5 Things You Can Do If People Find Out You’re A Prepper

Rich M.
By Rich M. December 6, 2019 08:13

5 Things You Can Do If People Find Out You’re A Prepper

You’re a prepper and I’m sure you’re doing everything you can to make sure that your family will be safe when and if a disaster strikes. Part of that is doing everything you can to maintain OPSEC, so that nobody knows what you’re really doing. After all, you don’t want people showing up at your front door when everything goes to pot.

I always wonder though; how much are we fooling ourselves, thinking that our friends, family and neighbors don’t have any idea of what we’re doing? Every neighborhood seems to have at least one nosy neighbor, who knows everything that everyone is doing. As for family and friends, they come into our homes, where they can see what we’re doing. I don’t know about you, but I haven’t been all that successful in keeping my preps a secret from them, no matter how I try to hide things.

The other problem with those people is that we talk to them regularly. That usually means that we talk about things we’re interested in. Chances are, we’ve let something slip, without even knowing it, which will indicate to someone paying attention that we’re prepping. I know I have and I’ve also had others do it with me, accidentally letting me know what they’re doing, without saying so directly.

Ok, so when they do find out, what can we do about it? While there are those whom we all might want to eliminate, that’s not that good an idea. It’s always hard to get rid of the bodies. Then there’s the chances of getting caught. But even if you manage to get rid of the body and don’t get caught, you’ve got to live with your actions. That can be an even worst punishment than jail time.

We’re going to have to limit ourselves to more practical answers.

Related: 25 Things We Did as Kids That Would Get Someone Arrested Today

The First Step

The first thing that any of us have to do, the moment we realize that one of our friends or family members realizes that we are preppers, is to talk to them about it. Waiting to have such a talk just gives them the opportunity to spread the word around about what you’re doing. That’s something you definitely don’t want them to do.

Somewhere in that conversation, they’re probably going to say “If the SHTF, I’ll just come over to your place.” That’s actually something you want them to say, as it gives you the opportunity to dissuade them from that option. This is where you can make it clear to them that you don’t have enough food and other supplies, let alone room in your home, to take care of your family and theirs too. Ask them the question, “Do you think I should allow my family to starve, so that I can feed yours, just because you didn’t prepare?”

The thing you absolutely have to do here is dissuade the idea that it’s your responsibility to provide for them, just because they aren’t doing so for themselves. Hopefully, this will lead to talking about what they can do for themselves, so that they don’t need your help. Ultimately, that’s the best… for them and for you.

As Far As Neighbors Go

Of course, not everyone is going to know for sure what you’re up to. That nosy neighbor who is always asking about what you’re doing may not really realize what you’re doing, even though they act like they do. More than anything, these people are digging for information, hoping they can uncover something interesting.

The solution I’ve developed for these people is to misdirect their attention, while making them think I’ve answered them. But those answers, while plausible, won’t stand the test of close scrutiny; at least, not all together. Even so, I’ve managed to convince my neighbors that I’m a bit of an eccentric, sort of the neighborhood mad scientist. So, whether I’m building a new wind turbine or experimenting with hydroponics, they’re not surprised.

With this reputation, I’m able to explain away lots of different projects as nothing more than part of the experimentation that I enjoy doing. They don’t explore the idea of my being a prepper, because they already have a plausible explanation for everything I do.

Switch on Recruitment Mode

That explanation doesn’t work for everyone, especially for those who have been in my home. All it takes is someone seeing one of my several storage areas, and they realize that I’ve got more food than anyone needs for normal use and even for short-term emergencies, like a hurricane.

Once I’ve dissuaded these people from the idea that I’m going to allow them to move in, like kids returning from college, and start eating up my food, I switch over to recruitment mode. Since the best possible solution is for them to become preppers themselves, I try to steer them in that direction. Of course, that usually means having to overcome a lot of objections, especially the ones about them not being able to afford it.

I’m not sure how they think that my making sacrifices so that I can afford to prep is acceptable, even to the point of them taking advantage of my preps, when their own sacrifice is not acceptable. But that’s a common thread I see over and over again. The only real answer is the cold hard truth.

Of course, once I convince them to start, I am able to tell them they have a huge advantage over me; that of having me there to mentor them and steer them in the right direction. At least I can help them save money on their prepping, keeping them from wasting it doing the wrong thing.

Should I Help Them?

No matter how hard you try to convince people to become preppers, not everyone will go along. There will always be some who are convinced you are nuts, or just don’t want to face reality. In that case, you have to make a decision what you’re going to do about them. Your choices are to not open the door for them when they show up for help, or to cave and let them in.

Like every other prepper out there, I say that I’m not going to open the door. But I know myself better than that. When someone I know shows up at my door with hungry children, I’m not going to be able to reject them; so I plan for them. I have several hundred extra pounds of rice, beans and oil in my stockpile, which is earmarked for giving to others when they knock on my door. Granted, that’s not as good as I’ll be eating; but at least it will keep them going. I’ll add veggies from my garden to that, if I have enough to spare.

As part of this, I also keep a very large stockpile of seeds. The idea is when they come looking for help, I’ll provide some temporary food to them, in the form of rice and beans, so that they have something to eat while they are waiting for their garden to grow. They’ll “pay” me for the food and seed by providing some sort of labor to me in trade.

I’ll help then with the garden too, providing instruction and the use of tools, including a roto-tiller that I bought just for that purpose. While this is an expense for me and my family, it’s a whole lot better than allowing them to move in and eat off my stockpile.

Possibly the Most Important Thing

If you can, you might want to consider moving as much of your preps to a remote location, as possible. I’m talking about a bug out location here; someplace you will plan on relocating to, should a disaster happen.

I realize that not everyone can do that. In fact, I’d have to say that most of us can’t. We just don’t have enough money to buy such a place. But if you can, bugging out eliminates all the problems of those people showing up at your door. They might still show up, but you won’t be there to answer them; nor will all the supplies they’re hoping to talk you out of.

So, what do you do with those people? Do you have another way of dealing with the people who find out about your preps? If so, please share it with us. Perhaps it will work for someone else too.

You may also like:

Bug Out Vehicles – Why Most People Get it Wrong

If You Are Too Weak To Prep Then You Need To Watch This (Video)

24 Prepping Items I Don’t Spend Money On

Are you a Community Member or a Lone Wolf Survivalist?

Was Your Grandfather a Prepper?

Do Seeds Really Expire?

Please Spread The Word - Share This Post
Rich M.
By Rich M. December 6, 2019 08:13
Write a comment

184 Comments

  1. Lancinator December 6, 15:39

    Sadly, I completely stopped trying to recruit anyone else in my neighbourhood. The three times I tried, I got, you guessed it “Well, I know where I’m going if anything bad happens. Stock up on food and supplies in case something bad happens? That’s hilarious!”

    The three neighbours that I spoke to about this years ago have moved away since then, and now I keep my preps very quiet. It’s disappointing and rather surprising that otherwise nice people can’t conceive of a situation where the government can’t swoop in and rescue them.

    I like the idea of a donatable stash of inexpensive bulk food like beans. It’s insane to expect me to let my kids starve to feed yours, but no one wants to watch the neighbours starve just because they failed to prepare. The problem, of course, will be when all the neighbours are gossiping about how hungry they are since the stores ran out of food and the neighbour you so kindly helped lets slip that you passed him some food and seem to have plenty. Sure you could tell them never to tell anyone or they’re cut off, but will they stick to it when they’re watching THEIR neighbour’s kids starve?

    Sigh. Aside from moving to the middle of nowhere, I’m not sure if there’s a great solution. Even if you keep it totally quiet, the fact that your family isn’t skin and bones after the first month will become a flashpoint. I’d do anything to protect my kids, and I wouldn’t expect any less of anyone else. I have weapons to protect what I have, of course, unlike most of my neighbours, but that’s not a great solution either. When people get desperate, I’d expect them to burn you out just out of spite if nothing else.

    As a great quote from “The Disaster Diaries” said: “Preparing for the end of the world is like being a parent – at some point, you have to let go. You can’t control everything, you can’t live in the bunker, you can’t refuse to ever let your daughter go on a date. At some point when you’ve done your best, you have to get on with your life and trust the universe not to fuck you.”

    ‘Nuff said

    42
    Reply to this comment
    • Big Rob December 6, 16:47

      The other problem you can have during a long SHTF scenario is if you and your family look Fed and well hydrated. This will easily alert others you have resources. You have to avoid being seen or you WILL have a serious problem from someone who see you look healthy.

      17
      Reply to this comment
      • red December 7, 02:07

        Rob, there’s cheap makeup that can make you look starved. A little darker under the eyes makes them look hollow. Dark, older clothes, wrinkled, maybe a little dirty. Don’t shave much, but try to keep a 5 o’clock shadow. Maintain a slightly vacant look, as if distracted. If you’ve ever fasted, you know how you looked, how you felt. Like Teddy R said, walk softly and carry a big stick. Look it up online, how to apply makeup as they do on movies.

        I live in a town where it seems every 3rd person is a prepper, and you know most of the rest are. People are planting fruit trees and mesquite, cactus and chiltepin (wild peppers), not much flowers anymore because i talk hidden gardens.

        Instead of a lawn, clover because of eatable greens and roots. Canna lily for roots, shoots, and seeds. Dalias, believe it or not, as still grown by Indians for the roots (ahipa root) and flowers. wild onions like sago and ajo for ‘them purty flowers’ and tasty bulbs. Ricegrass and wild tepary beans are both ornamental and good eating, and solidly drought resistant. Yeah, we’re planting a lot of ‘purty’ flowers these days. Mesquite and olives make both windbreaks and repel the average burglar. Most cactus produces food and can repel even eager invaders. hackberry bushes, goji bushes, and so on, all make food and have wicked thorns. Yucca and Spanish dagger will grow under the eves of a house anywhere but Zone 3.

        If all else fails, make chalk outlines, like cops do around a body on the sidewalk, then dribble bright red paint over that 🙂 niio

        14
        Reply to this comment
        • Miss Kitty December 7, 13:50

          Blood goes to more of a dark red once it’s dried… I’d go with maroon or barn red. 🙂

          I’ve got a space issue as far as storage, so I have a shelving unit by my kitchen. We recently had county inspectors come in to make sure that smoke detectors were working, hot water was at the proper temperature, no leaking from the ceiling, etc. I sort of hovered, trying to block their view. Don’t know if it worked, but I need to move some of my stash because I have friends coming over later in the month for the holidays. I trust them up to a point, but I don’t know if they will blab to the wrong person.

          If anyone questions my stash, I tell them that I stock up for the bad winter weather so I don’t have to go shopping and I shop the sales. “Can’t pass up a good bargain!”

          14
          Reply to this comment
          • TheSouthernNationalist December 7, 16:44

            @Miss Kitty, you said county inspectors entered your home? Is it an apartment building or a house?
            If you have a choice I wouldn’t anyone inside my home.

            Reply to this comment
            • Miss Kitty December 10, 14:11

              I’m in a public housing apartment, so “no” isn’t an option. 99% of my “larder” has been gleaned from food pantries, so most is off brand. Yep, I’m broke due to a combination of underemployment, family health issues and waiting too long to apply for assistance because of false pride and subsequently working for years only to line the pockets of my landlord ($1000-1250 per month for a two-bedroom apartment…plus utilities).

              Due to state (Massachusetts) housing requirements, inspections are required a couple of times a year. I don’t mind it, really, but this month has been hectic as I’m trying to make some craft items to sell at a craft fair this week.
              The way I look at it, it gives me motivation to stay picked up! 🙂

              Reply to this comment
              • Sparky December 12, 06:38

                Miss Kitty, look up Calamity Janet. She’s a pretty hard-core prepper and she has a page written in easily understandable verbiage. And she’s quite hilarious 🙂 she has some ideas that you might be able to use.

                Reply to this comment
                • Miss Kitty December 12, 15:23

                  I plan to peruse the site later; I’ve gone ahead and bookmarked it. It looks interesting.

                  Reply to this comment
                • Smurphette423 December 12, 20:21

                  Thanks for referring Calamity Janet. I went to her website and was not disappointed. Very informative and I got some great ideas. I’m disabled and living in a small mobile with limited space as Miss Kitty. Never would of thought of stockpiling under the beds as Calamity. The only thing I was disappointed about is she no longer writes her blogs. But will definitely bookmark and put a lot of her tips into practice. Thank you again!

                  Reply to this comment
                  • The Ohio Prepper December 13, 13:03

                    Smurphette423,

                    Never would of thought of stockpiling under the beds as Calamity.

                    Don’t forget the floor or the overhead shelves or rack in your closets.
                    I have friends who have cases of #10 cans as I do, with 6 cans to a case. I have an unused spare bedroom where I stored them; but, lacking space, they stack them several high in the living room between chairs like you would a step end table. Covered with a nice towel or cloth with a lamp sitting on it, you would never know it’s not just another table. Save space and hide in plain sight.

                    Reply to this comment
                • Gentlhart December 21, 21:00

                  I haven’t read through all of the comments but know one has mentioned of one way of getting it known that you’re a preper, your kids. You might think you can trust them but I think the odds are that they will tell their friends who they think they trust.

                  Reply to this comment
                  • red December 24, 03:19

                    YES! Kids love to be loved and respected. they get chatty. So, never say you’re a prepper. None of ours realized were were till they got older and could be trusted. Teachers will still try to worm information out of students and can report that in the family file. I remember when in the 6th grade, a teach asked each of us if we were poor, middleclass, or wealthy. Trusting her, I asked my parents. Both got very angry. Dad said, tell her lower middleclass and upper poverty. Later, when in my teens, I was told it was used to find tax cheats. any kid who claimed to be well-to-do while their parents claimed they were not got their parents investigated by the state. It comes and goes. Sometime subtle, sometimes openly, but liberals are always eager to turn children into informants. niio

                    Reply to this comment
          • red December 8, 05:29

            5 gallon bucket of rusty nails, cover with homemade vinegar, let it sit all winter. Add soot and oil, warm somewhere if it exploded, you can get away. Paint raw lumber. Comes out red.

            No, bright red is best because it looks fresh. 🙂

            Same here. I hate to shop, but love those bargains. dried beans, lentils, and peas get very hard after a while but make good flour. Mix bean flour with oat flour, it tastes about like wheat flour, but no gluten. Add 1/4 corn starch (which should last for years, so long as the bag stays sealed) and it makes pancakes and noodles.

            Stashed goods. What cover is on the inner walls? If paneling, great! Remove it, lines spaces between uprights with copper. this is important! Copper kills rodents and insects, molds bacteria, viral infections, and so on. Make bins that fit inside them, recover them with the paneling. Bay leaves deter insects like weevils and millers. CO2 is even better, if you can stop it from leaking. If wall board, that can be removed a little at a time and replaced with cheap plywood, just paint over it, or paneling. Pappy built Nana a house on the farm and they did this to hide what little gold they had from their bathtub gin sales, and in the basement, he cut into bedrock a space big enough to hide the still and any deer he took–AKA speed beef. Then, you had to report deer damage. He put in a couple of acres of orchard and the deer killed every tree, and destroyed much in the fields.

            Fresh is best, especially to send a message to raiders. This is from a Texas rodeo bull rider, who liked to sleep in Sunday mornings and get over a hangover. 🙂 niio

            Reply to this comment
            • Hawthorn February 1, 17:15

              Hey red, how long ago did you ride? Ever meet Chris Ledoux???

              Reply to this comment
              • red February 2, 03:49

                Me? Lady, I eat cattle, not ride them. Well, the calves when I was a kid, and my pet milk cow. Not since I grew up and grew a few brain cells. Rides were all on horses, and they were playing to stretch their muscles, not playing toss the boss. Last nag I had a problem with was an Appaloosa in Colorado. He liked to bounce. One up past Phoenix, on the old McClusky place, ran me into a fence post back in the 80s. He made a good crutch to get to the shack. When it healed, I started to drive truck. I couldn’t climb in the saddle anymore. the other knee cap got wrecked in the Army, so, erk. niio

                Reply to this comment
          • Govtgirl June 27, 11:45

            Now is the perfect time to put some of these people off the scent. Everyone laid in more stuff than usual because the supply chain has been spotty. So, asking for a recipe to use up some of that whatever you bought too much of due to the virus is one way. If there are any neighborhood get togethers where you are, you can bring a dish and comment that you’re using up all the stuff you bought– well, you get the idea.

            Reply to this comment
    • Armin December 6, 22:59

      You make some very good points, Lancinator. There is no easy solution. I don’t think we can ever move far enough away that we’ll be 100% safe. In my case have no choice but to bug in. If society as a whole ever does go down for let’s say even months or years it will be horrible beyond imagining. We’ve never experienced anything like the end of the world. There really is no way to prepare for it. The aftermath will be gruesome.

      Reply to this comment
      • The Ohio Prepper December 7, 17:49

        Armin,

        There is no easy solution. I don’t think we can ever move far enough away that we’ll be 100% safe.

        In our daily lives we’re never 100% safe ;but, we still do what we can, carefully running our day to day lives as best we can.
        Nearly 1.25 million people die in vehicle crashes each year or about 3,300 deaths a day. Additionally, 20-50 million are injured or disabled.
        Statistics like this demonstrate that life has real potential hazards; but, those hazards generally do not stop us from traveling or living our lives, or compel us to stay home and hide.
        For those that choose the shut in option, be advised that in reality, thousands of people died from home accidents in 2017 (the last year with good statistics). Those hazards can include falls, minor burns, poisonings, electrical shocks, suffocation, and other household accidents, so there are no truly safe places.
        The one thing we do to avoid these kinds of accidents is to slow down and take our time when doing things, since often getting in a hurry or taking shortcuts, like standing on a chair instead of getting that step ladder can lead to problems.
        The Pennsylvania Dutch have a maxim that applies here: ”The hurrier I go, the behinder I get”

        In my case have no choice but to bug in.

        That is what we’ll be doing, since we’ve been on this property with that end goal for 35 years, and would not even think of trying to carry enough gear to make a difference someplace else.

        If society as a whole ever does go down for let’s say even months or years it will be horrible beyond imagining. We’ve never experienced anything like the end of the world. There really is no way to prepare for it. The aftermath will be gruesome.

        Actually we have experienced something like the end of the world on a global scale. During the great depression and the following WW II, resources were scarce and goods were rationed, so even city people had their victory gardens and nothing was wasted.
        While you cannot completely prepare for it, you can develop the skills, resources, and relationships to live without society’s infrastructure for as long as possible.
        It will not be pretty; but, one only has to survive until recovery, that historically always happens, short of a nuclear weapon or asteroid strike.

        Reply to this comment
        • Armin December 8, 04:10

          You make some very good points, Ohio. I agree that we can never be 100% safe no matter what or where. There are a lot of assholes out there. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I should have been more clear. What I’m talking about here is the actual end of the world as we know it. A catastrophe so severe that perhaps 99% of us will die in the end. There is no way in hell we can prepare for that. And if you think you can, then you’re just fooling yourself. No disrespect intended. In reality what we’re preparing for here on these pages are relatively short-term disasters such as hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, etc. As bad as the Great Depression was and the two so-called world wars were they do not fit the definition of a true catastrophic GLOBAL extended grid down scenario that may go on for years or even decades. Can you imagine if suddenly the WHOLE world was thrown back into a pre-industrial society and there are seven BILLION of us fighting tooth and nail for survival? For whatever scraps we can find or steal? I can’t. That is beyond our imagining. It’s beyond mine. It’s never happened since the end of the last ice age. And that was only one ice age of many. And that was only 10 or 12 thousand years ago. A blink of the eye in the lifetime of this planet. And yes we did manage to survive but there wouldn’t have been many of us left. And now there are too many. And that’s when civilization started to re-establish itself. And I’m in no way criticizing or judging you, Ohio, but I don’t think any of us can imagine the scope of the carnage that would ensue if a true global disaster happened that would involve EVERY country and EVERY person on the face of this planet. What’s happened up to this point should actually be looked at as regional conflicts even as bad as they were. And still going on today. We haven’t had true peace since the end of WWII. We here in North America were mostly insulated from the horrors and damage and death inflicted in the last great war. Those in Asia and Europe weren’t.

          Reply to this comment
          • The Ohio Prepper December 8, 16:22

            Armin,

            You make some very good points, Ohio. I agree that we can never be 100% safe no matter what or where. There are a lot of assholes out there. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I should have been more clear. What I’m talking about here is the actual end of the world as we know it.

            That EOTWAWKI comes in many forms, and could be as simple as a layoff from a job or diagnosis of some horrible disease; however, I suspect you mean EOTWAWKI in a global or national sense, with the ”W” meaning WE as in all of us on the planet in which case the event would present a real challenge.

            A catastrophe so severe that perhaps 99% of us will die in the end. There is no way in hell we can prepare for that. And if you think you can, then you’re just fooling yourself. No disrespect intended.

            Depending on the event and how it affected you and yours directly would I think mean a lot, and currently I cannot think of such an event, short of an asteroid strike; but, current sky surveys show us to be safe, at least for the foreseeable future. Keep in mind that the last one of these, with a rock large enough to be an ELE happened 66 million years ago called the Iridium / (CT) Cretaceous–Tertiary (K–T) extinction, a sudden mass extinction of ¾ of the plant and animal species on Earth, so even that did not hot 99%.
            The ”Ice Ages” began 2.4 million years ago and lasted until 11,500 years ago. During this time, the earth’s climate repeatedly changed between very cold periods, during which glaciers covered large parts of the world, and very warm periods during which many of the glaciers melted.
            Early modern humans also survived this event.

            The next event that comes close would be ”The Little Ice Age”, a period between about 1300 and 1870 during which Europe and North America were subjected to much colder winters than during the 20th century.
            While it was unpleasant, we also survived this event.

            From my research, this might be the more likely scenario; but, will probably not bring down the grid. I’ve been recently rereading ” Dark Winter: How the Sun Is Causing a 30-Year Cold Spell” by John L. Casey, a former White House national space policy advisor, NASA headquarters consultant, and space shuttle engineer who documents the ominous changes taking place in the climate and the Sun, with the sun having a big influence. One potentially good thing about this kind of event, is that it would finally put the last nail in the coffin of Global Warming, and we could then start burning the coal and natural gas we have in abundance.

            In reality what we’re preparing for here on these pages are relatively short-term disasters such as hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, etc. As bad as the Great Depression was and the two so-called world wars were they do not fit the definition of a true catastrophic GLOBAL extended grid down scenario that may go on for years or even decades.

            I guess that could be so in a hypothetical thought experiment; but, don’t see anything like a GLOBAL extended grid down, even being possible. What could be a causal trigger event that massive?

            Can you imagine if suddenly the WHOLE world was thrown back into a pre-industrial society and there are seven BILLION of us fighting tooth and nail for survival? For whatever scraps we can find or steal?

            Yes; but, only in a science fiction story like S. M. Stirling’s ”Dies the Fire” where all technology simply stops working globally. The problem is that I can think of only one causal event to cause such a thing, a GRB (Gamma Ray Burst) that would likely sterilize the planet and make any prepping moot.

            I can’t. That is beyond our imagining. It’s beyond mine. It’s never happened since the end of the last ice age. And that was only one ice age of many. And that was only 10 or 12 thousand years ago. A blink of the eye in the lifetime of this planet. And yes we did manage to survive but there wouldn’t have been many of us left.

            As I already stated: “The Ice Ages began 2.4 million years ago and lasted until 11,500 years ago” and we not only survived, we thrived, using ancient technology made only of stone and animal furs. I think modern materials, construction and insulation techniques could well get us through another period like this; however, those in the southern climes like Florida, might be a bit uncomfortable.

            And now there are too many. And that’s when civilization started to re-establish itself. And I’m in no way criticizing or judging you, Ohio, but I don’t think any of us can imagine the scope of the carnage that would ensue if a true global disaster happened that would involve EVERY country and EVERY person on the face of this planet.

            As both an engineer and a student of history, I can envision such a chaotic world, I just cannot envision it happening, since an event large enough to start such an era, would likely eliminate much of the population up front, and other than that GRB or asteroid strike, I can think of no such trigger events.

            What’s happened up to this point should actually be looked at as regional conflicts even as bad as they were. And still going on today. We haven’t had true peace since the end of WWII. We here in North America were mostly insulated from the horrors and damage and death inflicted in the last great war.

            I agree and we should be thankful for those large ponds bordering each coast of our country for that insulation; but, you will recall that Europe and part of Asia haven’t had true peace since long before WW II & WW I.

            Those in Asia and Europe weren’t.

            That’s because they had no large ponds (save for the English Channel).

            Reply to this comment
            • Armin December 9, 18:11

              That EXACTLY what I’m talking about, Ohio. The end of the world is the end of the world and by definition it WOULD involve everyone on the planet. That is the end of the world as we know it not just N. America. To think that N. America is the be all and end all of everything is very short sighted and perhaps even a bit myopic. I don’t know how it would start or by what means. I can see there being water wars in the near future. If for some reason the entire GLOBAL electrical grid would go down then even that one event would cause so much chaos, especially here in N. America and Europe, that everyone would be scrabbling for survival. And we would be thrown back to a pre-industrial society. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a true global war that would bring us down but even just the whole electrical grid going down. The WHOLE GLOBAL grid. Don’t know how it would happen but it’s possible. Not just here in N. America but worldwide. Because we’re basically living in a prosperity bubble here in N. America we sometimes forget that millions of people aren’t quite as well off as we are. We’re very lucky to be here. We shouldn’t take that for granted and we should be thankful every day for all that we have. Just look at the example of Venezuela and the hardships that have been imposed upon the people there when their economy imploded and the banks closed their doors. And that was just one relatively small economy. On these pages, here, we’ve talked to death about what would happen if we had no more electricity. Just imagine. Everything would stop. No more water would be pumped. No more natural gas would be pumped through the pipes to heat our homes. No more petrol to run the cars. No more computers or internet and on and on and on. We’re completely dependent on electricity to run everything. I don’t think any of us can know what form the next great catastrophe will take. My opinion is that the next great world altering event will be an economic downturn of such magnitude that it would make the last Great Depression seem like a cakewalk. The whole system now is a house of cards and it wouldn’t take much of a breeze to collapse it. That’s all they need to do to mess us up completely. Just close down the banks and the ATM’s so that we don’t have access to our money anymore. It’s just numbers on a screen these days anyways. You sound like a smart person, Ohio. So you must be aware of some basic things. We’ve been controlled by the banks since the goldsmiths of the 16th century “discovered” fractional reserve banking. What a scam that is and they’re still doing it to this day. Just do your own research and you’ll find out that what I say is true. I don’t expect you to believe anything I say just do your own research. It’s the banks that hold the true power. They expand the money supply and we have prosperity. They contract the money supply and call in all their loans and we have a recession or a depression. And they can do this at their whim anytime. In reality the banks are responsible for all the woes on the planet. Especially the wars. Our money these days isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. The creation of the FED in 1913 was the greatest evil ever imposed upon the people of the United States. It’s sole purpose was to keep Americans in perpetual debt and make eternal debt slaves of the people of the United States. The FED works by means of the Mandrake mechanism. The FED (and remember it’s a private institution not a government agency!!!) loans money to the United States (which is a corporation) at interest and this “loan” keeps increasing and can never be paid off in full. The system was deliberately set up to fail at some point. It’s inevitable. And I think THAT’S what we’re really preparing for even though most of us may not realize it. Those of us that have this feeling of great unease know that we have to prepare for something but maybe not quite sure what form it will take. Henry Ford once said that if people truly realized how the money system really works they would rise up en masse and string all those bastards up. Even though the United States is the largest single economy on the planet and its GDP is pretty close to 20 TRILLION its debt is more than its GDP. So its debt to GDP ratio is MORE than one. And this can’t keep up forever. Even up here in Canada the people are becoming stupid as shit and their debt to income ratio is pretty close to 1:80 so that for every dollar they earn they have to pay another 80 cents or so to try and pay their debt down. That’s a fool’s game and can’t keep on going forever. Defaults are on the rise in Canada and at some point will become so prevalent that it will have a very negative effect on our national economy. We’re living on borrowed time and at some point all the markers will be called in. Again, only my humble opinion, but I think the tipping point will come when the global population exceeds the capacity of the planet to support it. Even now Earth Overshoot Day is happening earlier and earlier each year. In 2019 it was July 29th. Next year it will be earlier. What should be a wake up call for us all is that by July 29th, we used up all the planetary regenerative resources of 2019. From July 30 we started to consume more resources than the planet can regenerate in a year. It’s EXTREMELY serious. It’s a global emergency. More so than this bogus climate change bullshit. Yes, I obviously realize there IS something happening with our climate but I don’t think WE’RE the primary cause of it. Just in case, keep your winter clothing handy as some have forecast that shortly we could be entering a super grand solar minimum lasting a hundred years or more. Does anyone really know for sure? I don’t know but anything is possible. My winter clothing is close at hand. If any of you want to take the time to learn more about it please go to this link. It’s about a 90 minute video. Professor Valentina Zharkova. A solar physicist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yqIj38UmY Right now there are more than 7 BILLION of us. They forecast that by 2050 there will be more than 9 BILLION of us and then it will really be a case of supply and demand. Everything will become horrendously expensive. Especially food. Those of us that have a few acres at that point and the knowledge to grow their own food will be the lucky ones. The rest of us will have to learn to subsist on Frankenfoods. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

              Reply to this comment
              • The Ohio Prepper December 11, 12:07

                Armin,
                First of all, try hitting the enter key on occasion, since the single stream of thought paragraph is a bit hard to read. LOL
                However when I did this I got errors, so I’m breaking up the post/

                That EXACTLY what I’m talking about, Ohio. The end of the world is the end of the world and by definition it WOULD involve everyone on the planet.

                By who’s definition?
                I’ve been living this lifestyle for nearly50 years, and the AWKI (As We Know It) is nearly always a personal event, like a job loss, accident, health crisis, or local or regional disaster. Ever since the KT extinction event, nothing like your definition has yet occurred.

                To Be Continued

                Reply to this comment
                • The Ohio Prepper December 11, 12:09

                  That is the end of the world as we know it not just N. America. To think that N. America is the be all and end all of everything is very short sighted and perhaps even a bit myopic.

                  By N America do you mean just the United States & Canada or all of the America’s, north, south, and central, since they are all connected and travel between them relatively easy?
                  Anything affecting that large a region would indeed be catastrophic; but, other than a few unlikely events, I suspect we as a race (homo sapiens) are safe.

                  I don’t know how it would start or by what means.

                  In which case only general preparedness plans mean anything.
                  I not only do not know the means; but, cannot think of any with those widespread effects that would not sterilize the planet, with only large asteroid strike and GRB coming to mind.

                  To Be continued

                  Reply to this comment
                  • The Ohio Prepper December 11, 16:23

                    I can see there being water wars in the near future.

                    Perhaps; but, only in the arid places, meaning those of us with plenty of water will have a commodity to sell, like we do with petroleum, or precious metals. There have however already been some people out west looking at pipelines from the great lakes; bit, since they chose to live in a hot desert, I think they should have to live with their choices.

                    Those living along the ocean borders will have to use desalination; but, could produce plenty, assuming they properly recycle their effluent.

                    If for some reason the entire GLOBAL electrical grid would go down then even that one event would cause so much chaos, especially here in N. America and Europe, that everyone would be scrabbling for survival.

                    What few were left alive might be doing that; but, I can still think of no causal action that would do that kind of global damage and not wipe out most of the worlds population in the process.
                    Can you? If you can, how about an example; however, if not, it’s a moot point.

                    And we would be thrown back to a pre-industrial society. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a true global war that would bring us down but even just the whole electrical grid going down. The WHOLE GLOBAL grid.

                    How did war even enter the conversation and for The WHOLE GLOBAL grid we are again back to science fiction or an ELE catastrophe.

                    Don’t know how it would happen but it’s possible.

                    It’s only possible as a thought experiment or in science fiction & fantasy stories at least while leaving any population intact after the event.

                    Not just here in N. America but worldwide. Because we’re basically living in a prosperity bubble here in N. America we sometimes forget that millions of people aren’t quite as well off as we are.

                    Our so called prosperity bubble has pretty much lasted for more than 2 centuries is the result of a system that encourages people to excel and allows them to succeed or fail on their own merits. My wife and I are prosperous and are not in any bubble; but, worked hard for 50 years to be here, with no excuses and few luxuries
                    I never forget about those less well off than me & mine; but, as for regions with problems, they are nearly always the result of socialist or dictatorial governments, where I guarantee the leaders miss no meals. This of course includes some states in the US.

                    We’re very lucky to be here. We shouldn’t take that for granted and we should be thankful every day for all that we have.

                    I was lucky in many ways. I was born in the USA to parents who expected me and my siblings to always do our best and strive for the dreams we had. I was able to attend college and get engineering degrees that allowed me to work more than 40 years, doing something I loved and getting paid good money to do it, and all that I have, or at least most of it was earned by taking chances & hard work.

                    Just look at the example of Venezuela and the hardships that have been imposed upon the people there when their economy imploded and the banks closed their doors.

                    When their economy imploded?
                    I think you have the causal events reversed.
                    You do realize that they had one of the best economies in South America with nearly unlimited oil revenues, until someone like Bernie Sanders took over and forced histories most failed ideas on them, don’t you?
                    The late Hugo Chávez and his follow on lackey and former bus driver Nicolás Maduro have with the help of Cuba, systematically pillaged and destroyed that country. The economic collapse only came after their mismanagement of the economy and theft for their own use.
                    It’s hard to believe that these same old failed ideas are actually being seriously considered here in the US.

                    On these pages, here, we’ve talked to death about what would happen if we had no more electricity. Just imagine. Everything would stop.

                    Everything would stop? Perhaps in the cities; but, here in rural America where those kind of events often happen, we could carry on. It would be inconvenient; but, as always we could struggle through with our backups.

                    No more water would be pumped.

                    In the cities maybe; but, out here, most of us have backup means or enough electricity to run the pumps, or ways to pump or collect water by hand.

                    No more natural gas would be pumped through the pipes to heat our homes.

                    Not necessarily, since a lot of those pumps run on engines powered by some of that same natural gas; however, some of the pipeline controls might have to be manually operated.

                    Out here of course we have no natural gas and would use the stored propane. If we used that propane only to run the generator and water heater, and switched back to wood for home heating, we could manage pretty well for up to 7 years in what we call austerity mode. Generator running 2 hours per day to keep refrigeration running, pump enough water for a day’s use, and charge battery banks for lighting & communications. We have planned all of this and other scenarios out; but, of course hope to never really need them.

                    To Be Continued

                    Reply to this comment
                    • The Ohio Prepper December 11, 20:13

                      No more petrol to run the cars.
                      No more computers or internet and on and on and on.

                      My computers would still work quite well, and while global internet would disappear, our local voice & digital comms would run like normal, which is why they are there and well maintained. I can communicate with all of my surrounding counties and on occasions all around the world.

                      We’re completely dependent on electricity to run everything. I don’t think any of us can know what form the next great catastrophe will take. My opinion is that the next great world altering event will be an economic downturn of such magnitude that it would make the last Great Depression seem like a cakewalk.

                      Economics could be a problem; but, for now, at least in the US< the economy is doing quite well, and we are taking advantage of that fact, stocking up on items that post SHTF would be valuable commodities, like TP with our current stock around 300 rolls and growing.

                      The whole system now is a house of cards and it wouldn’t take much of a breeze to collapse it.

                      Really.. Could you elaborate and explain your assertion?

                      That’s all they need to do to mess us up completely. Just close down the banks and the ATM’s so that we don’t have access to our money anymore.

                      1st of all, who pray tell are ”they? Keep in mind also that if the system collapses, ”they” get caught up in it with everyone else.
                      Unless you’re a suicide bomber, burning down the building you are in makes no sense, and I suspect “they” are not willing to make that sacrifice, just to get back at little old us.

                      It’s just numbers on a screen these days anyways. You sound like a smart person, Ohio. So you must be aware of some basic things. We’ve been controlled by the banks since the goldsmiths of the 16th century “discovered” fractional reserve banking. What a scam that is and they’re still doing it to this day.

                      “discovered” fractional reserve banking?
                      You of course mean invented it.
                      My late brother was an economy major, as well as history and political science, who told me you needed to know all of them to understand any of them.
                      We had long discussions on FRB and the Federal Reserve, and while they can both be problematic as anything can be, both have allowed us to expand the economy. The FRB rate for most banks is a reserve of 10% of deposits, so a bank with $1,000,000.00 in deposits holds $100,000.00 and can loan out $900,000.00. If they pay depositors 4% on the deposits, and charge borrowers 6% on loans they make 2% on the $900,000.00 or an $ 18,000.00 margin used to run their business and pay shareholders.

                      Do you have a better system than the one that’s been in used for centuries?
                      If so, can you explain it?

                      You also need to keep in mind what money of any sort really is and why it was invented.
                      Regardless of it’s form, from wampum, tulip bulbs, flint ridge flint, pieces of 8, pieces of paper, strokes on a clay tablet, or just numbers in a ledger or computer, all money is simply ”Liquid Barter”. We each exchange our work for a mark in the ledger, and accept movement of numbers (payment) from that ledger.
                      When someone needs a good or service you have; but, you don’t need the goods or services they have, barter becomes hard, looking for those who need those items that can act as an intermediary in the exchange.
                      This is true for nearly all vocations, so societies have set up Money (liquid barter) systems for millennia to make transactions between members easier to make, and of course, easier to tax. The means of exchange whether physical or simply recorded is the only difference.

                      Just do your own research and you’ll find out that what I say is true. I don’t expect you to believe anything I say just do your own research. It’s the banks that hold the true power. They expand the money supply and we have prosperity.

                      I don’t have to look it up since I’ve studied it for years both in college and beyond.
                      Actually the banks have to live within tight legal rules as well as natural laws of economics, since you really cannot fool Mother Nature, a reason we always see socialist economies collapse.

                      They contract the money supply and call in all their loans and we have a recession or a depression. And they can do this at their whim anytime. In reality the banks are responsible for all the woes on the planet. Especially the wars.

                      Can you give me an example of them calling in all of the loans and which wars they caused and how.

                      Both world wars and Vietnam had causal beginnings that involved centuries old antagonisms between old countries. Economics were a factor; but, I don’ think you can legitimately blame the banks.

                      Our money these days isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. The creation of the FED in 1913 was the greatest evil ever imposed upon the people of the United States. It’s sole purpose was to keep Americans in perpetual debt and make eternal debt slaves of the people of the United States.

                      Money has never been worth the paper it’s printed on and as for the Federal Reserve Bank, ”The creature from Jekyll Island” is integral in our economy. They are mostly apolitical, and attempt to manage the amount of liquidity and interest rates to achieve
                      1. Full employment
                      2. Stable Prices
                      3. Regulation of banks to protect consumers
                      4. Maintain the financial system with an inflation target and provide enough cash for liquidity
                      Imagine the US with no central bank, where politicians who haven’t had a balance budget since Newt Gingrich was speaker of the house in the 1990’s fully in charge of monetary policy, based not on economics; but, politics. To be honest I don’t know how many congresscritters even understand such things; but, putting them fully in charge would be disastrous.
                      As for being in perpetual debt, they seem to have failed with the wife and I, since our only debts (a vehicle loan and some medical bills) will be fully discharged within a few years.

                      The FED works by means of the Mandrake mechanism. The FED (and remember it’s a private institution not a government agency!!!) loans money to the United States (which is a corporation) at interest and this “loan” keeps increasing and can never be paid off in full. The system was deliberately set up to fail at some point. It’s inevitable. And I think THAT’S what we’re really preparing for even though most of us may not realize it.

                      As for being a private institution and not a government agency, that’s not only true; but, a good thing, since it uses economists and not politicians and it at least keeps an arm’s length from the politicians and their antics.
                      As for that inevitable failure, I don’t see it that way; but, if so, do you see anyone who benefits with a crash or afterward, since we would all be living in the rubble.

                      Those of us that have this feeling of great unease know that we have to prepare for something but maybe not quite sure what form it will take.

                      I’ve been preparing for most of my life, raised in a family that did the same;; but, the point is that bad things happen, and while we do not know when, where, what, or if, it’s till prudent to do this just as insurance.
                      Personally I don’t have a feeling of great unease or even little unease; but, maybe that’s because I’ve lived a prudent, frugal lifestyle most of my life and have resources, and skills that gives me optimism others may not have.
                      To Be Continued

                • Jo-Lyn December 12, 21:55

                  I sometimes get those types of errors too. When that happens I hold the shift key down at the same time I hit the enter key. Somehow forces a new line space/paragraph. Not always, but a lot 🙂

                  Reply to this comment
        • The Bailey December 8, 19:26

          “It will not be pretty; but, one only has to survive until recovery, that historically always happens, short of a nuclear weapon or asteroid strike.”

          Assuming the grid stays up. If the grid goes down, all bets are off.

          Reply to this comment
        • Miss Kitty December 15, 14:37

          LCC:
          People back during the Depression, even city dwellers, had the know-how to raise a garden, properly feed a wood stove or fireplace, often how to can and otherwise preserve foods, and more importantly, the mindset to deal with a reduction in infrastructure and services. If they themselves didn’t, there were family members and friends who likely did.

          More people either lived rurally or had ties to the farm, so if it were a breakdown of infrastructure, there was a place for them to go. And there were fewer people…we had just come from WWI and the Influenza epidemic as well as there being fewer people to start as the population explosion that we see now hadn’t taken place yet.

          The thing that concerns me is that so many people now have no clue how to live frugally, or be self reliant in the least. Add into the general ignorance of the sheeple the inevitable displacement of possibly thousands of people and things will get ugly fast.

          Add into that the breakdown of utilities and we’re looking at a hot mess. Basic survival skills simply are not mainstream enough for people to switch gears and cope with no electricity for extended periods, especially in winter since most heating systems depend on electricity at least in part. Water will be another issue…if you live in Manhattan, where do you go dig a well?

          It’s not just food shortages that will cause things to implode. It’s the Cascade effect.

          IMHO, the breakdown has already begun with the massive global crop failures due to flooding, fires, drought, pests, blights and disease. (I’m lumping the Chinese swine flu epidemic in here too.)
          It’s going to be a gradual slide at first, with prices increasing , smaller packages, shortages, (we’re seeing this now). Then scarcity, empty shelves, and people fainting in the street. Then, the government will start declaring “food hoarding” to be a crime and start raiding.

          Reply to this comment
          • red December 16, 00:34

            Miss Kitty: this is something that always made me wonder about NYCity. They bounce between leftist elitists like the creepy on who’s mayor now and very conservative. Conservatives forced the boros to join in and have free flowing water from the Adirondacks and beyond. If even one pipe is ruptured, water will still flow. Every park gets water to it from the pipes as an emergency source. All school children have to learn about farming and they even have farms in city limits. These are real farms, livestock and crops, and as long as they allow teachers and children to learn there, they’re tax-free. The city even has a cartoon series about a farmer and a monkey, Curious George, to help teach. People are encouraged to keep ‘pets’ like chickens and goats, even pigs. Private schools have adult courses in butchering and canning. Aquaponics is a major. Most people who are immigrants or even the grandchildren of immigrants want to be as independent as possible and understand government takes, not helps.

            Yes to what you say. But, the hording laws are all there, waiting to be used. Coke-Nose Clinton slid them in under the table because of the Y2K scare. They have every right to open a lockbox in any bank and take that, as well. If an elitist is in power, we get another banker’s holiday and any accounts can be confiscated. Not to fear, any money owed a banker will have to be repaid, just as FDR did it. They can also draft any person between the ages of 18-55 to be part of their work force. niio

            Reply to this comment
          • The Ohio Prepper December 18, 03:28

            Miss Kitty,

            People back during the Depression, even city dwellers, had the know-how to raise a garden, properly feed a wood stove or fireplace, often how to can and otherwise preserve foods, and more importantly, the mindset to deal with a reduction in infrastructure and services.

            Keep in mind that the self reliance mindset and skills were very important, since there was actually very little infrastructure, especially in the rural areas during that time frame. The REA (Rural Electrification Act) wasn’t enacted until late in the depression era (1936) and even city folk often lit their homes with candles, lanterns, and gas lights.
            Many used wood stoves; but, many also used coal stoves or furnaces.
            Growing up in the 1950’s & 60’s I had a friend whose house was heated with a coal fired boiler, and we learned how to bank the furnace and manage the clinkers.

            More people either lived rurally or had ties to the farm, so if it were a breakdown of infrastructure, there was a place for them to go. And there were fewer people…we had just come from WWI and the Influenza epidemic as well as there being fewer people to start as the population explosion that we see now hadn’t taken place yet.

            While the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918 was deadly, and killed as many as 50,000,000 worldwide, it did not seriously affect the US population with estimates of only about 675,000 from a population of 90-100 million.
            As for the population explosion, it has really been gradual, at least in the US with the following numbers over the last century.
            76,212,168 (1900)
            92,228,496 (1910)
            106,500,000 (1920)
            123,100,000 (1930)
            132,100,000 (1940)
            152,300,000 (1950)
            180,700,000 (1960)
            205,100,000 (1970)
            226,500,000 (1980)
            250,100,000 (1990)
            282,200,000 (2000)
            309,300,000 (2010)
            329,450,000 (2019 estimate)

            Of course the next census will be next year (2020), so we should get a better current umber.

            The thing that concerns me is that so many people now have no clue how to live frugally, or be self reliant in the least. Add into the general ignorance of the sheeple the inevitable displacement of possibly thousands of people and things will get ugly fast.

            I concur; but, don’t know about your displacement except for natural disasters like floods, fires, and hurricanes, that we already have and deal with.

            Add into that the breakdown of utilities and we’re looking at a hot mess.

            I agree; but, don’t think we’ll see this except on a regional or local basis.
            PG&E has rolling day long blackouts in the PDRK; but, here’ we have had no major interruptions in decades. We do have occasional power outages; but, they are short term and generally the result of a vehicle hitting a pole or something similar. If you live in a vulnerable place (and you know if you do), then you should take appropriate actions to mitigate your potential problems, or move to some place less vulnerable. We took this all into account years ago.

            Basic survival skills simply are not mainstream enough for people to switch gears and cope with no electricity for extended periods, especially in winter since most heating systems depend on electricity at least in part.

            I suspect you are correct; but, since I rarely interact with people from large urban areas, I really don’t know what they know.
            I do know that out here, even in our smaller urban areas, people often have wood heat at least as supplemental and many camp or hunt and have a modicum of skills and resources that would get them by.

            Water will be another issue…if you live in Manhattan, where do you go dig a well?

            If you live in Manhattan, you are IMHO screwed; but, that’s all of the time.
            I have visited there and I get claustrophobic.

            IMHO, the breakdown has already begun with the massive global crop failures due to flooding, fires, drought, pests, blights and disease. (I’m lumping the Chinese swine flu epidemic in here too.)

            Perhaps you are right for people in some regions; but, so far here we’ve seen no shortages or huge price increases.
            Here we still have storage bins full of grains, waiting for purchasers, so the regions in China and other 3rd world countries may have famine; but, they have always been in that situation, often due to over population and government mismanagement.
            As for the swine flu I think that’s been overplayed by a 24/7 media that has to find something to cover, and panic always catches more clicks and eyeballs than calm.

            It’s going to be a gradual slide at first, with prices increasing , smaller packages, shortages, (we’re seeing this now). Then scarcity, empty shelves, and people fainting in the street.

            We’re not seeing any of this here; but, once again I think it could be a regional thing, especially affecting large population centers with long logistic trails.
            For instance, Ohio’s capital city Columbus has a 2017 population of 879,170 and is surrounded for 50-100 miles by farms and other rural regions, so farm to store is a regular occurrence.
            NY City OTOH has nearly 10 times that many people @ 8,623,000
            And Chicago has about 3 times that population @ 2,716,000.
            So the logistics and sheer volume of foodstuffs required becomes exponentially harder to supply with the same for providing water and waste removal.

            Then, the government will start declaring “food hoarding” to be a crime and start raiding.

            Start raiding what?
            If you are Kroger, or Costco, or Meijer’s, Aldi’s, Sam’s Club, or a Wal-Mart warehouse, then you could be correct; but, the manpower and logistics involved for a door to door hunt for your few cans of beans and soup is just not going to happen.
            This confiscation (looting) could perhaps happen from roving hungry people who see you as an easy mark, so don’t be that easy mark.

            Reply to this comment
        • Govtgirl July 4, 09:39

          Hi, Ohio Prepper,
          Just read your post. There is a lot of wisdom there. When I was still working, a speaker came to our office. She said that when we try to do too much, we are going so fast we are on autopilot and that is when we forget something, drop the ball. We aren’t thinking. Told my sister that as she gets worried about Alzheimer’s every time she can’t think of a name. Isn’t it odd that slowing down a tad can make us more effective?

          Reply to this comment
    • Wannabe December 7, 21:17

      Lancinator, my immediate reply to that comment they know where to come when things get bad would be no you will not. If you are not willing to provide for your own then don’t expect for me to provide for them. Then simply walk away.

      Reply to this comment
      • The Ohio Prepper December 8, 12:37

        Wannabe,

        my immediate reply to that comment they know where to come when things get bad would be no you will not. If you are not willing to provide for your own then don’t expect for me to provide for them. Then simply walk away.

        While your preaching about their willingness to help themselves may work; what do you do when they show up at your place, kids in hand, begging?
        My response has always been an unspoken threat, saying something like:
        “Then you better come armed and ready to do battle, because we sure are.”
        The we is emphasized to let them know we are not alone.
        We also have wireless motion sensing alarms to give us notice of someone on the property, and extremely bright, solar powered LED motion sensing floodlights to give them notice at night, that they have been detected.
        Modern LED, solar, and battery technologies have produced inexpensive amazing devices for this kind of application. The ones we use cost about $25.00 for a pair.

        Reply to this comment
    • Jenn @ FrugalUpstate December 8, 13:20

      I live in a village-my plan is having extra beans/rice etc set aside that I will anonymously donate to our church. If folks need help I’ll be able to tell them that I heard my church has extra, and send them that way without compromising myself.

      Reply to this comment
  2. Thrifty-Grammy December 6, 15:49

    Well I will make the first comment! My husband and I are in our 70’s. He grew up farming and I have with him the past 41 years. We mainly lived off the land and worked hard farming with horses. We raised children on the farm, sold vegetables, meat and eggs and never made much money. But we ate well and the children thrived. We always had food ahead because we farmed and you don’t shop in the off seasons. We recently sold the old house a two acres and kept the rest of our land. We have gardens there and a cabin to stay in from Spring to Winter. We have another small place for winter on main road. Everyone around is aware we garden and to make matters worse they think we have money stowed away! This isn’t the case as we didn’t get much for the old house and the small one needed a lot of fixing. We have just enough income to take care of ourselves. But already people come to us and want money as they think we have plenty. We grow more than we can use so give some vegetables to neighbors. But they are not very interested in food that needs preparing from scratch. What they are telling us lately is; if things get rough they will come live with us as they know we always put food up season to season! So now I am thinking the old adage” Don’t put all your eggs in one basket” is wise. I will still can and preserve and we will garden which will be available for people, But then there has to be other alternatives like dehydrating and leaving some vegetables in the ground below the frost line that no one notices. Living two places gives us options most people wouldn’t have. Also most folks wait until disaster is upon them to think about where their food will come from? I believe in looking far ahead and preparing for the unexpected but inevitable. Our policy when people ask for money is we can’t help that way but we will give them something to eat. They usually don’t come back!

    17
    Reply to this comment
    • Miss Kitty December 7, 14:00

      @Thrifty-Granny
      You might want to tell these grifters that you don’t have any money because you:

      Had to pay off old debts.
      Had medical expenses.
      Car repairs.
      As you already did, home repairs.

      If all else fails, the next time they come over to mooch, beat them to the punch and ask them for money. If nothing else, it will annoy them and maybe they won’t come around so much with their hands out.

      14
      Reply to this comment
      • red December 8, 05:33

        7 December, 1941

        1
        1
        Reply to this comment
        • Armin December 8, 14:45

          A day that will forever live in infamy, as they say, Red. The attack on Pearl Harbour where the United States was drawn into WWII. There’s so much that can be said about it but as I can’t prove any of it no use talking about it much. Sacrificial lambs brought to the slaughter. So much unnecessary death and destruction. Some say provocation to unite public opinion to force the United States into the war.

          Reply to this comment
          • red December 9, 11:55

            admin: Yes, but inevitable, given FDR’s contempt for anything but power and wealth. Word is, FDR had to be blackmailed to force him to go to war against the entire Axis. He was friendly towards Hitler, but Joe Kennedy was a flaming Nazi by this time. Hiro Hito fought against hitting the US because he knew how powerful we would be. Hitler was a New Ager who fought other New Agers. It was only when the US, a Christian nation, was forced into the war Hitler saw one loss after another. And now because of liberals, Mein Kamph is very popular reading in the West and in terrorist nations. niio

            2
            2
            Reply to this comment
            • Armin December 9, 18:58

              Yes, I’ve heard things like that also, Red. Apparently Joe Kennedy was quite friendly towards the Nazis. I’ve also heard that there were a number of Allied banks and corporations supporting the Nazi war effort. I’ve also heard that Hitler didn’t want to go to war against Britain and that there were communications to that effect between Hitler and Chamberlain. I’ve also heard that Hitler was drawn into the war through provocation. Especially Polish provocation shortly before the war by Poles coming across the border and either torturing or killing German citizens. And Hitler warned the Poles. Either stop what you’re doing or we’ll come across YOUR border en masse. How many of us know about Bloody Sunday of 1939 where they say approx. 50,000 German citizens living in Bromberg were murdered by the Poles? The fire bombing of Dresden? How many of us remember the Rape of Berlin where again AFTER the war millions of German women were gang-raped by both American and Russian troops? How many of us know of the Rhine Meadows where again AFTER the second world war Ike deliberately starved millions of German POW’s to death? The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which by any definition is genocide and a war crime of unprecedented proportions. Apparently the Japanese had already unconditionally surrendered. Will we ever know the real truth? Probably not likely. History is always distorted and written by the victors. Niio to you also, my friend.

              Reply to this comment
              • red December 10, 02:43

                Armin: Yes, every war has its atrocities, but Nazis were masters of propaganda. My stepmother was an ex-Nazi, hated them, in fact, and had been a captain in the Schutzstaffel. She was a very good teacher and I have yet to find her wrong in any point. Nazis gave us the green fascist movement that’s destroying kali-fornia today, a form of communism, and so on. Soros, who owns much of Monsanto, still talks about his glory days, hunting down his own family with the Gestapo. The dnc ‘forgave’ a lot of war criminals, like Soros, and even adopted them into the nation. Europe did the same, as did the USSR, and so on. We’re still fighting WWII through the terrorists, who’s fathers were trained by SS.

                Chamberlain no. Hitler laughed at and mocked the man as a weakling. The agreement was on paper only, for political purposes.

                While Poland admits it was hardly innocent in WWII, I don’t believe Polish troops were invading Germany. They took over Silesia, part of Czechoslovakia only to lose it when Hitler invaded the Czechs to, as he claimed, free the German peoples. Western Poland itself was German, and Hitler was no opposed to the USSR taking the eastern half–he and Stalin were good friends.

                Bloody Sunday 800. These were hostages the Nazis held. Of the slaughter that led up to this, probably around 300 people, most German in name only. Later, the Nazis slaughtered 1,400 claiming it was retaliation. All told, the Nazis killed 2 million Poles, most of the Christians.

                Dad and uncles told me, they were under orders to shoot to kill anyone they caught raping. It almost set off a war with the USSR, and in fact did in Austria. Austria remained free only because American troops forced the USSR out.

                Yeah, I believe that Japan through Hiro Hito had surrendered before being hit wityh nuclear devises–and always heard the nuclear material was made in Germany. We invaded Thuringia and the labs there for that reason, not because Patton loved horses (the PC answer 🙂 He hated them! But, the dnc is noted for its sadism, no? And, we did try to drop a small A-bomb on Japan, but the devise didn’t work. They handed it over to the USSR.

                Joe Kennedy, ya, ouch. According to the biographer and family friend, Klein, Joe adopted nazism in the 30s and made an ass of himself trying to force FDR to declare the US a Nazi nation. Prior to that, his father-in-law, Fitzgerald, introduced him to the Hellfire Club. Old Joe died still hoping America would become a nazi nation, and the dems have worked hard to do just that. Everything right we lose we lost because Hitler wanted it that way. He despised Christianity as a form of Judaism (which it is), and as flabby and weak, a mongrel religion that destroys manhood. He stated Islam created men and manhood and if he believed in a god, he would be Muslim. Today, the dnc actively promotes hard-line Islam. Mein Kamph is the second most popular reading material among terrorists. That’s funny, in a way, because Hitler was a butch gay. One of his best friends had been Ernst Rohm, who founded the Vogel Jungen, a violent gay youth organization. Rohm put his brown shirts at Hitler’s disposal until Hitler threw them under the bus for political reasons. Those that sided with Hitler made up the original Gestapo. And, right there we have the American/European gay agenda, and why many gays are today voting on a more or less conservative platform. Many are atheists, and Muslims target atheists and then gays.

                In the end, we win, but the cost of freedom is going to be a bloodbath such as the world never knew. Niio.

                Reply to this comment
                • Armin December 11, 00:26

                  Wow! That’s a lot of good info, Red. Thank you for taking the time to post it. Not much I can say. Bottom line. In any war ALL the nations commit atrocities against each other. There are no innocents. And history is written by the victors. Thank you.

                  Reply to this comment
                  • red December 11, 21:25

                    Armin: Vietnamese NVA- and Cong ex-soldiers have been coming out to talk of atrocities they did to their own people to ‘prove’ Americans were murderers and rapists. Most are very bitter because the socialist government has done nothing to keep its promises–common with them.

                    On Nazis, while I’m not doubting you, remember, they were communists. They had no qualms about murdering their own people, especially those who did not like Nazis. I heard an old saying from a retired CIA agent, Never waste a good corpse. The same goes in the Middle East, where Muslim terrorists’ fathers and grandfathers were Gestapo trained. A lot of people have died there to produce ‘victims’ of Israel ‘atrocities’.

                    Hitler, himself, was a gay, yet almost 10% of gays registered as such in Germany (the Wiemar offered free health care to gays) were dragged off to death camps, including his friend, Ernst Rohm, who had been made head of the Jungen. Ernst Rohm founded the Vogel Jungen, a violent gay youth club based on rape, on Spartan pedophilia.

                    I have family from Germany and more still in Germany. I have to say that I never heard from them of Polish atrocities but yet, I know it happened, and thank you for showing me that. Germany always claimed to own eastern Poland as well as parts of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. BTW, family still in Germany are prepping for war.

                    Reply to this comment
                    • The Ohio Prepper December 12, 04:09

                      Red & Armin,
                      Technically, the Nazi’s were not communists; but, National Socialists not that there is really much if any distinction between the two.
                      When it comes to atrocities however, there are none that compared to communists and socialists in what they do to control their own citizenry.
                      Pol Pot, the former Khmer Rouge leader, is responsible for an estimated 1.7 million deaths in the killing fields of Cambodia (Democratic Kampuchea) all in a four year reign of terror from 1975 to 1979.
                      Here is an example and reminder of the end game of socialism and communism.
                      Skulls of the people killed in the Killing Fields at the memorial centre, Choeung Ek Genocide centre museum, Phnom Penh, Cambodia
                      https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-skulls-of-the-people-killed-in-the-killing-fields-at-the-memorial-176605049.html

                • Armin December 11, 03:07

                  The only thing that I take exception to with this post, Red, is Poles coming across the border to help provoke Germany into a war. That comes straight from my mum and I don’t THINK she would so blatantly lie about something like that. Apparently one of her uncles had his tongue nailed to a table top just shortly before the war by the Poles. And this was NOT an isolated incident.

                  Reply to this comment
                  • The Ohio Prepper December 12, 04:21

                    Armin,
                    Keep in mind that the Poles were attacked from all sides, with both Russia and Germany having designs on them with the secret Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. One reason I think was that Jews were welcome in Poland, when they were shunned in nearly all other European countries.
                    While Germany gets the largest reputation for anti-Semitism, their claim to fame was they took it to its final end; but, anti-Semitism was rampant all over Europe, except for Poland. That is why we have the stories of the Warsaw ghetto, a onetime haven for Jews before the war.

                    Reply to this comment
                    • red December 14, 03:14

                      Ohio: True, Poland was considered a whipping boy and battle field from post-Roman era.

                      Not, not a lot of differences between Nazi and communist. Neither were true communist–few if any communes. But, who were Hitler’s heroes? All communists and or atheists. Rumor still circulates he was in the German Bolsheviks and part of the mob that ousted King Gustav of Bavaria. When FDR was forced to declare war on all of the Axis, Nazis across the country jumped into the Communist Party. Joe Kennedy didn’t, but remained demanding FDR declare the US a Nazi Nation. Margaret Sanger saw no difference between nazism and communism and remained both, calling Hitler her beloved spiritual son and he, his spiritual mother. the major difference between Nazism and communism is that communists tried to make the state the people’s religion and failed. Hitler saw this and went full bore into the dark side of New Age with an actual priesthood devoted to searching out witch trials and how witches called on demonic forces to work for them. Of course, an atheist, Hitler and Himmler believed them ascended masters of Aldebaran, a race once human but evolved into beings of fire. a channeler, Hitler is still considered the most powerful of 20th Century channelers, having Lucifer as his ascended master. Each death in battle, a hospital or death camp was a blood sacrifice. At the end of the war, thousands of SS fled into the USSR and were welcomed as communists.

                      The war never ended, only took on a different route.

              • left coast chuck December 13, 06:20

                Armin: Those were black flag events orchestrated by the Nazis so they could invade Poland for “Liebenstraum” much as the Japanese invaded Manchuria for the room to send out excess population and to exploit vast mineral resources either in scant supply in Japan or non-existent.

                I don’t know where you have been reading your history of WWII, but it seems to me you are consulting some really distorted sites.

                As for Hirohito, one word, Red, he was too worried about losing his job as emperor even after the atomic bomb blasts. It was actually Russia invading Manchuria and decimating the Japanese army there that made the Japanese government wake up to the realities of life. They had this secret hope that Russia for some reason known only to the Japanese, was going to intercede on their behalf with the U.S. and the other allies and accept less than an unconditional surrender. Like so many countries, the Japanese have their national myths and false dreams. Like the U.S. trying to establish “democracies” in countries that have absolutely zero understanding of the meaning of the word.

                Any rationally thinking person would not believe that the Russkis would come to the aid of the Japanese, especially when the Japanese had humiliated the Russkis before the world in the 1890s in the Russo-Japanese War. Even now the Japanese are still living in some kind of dream world when they are asking Russia for the return of the Kuriles. They seem to have conveniently forgotten that the Kuriles were the property of Russia until the Russkis lost the Russo-Japanese War and Japan took them over. So Japan’s chances of getting the Kuriles “back” is zero to none.

                As for the atomic bombs being a war crime, then the bombing of all cities was a war crime. The loss of life in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was less than in the fire bomb raids on Tokyo and Yokohama. The area destroyed was less than the area destroyed in the Tokyo/Yokohama fire bomb raids.

                Had we not had the atomic bomb, Russia would have swept across Manchuria and into Hokkaido. That would have been an easy victory for Russia. They would have been able to cross over from Hokkaido to Honshu and would have started working their way down that island. We were committed to invade Kyushu in September and were in the planning stages for a landing in Yokohama in March.

                The Japanese government was committed to an all-out national effort to repel the invaders. Civilians were being issued bamboo spears with which to launch frontal assaults on enemy troops. Had we not dropped the atomic bombs which caused Stalin to pause in his attacks, I believe Japan would have ceased to exist as a nation. Best case would have been Russia occupying Hokkaido and northern Honshu while the U.S. would have occupied southern Honshu, Kyushu, Shikoku and Okinawa. Tokyo would have been a divided city a la Berlin. Truman was adamant that was not going to happen but the only way he could avoid it was the use of the atomic bombs. Those two bombs saved millions of lives and preserved the Japanese polity.

                If you were not alive during WWII it is impossible for you to understand the hatred that existed in this country toward Japan. The Germans we fought because they were power hungry and didn’t learn their lesson in WWI. The hatred toward Japan was a national irrationality. If we acted toward the Saudis whose citizens bombed the World Trade Center the way we acted toward Japan for Pearl Harbor, Ryadh and Mecca would be glowing spots in the desert — and probably several other large cities in the Middle East as well.

                Reply to this comment
                • red December 14, 03:25

                  LLC: Nope, was born in the fifties, but every man able to in the family fought in WWII. One was in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Yes, I know about the hatred towards the Japanese, but also know why they attacked. Hiro Hito had no power. His whole family depended on a stipend from the government and had for a number of generations. He openly stated what he felt about the war, and was told to shut up or else. Assassination was common in Japan then, and ‘gods’ died as easily as mere men. At the end of the war, only because he dared buck the rulers did he avoid the rope.

                  Family was involved from Africa to Thuringia, from the UK to Normandy to Germany. No fam involved in Pearl Harbor, but plenty of us from the US and Mexico chased the Japanese across the Pacific. peace to you. Yes, I know why we hated the Japanese and why why grandmother called her German daughters-in-law Nazi bitches, yet came to love them as family. Why my other grandfather threatened to use the shotgun on my father for bringing home an ex-Nazi warbride. Our second religion is politics and always was.

                  Reply to this comment
                • The Ohio Prepper December 18, 17:54

                  left coast chuck,

                  As for Hirohito, one word, Red, he was too worried about losing his job as emperor even after the atomic bomb blasts. It was actually Russia invading Manchuria and decimating the Japanese army there that made the Japanese government wake up to the realities of life.

                  At the end, Hirohito cut a vinyl phonograph record of the surrender announcement to be played on Japanese national radio; but, thinking surrender was dishonorable, many in the military tried to stop it. A search for Jewel Voice Broadcast can find you the details.

                  As for the atomic bombs being a war crime, then the bombing of all cities was a war crime. The loss of life in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was less than in the fire bomb raids on Tokyo and Yokohama. The area destroyed was less than the area destroyed in the Tokyo/Yokohama fire bomb raids.

                  There is blame to go around on all sides, when you take into account Dresden bombed by the allies, and the German Blitz of Coventry. In the Case of Coventry, Churchill knew of the attack beforehand; but, made the decision not to evacuate, because it could have shown the Germans we had broken their unbreakable Enigma crypto system, a secret we could not let out.

                  Had we not had the atomic bomb

                  Everything you stated and the fact that we estimated 1,000,000 casualties in the rest of the conflict. So 80-150,000 of the enemy or 1,000,000 of us? Hard choice; but, I think the correct one.

                  If you were not alive during WWII it is impossible for you to understand the hatred that existed in this country toward Japan.

                  I was not alive; but, I understand the hatred, because my late father who fought in WW II also lost a cousin @ Pearl Harbor and was very adamant about the Japanese.
                  When I brought home my 1st new vehicle, a 1974 Toyota Land Cruiser he was not pleased that I bought not only a foreign vehicle; but, a Japanese vehicle. He did eventually get over it

                  Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper December 7, 17:56

      Thrifty-Grammy,
      One thing you didn’t mention were firearms or other means of self defense. Should things get really bad, fending off the neighbors could end up being more than just not answering the door.
      I also find it sad that in a rural location you have people who don’t already grow their own foods or cook from scratch. Around here that’s the common thing

      Reply to this comment
  3. grammy em December 6, 16:10

    direct them to a local church that has a food pantry. our town has 2 within walking distance from me. you might consider donating your excesses and almost expired stored foods to your local pantries. keep them in “business” so they can help when a real emergency occurs.

    10
    Reply to this comment
    • Grandmatoo December 6, 18:33

      Our church has long encouraged food storage and provided guidance on how to use the stored food. They recommend a years supply. Even so, not everyone follows through with it. In the event of a disaster, we are expected to pool our food supply for redistribution.

      In teaching classes on how to cook with the stored foods and garden, I too have received comments about how I will be their best friend when disaster hits. I counter with, “I may not survive. This is knowledge you need to know for yourself!”

      13
      Reply to this comment
      • runna muck December 8, 04:18

        although not a Mormon I follow this princible myself we can all learn a little from each other you don’t work you don’t eat is one of them

        Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck December 6, 19:24

      Donate the expired stuff. Those dates are arbitrary and are a way for companies to cover themselves in case the food is stored inappropriately but conveniently forgotten after a problem with the food.

      Most experts or claimed experts agree that as long as the integrity of the can is intact, the food inside is safe to eat. Food has been discovered stashed away in many locales and when opened decades later was found to be edible.

      Perhaps some of the food value had diminished which is impossible to tell without extensive, expensive laboratory testing, but taste wise it was acceptable.

      Reply to this comment
  4. Jabba December 6, 16:23

    If they find out, they find out. Doesn’t mean I’m going to hand out…

    Reply to this comment
    • Armin December 6, 23:38

      If you’re not going to “hand out”, Jabba, and you shouldn’t have to for those people that can’t think past the end of their nose, then you’ve got to be prepared to defend. And it’s going to get ugly.

      Reply to this comment
  5. Fireskin December 6, 16:39

    The prep plan I’m preparing for is a community one. A “village” as it were. I know me and my family will be okay. I’ve already had cause to test that. But I don’t know everything so when family or neighbors come to me we talk about what skills or resources they have to share in a SHTF situation that may help in the places I’m lacking. A prepared community will last longer term in my thinking than one isolated family. Barter has worked in this world for millennia. Planning ahead for it, so far, is working well.

    Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck December 6, 19:38

      Many societies, including the Pilgrims who landed at Plymouth Rock have tried a socialist plan where all shared equally in the work and the resources.

      All of them have failed.

      If you read accounts of the emigrants crossing the plains, every wagon train that started out was organized, had written rules and regulations about duties and responsibilities that all who joined that train signed.

      Most wagon trains were hardly out of sight before some started either violating the rules or heading out on their own.

      The only way such societies can make it is if they are dictatorships. Even then, such rule usually dies with the iron-handed ruler.

      You may disagree with my posits. That certainly is your prerogative, However, I think you will find that there are shirkers in every group. There are those who will eagerly seize their share or more, but when it comes to shouldering the burdens of providing, are nowhere to be found or they will do absolutely the least they can to skimp by.

      In all the management seminars I attended to better manage my company, the best advice I ever got was not to try to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. If you have an employee who won’t perform the best thing you can do for him, yourself and the rest of the employees and the company is to terminate him.

      I predict you will have the same problem with your “society of survivors.” You need to decide how you are going to terminate those who do not perform up to what is necessary but are the first in line to get their share and more.

      Good luck

      16
      Reply to this comment
      • Armin December 6, 23:34

        I agree with you a 100%, Chuck. Socialism has never worked properly and will never work. Look at the communist countries, which in essence is extreme socialism. Extreme corruption and the money still flows to the mother effers at the top. All the other people not part of the “club” live a very simple lifestyle. Drugs, booze, sex and rock and roll help them to make it through each day. There is a serious alcohol problem in Russia. Probably would be in N. Korea too if the people there could actually afford such things. There is no incentive for them to care or try harder. There was a study done once about the ordinary worker in Russia. It was found that in their own gardens they were able to grow much more food per unit of land than in the collectives. They just didn’t care and there was no reason for them to do so. If and when we do have a true extended societal collapse dictators will “naturally” arise from the rubble and may in some ways be necessary for the continuance of the human race. There WILL be local warlords and the whole thing may de-evolve into internecine conflicts until SOME semblance of order is restored. And good luck to you also, sir. I sincerely hope you are one of the ones that manages to make it through unscathed. And this advice to all of you. This website is once again messing around with me and won’t let me post properly. BEFORE you post your comments here, COPY them first and if the website “loses” your comments just go back in and PASTE your comments and do it again. It takes me a great deal of work to write my comments and I’ll be damned if this bloody website is going to try and block my comments for bogus reasons.

        Reply to this comment
        • left coast chuck December 7, 02:05

          Armin: Have patience. Don’t exit the site or move on to another post until the site has finished processing your post. I notice that it is quite slow and will take up to two minutes to process your post. If you exit before then or go to another post, your carefully crafted post will disappear into the ether net. Secondly, it will be hours before your post appears on the site. The screening program that Claude uses is 7.5 bit, not quite 8 bit in processing speed. So it may take as much as 30 minutes to process 100 keystrokes. If you wait as I have outlined above, should you live long enough, your post will appear. I have found the above to work for me after much trial and error.

          Patience, Criket, Patience.

          Also, the wordier your post, the longer it will take to process (see comments about about processor speed)

          It’s 18:05 now. This post should appear by 23:00.

          Reply to this comment
          • Armin December 8, 04:30

            Thank you for that, Chuck. And yes, I do have a heck of a lot of patience. But that’s not what I’m talking about, sir. I’m very careful about what I post, especially my e-mail address, and because I’m the world’s worst and slowest typist it takes me forever to even get a short post together. You have no idea of the editing I have to go through to get my post to come out right. Oy, vey. LOL! I was getting a little frustrated the other day because the website kept giving me bogus messages such as I had put in the wrong e-mail address and messages of that type and then “loses” my post. I hadn’t. If I hadn’t first copied my messages before posting my comments I would have lost hours and hours of work. I very well understand that sometimes it does take quite a while for my comments to appear. If the website accepts my post without coming up with some bogus messages to me and then “losing” my comments. As always, appreciate your thoughtful input, Chuck. 🙂

            Reply to this comment
            • The Ohio Prepper December 8, 16:44

              Armin,

              because I’m the world’s worst and slowest typist it takes me forever to even get a short post together. You have no idea of the editing I have to go through to get my post to come out right.

              I have an idea; but, I also have a system.
              Since I hang out on at least 3 forums like this and all behave a bit differently, I “construct” all of my posts in a word processor that allows easy spelling and grammar check, and then use a text to speech program for final verification, since words like “form” and “from” all pass the spell check; but, may not be the correct word I wanted. Once completed offline, I then copy & past the whole post for submission.

              I was getting a little frustrated the other day because the website kept giving me bogus messages such as I had put in the wrong e-mail address and messages of that type and then “loses” my post. I hadn’t.

              I don’t get those ;but, did get the ”You are typing too fast” and a Database access error a few times.

              In case the site owner is reading this there are a few more problems.
              1. While the New Post emails have a URL (link) that can be clicked, the follow-up comments, are in plain text and must be copies and pasted to a browser instance. I can make it work; but, it’s not convenient.
              2. Quite often I’ll get a new comment email, and the new comment is not available on the site yet, often for 30-60 minutes, so I just have to past the URL and keep refreshing until it’s there.

              If I hadn’t first copied my messages before posting my comments I would have lost hours and hours of work.

              Yep and that’s why I work offline until I’m ready to post and don’t delete or change my work until it’s been accepted.

              Reply to this comment
              • Armin December 9, 19:10

                Thank you for that, Ohio. Good idea. Maybe I’ll construct my posts offline. Save them and then copy them to this website. Thanks. I’ve also gotten the same messages. Either I’m typing too fast. Or posting too much. Or I’ve input the wrong e-mail address. I haven’t. And then all that work is gone. Even today, replying to some of these posts has taken me hours of work. That’s why I really don’t like to go here because I get “sucked” into staying on here for hours and I have so many other things to do. Obviously my fault. But I also feel that some of these topics are important enough that I put in the time and effort to post my 2 cents worth. Thanks, Ohio.

                Reply to this comment
              • Jo-Lyn December 12, 22:10

                I’ve started doing that for emails too. It gives me a chance to think about what I want to say. If I’m mad when I’m writing it, it also gives me a chance to cool off 🙂 LOL

                Reply to this comment
        • The Ohio Prepper December 13, 05:47

          Armin,

          I agree with you a 100%, Chuck. Socialism has never worked properly and will never work.

          I disagree.
          Socialism has always worked properly;, since its proper function is to make all people equal and it does, albeit in shared poverty. There of course have to be the smart people who run the place and ”need” more than the peasant class to do this.

          “loses” your comments just go back in and PASTE your comments and do it again. It takes me a great deal of work to write my comments and I’ll be damned if this bloody website is going to try and block my comments for bogus reasons.

          I haunt several preparedness related forums and do everything offline.
          For this response, I started by copying your comment, snipping out the parts on which I wanted to comment, adding the proper HTML tags, and then copying and pasting the final comment to post.
          On long involved posts I may take hours, often doing research or clarifying dates and other specifics, and this allows me to work a while, do other things, and come back until I finish.

          Reply to this comment
          • red December 15, 06:26

            Ohio: The only socialism I’ve ever seen work is in Native America, where it was 100% voluntary, the Korima Law, the sharing of all things in brotherhood. It’s based on family and religion, not government. Other than that, I know of no society where socialism didn’t rapidly devolve into elites and a mass of sheep used to keep the elites in wealth and power. niio

            Reply to this comment
            • The Ohio Prepper December 17, 14:17

              Red,

              Ohio: The only socialism I’ve ever seen work is in Native America, where it was 100% voluntary, the Korima Law, the sharing of all things in brotherhood. It’s based on family and religion, not government.

              There is one other based on the same fundamentals: The Israeli kibbutz

              Other than that, I know of no society where socialism didn’t rapidly devolve into elites and a mass of sheep used to keep the elites in wealth and power. niio

              Or simply dissolved when the makers got tired of supporting the takers.
              I was in college during the hippy commune days, and all of those I knew of involved with that ”movement” were very quickly disillusioned, once they found out how much work was involved.
              The ones I know of are all gone long ago, since in the end, <strong<”Who is John Galt” usually wins the day.

              Reply to this comment
              • red December 18, 17:54

                Kibutz worked well for their day. Pre-Nation of Israel, they had a common enemy and were fortified, many making their own guns and munitions. You got up in the morning in your barracks and put on a gun before you dressed. Israel doesn’t support them because they no longer need them. While hardly a footnote in history, most today are sold or become corporations.

                Many of us still use the village concept. Everyone works for everyone else as brothers. Most colonies in the Americas never developed that beyond peasant stage. The US took it as part of the common religion.

                Yeah, I remember the hippies. When in college, some proff got on me for going ‘white.’ What? No, what the class discussed was how Native Americans ran things. He thought we’re socialists, so it was a form of communism. Hardly. No common stores, everything from a woman’s fields or her part of the hunting/grazing lands was hers. But, the wannabe hippies sided with me. Women, especially, liked it, but the men, as well because men need nothing more than what they can carry on their backs. After a few weeks of this, the proff got nasty and all of us walked out of class. Of course he failed me no matter what I turned in, so I filed on him for racism. It was Penn State, so we both know how far that went. niio

                Reply to this comment
      • red December 9, 11:25

        LLC: It’s in the Bible, as well. That’s where the Pilgrims took it from, with the same results. Apparently, god’s not into socialism 🙂 niio

        Reply to this comment
      • The Ohio Prepper December 13, 05:32

        left coast chuck,
        I agree with all of your observations.
        The pilgrims started out with that share with all everyone is treated the same socialism until they found that even among their religious ranks there were shirkers. The solution was private plots and the hard core, “You don’t work You don’t eat” rule.
        In our case I think our group has no shirkers; but, we’ve been putting together this group of rural friends and family for a few decades. We already work together, and coming together post SHTF will just be the group coalescing into a more compact space that is more easily heated, powered and defended.
        In our rural community, individual families, mostly farmers are used to hard work with little help except from your kids, or the occasional neighbor, so once in a group, each can carry their weight and work less than pre SHTF.

        Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper December 13, 05:19

      Fireskin,

      I don’t know everything so when family or neighbors come to me we talk about what skills or resources they have to share in a SHTF situation that may help in the places I’m lacking.

      That’s what we have been doing for years.
      Our MAG has been accumulated from mostly neighbors for years and consists of medical personnel (Paramedic, Nurse, & NP), as well as a few younger stronger people to help us old folks with the heavy lifting. Everyone is familiar with firearms and have skills using their own.
      We provide a large house with means for heating, water and power, so like the castles of old, many will rally here.

      A prepared community will last longer term in my thinking than one isolated family.

      Absolutely!!! In days past, the castles were large structures surrounded by walls; but, inside those walls were many people who lived in what was essentially a walled village.

      Barter has worked in this world for millennia. Planning ahead for it, so far, is working well.

      Keep in mind that we do not only barter things; but, also skills & knowledge.

      Reply to this comment
  6. Prepper December 6, 16:40

    We have a red herring room. We store are expired food storage there. If someone wants to rob S we will take them to that room.

    We save our water bottles and fill them with rice and beans. That is our give away food for those who do knock on the door.

    We have also purchased and older U-Haul truck. We plan to have our food storage on wheels rovinj to different places so that it is not stationary.

    8
    1
    Reply to this comment
  7. Prepper In Training December 6, 16:50

    I have shown a couple of people my “sacrifice” food. These are preps that are well past the Best By date. I tell them I will eventually open them and put in my compost pile, or feed to the pigs. I even offer some cans to them, which they handily turn down.

    The “good stuff” is buried in the back, another location, or even set to the side so the old stuff can be explained away. Also, my “good stuff” is comprised of the food most people don’t normally want; things like off-brand soups/veggies, hominy, spicy foods, cheap meats, etc.. People of “discerning tastes” turn their noses up and tell me I’m weird. I may be on the list to be hit up for food, but I am very low on most people’s list and will have a few extra days to prepare for the horde that may show up.

    Reply to this comment
    • Miss Kitty December 7, 14:11

      @Prepper in Training

      I do the same thing. My Really Good Stuff is in a closet and totes. I need to rotate out some of the older things, but I (more or less) organized my preps recently.

      It’s surprising how many people turn up their noses at off brand canned goods…many of them are just as good as name brand and are much cheaper. Just like the many people who spurn Spam…if you eat bacon and ham, Spam is just as tasty properly prepared!

      Reply to this comment
  8. Chas December 6, 17:38

    Being an octogenerian I plan to just but in. I only prep for short term at my age or for about 3 days. No need to bug out. Mainly try to stockpile just water.

    6
    2
    Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck December 6, 19:27

      Well, I hope no emergency in your neighborhood lasts a month.

      Reply to this comment
    • Armin December 6, 22:12

      I hear you, Chas. I’m a septuagenarian and not in the best of health. I also have no choice but to bug in. And Rich M. is talking before the SHTF. After it happens things will RADICALLY change. I’m just distant enough (not in distance) from my neighbours and eccentric enough that NO ONE knows what I’m doing. Not that I’m doing ANYTHING of course. Nudge. Nudge. Wink. Wink. Once the poop starts flying from the ventilator I’ll probably end up going down with the ship but not before I run out of ammo. If the bastards want to take by force the little that I do have they will pay for it with their lives. It will end up being a pyrrhic victory for them.

      Reply to this comment
    • Miss Kitty December 7, 14:18

      @Chas

      Three days won’t get you through a bad head cold, much less a blizzard or hurricane that leaves you homebound for two or three weeks because roads are impassable. Water’s good, but please try to get in some food…if you’re on a limited budget, there should be a food pantry in your area that can help you. Some of them can also refer you to someone who can help you with a ride if transportation is an issue.

      Reply to this comment
      • Armin December 8, 05:26

        Absolutely agree with you, Miss Kitty. I in no way want to belittle, Chas, but three days worth of food is diddly squat. At least he seems to have lots of water on hand but water by itself isn’t all that nutritious. At the very bare minimum we need to have at least a month’s worth of food and water on hand at all times. And some way to defend our stash. Unfortunately up here in the GWN it’s almost impossible for the “ordinary” person to acquire a handgun unless you go into the black market. And then if you’re caught with it, it’s some serious jail time. Some way to have light if the grid goes down for a few weeks or more. Kerosene lantern, perhaps, as an option? Candles and things of that nature for sure. They’re also a source of heat. REMEMBER YOUR BARTER ITEMS! Can’t eat silver or gold. And if we live in a cold climate some way to keep warm. At the moment I’m growing as many fruit trees on my little patch as I can. I’ve told maybe one person about it that I think I can trust. It will become painfully obvious very quickly that I do have fruit trees on my property if our worst nightmare ever comes to pass. And I do not in the least mind sharing that harvest with my neighbours if and when we do experience the end. Least I can do for them. But they won’t get the “good” stuff. That they’ll have to take care of by themselves. We have lots of wildlife around here such as raccoons, squirrels, rabbits, coyotes, bears. Little farther north moose, beaver, deer. Things like that. If they’re smart they’ll manage to first capture a few rabbits and then breed them (apparently rabbits are born already very horny) so that they’ll have at least some kind of a renewable food resource. And if they get hungry enough they can eat their damn pets for all I care. I’m sure that after a month without food the family dog or cat will start to look quite appetizing. The other thing I worry about is the farmers. They’ll obviously become a magnet for looters. If “IT” happens we may have no choice but to rally around our farmers. Without the knowledge and land that the farmers have it will be that much more difficult to “reboot” civilization. And I’m not all that keen about rationing myself severely so that I also look like I’m starving. I get real cranky real fast if I don’t eat regularly. My stomach does not like it at all. Apparently my particular blood type is set up as a dedicated meat eater (love my steaks) which means my stomach produces more acid than usual to help digest the “heavier” foods. If my stomach is completely empty I REALLY feel it. I sincerely hope that all the world leaders realize that if they start chucking their WMD’s around it’s a no win scenario. If they’re playing some kind of a damn game with us then they can all go straight to hell.

        Reply to this comment
        • The Ohio Prepper December 10, 05:39

          Armin,

          three days worth of food is diddly squat.

          True; but, often quite more than most urban residents have on hand.
          From an emergency management perspective, that 3 days (72 hours) being able to keep yourself alive is the minimum we think people need until 1st responders can get the them to provide help and assistance.

          At least he seems to have lots of water on hand but water by itself isn’t all that nutritious.

          True, and some small amount of other foods would be advisable, either freeze dried or simple things like the Bear Creek soup mixes. They are packaged for long term in Mylar bags and only need water and heat to prepare.

          At the very bare minimum we need to have at least a month’s worth of food and water on hand at all times.

          I would agree; but, unless we have a real long term event, the 72 hours will suffice for most people. Those whose normalcy bias or short sightedness leads them to not prepare, will be on their own and I think really don’t value their own lives enough to do something. They are not my concern.

          And some way to defend our stash. Unfortunately up here in the GWN it’s almost impossible for the “ordinary” person to acquire a handgun unless you go into the black market. And then if you’re caught with it, it’s some serious jail time.

          I’m not familiar with the location acronym ” GWN”; but, would not personally live in such a place.
          I have numerous firearms and just recently purchased another handgun. Fill out the 4473, they run the NICS and you take the firearm home with you. I don’t mind the NICS since it’s all computer driven, only takes a few minutes and does keep dealer purchased firearms from those ineligible to have them

          Some way to have light if the grid goes down for a few weeks or more. Kerosene lantern, perhaps, as an option? Candles and things of that nature for sure. They’re also a source of heat.

          If you use kerosene, spring for the Aladdin mantle lamps since unlike their wick only base cousins they emit a bright white light and about 3000 BTU per hour of heat. Coleman mantle lanterns are similar in both light and heat output.
          For candles, setting one or more in front of a mirror can make a room much brighter.
          I have all of these; but, also have numerous LED flashlights, lanterns, and headlamps with rechargeable batteries and means to charge them.
          I find the Atomic Beam Lantern and its knock offs to be good ones as well as the Headlamps from Rural King. They (RK) have an 80 lumen version for $4.99 that includes alkaline batteries.

          REMEMBER YOUR BARTER ITEMS! Can’t eat silver or gold. And if we live in a cold climate some way to keep warm.

          Actually the new PM’s could well be lead & brass and TP will almost always be valuable.
          To keep warm, you can use layers, including sleeping bags or shrink the size of the place you need to heat.
          One of the best books I’ve found on this subject is ” Tom Brown’s Field Guide to City and Suburban Survival”

          But they won’t get the “good” stuff. That they’ll have to take care of by themselves.

          I have to laugh at this one, since I’ve often stated that I’ll hand out some beans and rice; but, the chocolate, freeze dried strawberries and other fruits are mine.

          We have lots of wildlife around here such as raccoons, squirrels, rabbits, coyotes, bears. Little farther north moose, beaver, deer. Things like that.

          Raccoons are greasy and bears a real challenge; but, when hungry enough most people will learn to cook and eat most anything. It is however called hunting and not shopping, so those new to the sport may not fare all that well.

          If they’re smart they’ll manage to first capture a few rabbits and then breed them (apparently rabbits are born already very horny) so that they’ll have at least some kind of a renewable food resource.

          Have you ever raised rabbits?
          While they are prolific breeders, they are extremely fragile and very susceptible to heat stroke, so raising them like hunting, is not a skill easily learned under stress.

          And if they get hungry enough they can eat their damn pets for all I care. I’m sure that after a month without food the family dog or cat will start to look quite appetizing.

          That’s very common in 3rd world countries; but, could happen here, at least in urban areas.

          The other thing I worry about is the farmers. They’ll obviously become a magnet for looters. If “IT” happens we may have no choice but to rally around our farmers.

          I would not worry about the farmers and rural people, since except in places with heavy firearm restrictions, they (we) are well armed and practiced. I can shoot up to 50 yards on my property any time I want to, and so can most of my neighbors who also hunt and have to manage predators like coyote & fox, or stop destructive pests like deer, groundhogs, and other creatures that would steal food from the fields. Hearing gunshots around here well after midnight is common; but, they are not a drive by like in the cities, just pest control or raccoon hunting.

          Without the knowledge and land that the farmers have it will be that much more difficult to “reboot” civilization. And I’m not all that keen about rationing myself severely so that I also look like I’m starving.

          I agree, and wile rationing may be necessary, dropping lower than 1200-1500 calories per day is dangerous. I’m not fat; however, don’t look like a waif; but, can hunker down here and defend me & mine quite well for a long time.

          Apparently my particular blood type is set up as a dedicated meat eater (love my steaks) which means my stomach produces more acid than usual to help digest the “heavier” foods.

          I don’t think it’s a blood type thing; but, could be basic metabolism, that could be helped short term with antacids or proton pump inhibitors.
          As for meat, if you invest in a good chest freezer and a generator with fuel and consumables, you have the ability to purchase meat in bulk on the cheap.
          19 months ago we purchased a steer from a local farmer, split quarters with 2 other families and kept half, leaving us with more than 300 lbs of beef in the freezer @ a cost of $2.80 per pound. That’s a bit expensive for bones; but, OK for ground beef and great for steaks & roasts. This is a journey, so often you have to plan for the future and save to that end. For us this means only occasionally eating out and I cannot think of the last time we saw a movie in E Theater. Netflix, Amazon Prime video, and off the air TV on a large HDTV works fine and the drinks and popcorn are really inexpensive.

          If my stomach is completely empty I REALLY feel it. I sincerely hope that all the world leaders realize that if they start chucking their WMD’s around it’s a no win scenario. If they’re playing some kind of a damn game with us then they can all go straight to hell.

          It’s not all of the world leaders, just the crazy ones (NK) or the religious fanatics (Iran), so I’m not really all that worried, since history tells us we always come out of it, eventually.

          Reply to this comment
          • Armin December 11, 02:58

            I ALWAYS enjoy your thoughtful posts, Ohio, and the time and effort you put into them. I’ll try and go through your post in detail and answer as many of your questions as I can. I agree. Most urban residents don’t have a prepper mentality and probably don’t see the need to have more than 3 or 4 days of food on hand. While 72 hours worth of supplies will get most through “ordinary” emergencies that’s really not what I’m talking about. When I say “the end of the world” I mean exactly that. The end of the world as WE know it. The capital “WE”. The worldwide WE. Something affecting everyone on the planet. Not just N. America. I’m not all that concerned about short-term events such as temporary power outages. Flooding. Hurricanes. Tornadoes. Etc. These are all relatively, RELATIVELY! insignificant short-term events and most come through these, again, RELATIVELY unscathed. As devastating as some of these can be. I still remember Hurricane Hazel of ’54. A LOT of damage and personal loss for many. Many houses sitting on the flood plains of rivers were simply washed away. The Holland Marsh, which is one of the premiere vegetable growing areas of Ontario, was destroyed. As a rule we don’t get a lot of hurricanes or tornadoes up here. “GWN” is a nickname for Canada for obvious reasons. I’m trying to get people to get used to that acronym. Really not a bad place to live or visit. It was, at least until the latest generation was born. Bloody millenials. Aaaarrrggghhh!!! LOL! Come on up here in the summer for the poutine. LOL! In the winter not much worse than Montana or Minnesota. Unless you’re living on “The Rock”. Our nickname for Newfoundland. Which gets a lot of whacky weather and typically a LOT of snow in the winter because of the Gulf Stream going right past it. We have no 4473’s up here. For us to own a handgun we have to have one hell of a good reason. Typically only people to have handguns are the police and security guards. And of course the criminals that purchase them from the black market. I have what are called hurricane lanterns and lots of kerosene on hand. Rechargeable batteries are great right now but if the electrical grid goes down and stays down for a year or more those rechargeables are useless unless you have solar panels or the like. Again I’m talking about the worst case scenario and I don’t see the sense in stocking up on a lot of rechargeable batteries. Yes, they could be lead and brass but I think people will always gravitate towards silver and gold. Obviously useless when we’re in the depths of an extended long-term disaster (months, years or decades) but may once again become valuable when civilization starts to rebuild itself. An ounce of gold is an ounce of gold. It will have the same weight tomorrow or 100 years from now. That’s why it has always been the go to preferred currency. Obviously, living up here in the great white north, Ohio, I’m VERY familiar with layering clothing. Basically a way of life up here. More so in the prairies. I have a down filled sleeping bag that’s good down to -40. It cost me over $200 40 years ago and today it’s priceless. And if a true extended grid down situation ever does happen then I have no problems closing off the rooms I DON”T need. As for the food thing, Ohio, I have to patently disagree with you. I look at it differently. Beans, rice, flour, pasta. Those they will NEVER get unless they kill me. In an EOTW scenario those will be priceless. Those do not get given away under ANY circumstances. I can live on a quarter cup of rice per day. A little beans. A little meat. I don’t need much. Apparently beans and rice provide you with a complete protein. The chocolate, instant coffee, sugar are my barter items. They don’t get my salt unless they give me something of great value in return. I’m not all that worried about “greasy” when people haven’t eaten for a few weeks. They’ll eat almost anything to stay alive. And even if they’re not hunters to begin with I’m quite sure that when that hungry they will become quite creative at catching whatever they can. They will adapt. Some will obviously be better at it than others. Nope. I’ve never raised rabbits, Ohio. I mean, how difficult can it be? You give them shelter. Food. Water. Put two together and in the morning you have four. LOL! I disagree with the fragile thing. We have LOTS of rabbits up here in the winter time. I don’t think anyone is feeding them yet they still manage to make it through each winter. I hate those little bastards. If they have nothing else they eat the bark off of my smallest trees. I hate rodents. If I were to get rabbits I would lean towards the larger breeds like the Flemish Giants. I want a proper meal not a snack and then I WOULD be able to share with my neighbours with a clear conscience. Wenn schon, den schon. In other words, if I’m going to go to all that effort then I want something tangible back for it.The banks call it ROI. It COULD very well happen in an EOTW scenario and that’s all I’m ever talking about, Ohio. Some say they wouldn’t eat their pets but maybe bury them but I bet you dollars to donuts that after a month without solid food “Fluffy” would start to look quite delicious. I think it was “Red” that gave us an idea in what order the food would disappear and I agree with him. Obviously ALL the food stores would be picked clean first. Easy pickins’. The honeymoon stage of the disaster. Then the livestock.Then the wildlife. Maybe even the animals in the zoos. And last but not least, the pets. And then maybe each other. I have heard stories of people getting stuck high up on mountains for an extended period. Starving. REALLY starving. Reverting to cannibalism. I DO worry about the farmers up here in Canada. Even though they are allowed guns (not handguns) I’m sure that most of them DO NOT have any kind of arsenal on hand. And even if they did what are they going to do when a hundred or even more desperate starving people descend on their farm to clean them out? Not only their foodstuffs but also all their farm animals. Swedes regularly eat horse meat. It’s “normal” for them. I’m not keen on it. Never tried it. I’m sure I would see it differently if I haven’t eaten for 2 or 3 weeks. I don’t know whether it’s a blood type thing or what but all I know is that if I don’t regularly have something solid in my stomach it complains. Not only complains but REALLY hurts. Almost makes me nauseous. Sick to my stomach. Again, as for the generator thing, I would have a battery bank recharged by solar panels instead of a generator. In a true EOTW scenario a generator is more than useless. ‘Bout as useful as a lead balloon. I like the idea of a chest freezer though. Just have to figure out where to put it. And yes, I agree, Ohio. This “prepper” thing is a journey. An evolutionary journey. I’m not all that worried about the crazies like NK or even the major powers. Some of them may be totally nuts but not suicidal. Pakistan and India are another matter. They may at some point start using tactical nukes. And that could very easily escalate. If a global nuclear war does begin it will start by “accident”. Iran does not worry me in the least. It doesn’t hate the West but it absolutely loathes Israel and probably for good reason. Remember Israel is a VERY young nation. Where it is now has been Palestine for thousands of years. It was created through the Balfour Agreement with the help of the British in 1948. Thanks Limies. I know this may insult a lot of you but it has to be said. In this modern era the relationship between the United States and Israel is that of an Israeli tail wagging the American dog. Way too much power held by a very few. And most of it held in Israeli hands. I won’t use the “J” word because that’s a religion not a nationality. I have nothing against Jews in general just the totally corrupt at the very top of the pyramid. To them we are goyim. Little better than cattle. Especially if they follow the Talmud.

            Reply to this comment
          • Hawthorn February 1, 18:16

            GWN= Great White North. AKA Canada

            Reply to this comment
            • red February 2, 02:58

              too liberal, too controlling. Aside from that, word is, the Inuit are armed by the Canadians to keep Russians out of their backyard. Russia wants to hog the oil we discovered and aren’t allowed to take, but the Canadians are…niio

              Reply to this comment
  9. harleybagheera December 6, 20:18

    First of all, when I order any food/supplies, I request when I order it, that it be shipped in unmarked boxes. The only people that know what we have, and how much of it we have, are our two married kids. They live in apartments and have nowhere to store anything, they order things that they want, now and then, have it drop shipped to us (unmarked) and we just write their names on it, and it doesn’t get confused. They know that when the SHTF “they go home” to where we live. They will be taken care of. The rest of the world doesn’t get to do that. The rest of the world doesn’t know what we’re up to.

    Whenever we get together with other people, I make a point of bringing up the subject, and I “play dumb,” like we’re all unprepared – and I can give them lots of advice, without letting the cat out of the bag.. Anyone that knows me, knows that I am always researching something. So I will ask a general question like, “I’m reading/hearing a lot about “prepping” these days – do any of you know much about this?” OR, “I can’t afford to fill my house with food I may or may not ever need, but from what I read, I would sure rather be eating crackers and peanut butter than gnawing on my own arms if they’re right.” OR “How would we start? What would we do first? OR “I’ve discovered that some of the larger companies that sell dried food that lasts a long time have a lay-away plan. You order like a year or two of food, and pay them a certain amount every month, and when you get it paid off, they ship it all to you at once, and you even get free shipping. Does that sound like a good idea?” “OR “Some places offer special group prices’ if several people, like a neighbourhood co-op deal who want to purchase together and the prices are quite a bit lower. Does that sound like a good idea? I really wouldn’t know where to start – any ideas?

    Then I sit back and let THEM do some talking, and voicing questions. I act just as eager as they are starting to be. And if they decided to do the co-op thing, I would participate some, as well. If I got everyone going, and then “bowed out” I would be the schmuck, and perhaps become highly suspect. I am still always looking for “new things” to come out, or find another source that sells different things, and just good sales where I can purchase more of the things we particularly like, so it would not be a difficult thing to do.

    I always jokingly say something like, “You know, don’t you… that if we do this, and the SHTF, people that haven’t prepared are going to be hungry, angry, desperate, and probably mean and demanding. What do we do then? I’m not going to spend money I’m not overly blessed with, to feed the rest of the neighbourhood, let alone people I don’t even know, that come wandering by, and expect us to just take them in and feed them. It would make US go hungry along with them. I’ll talk about this with you guys, but I’m not breathing a word of this to ANYONE else. I think we all might want to consider that – seriously.”

    (and then as a joke), “We all know about the ideas and plans we’re kicking around here, but if any one here at a later date comes over here and expects me to feed you, you know better! Maybe I should stock up on ammunition, too!!”

    Keeping it light doesn’t offend people. And hearing someone else say some things that they have been thinking, but have been hesitant to speak up about, might encourage them, and get them talking and opening up with some ideas. No one wants to be the first one to say something, because the masses have been calling preppers hysterical, and that our ideas are “conspiracy theories,” and we wear tin foil funnel hats, and see Big Foot, and little green men in space ships! I’m sure you have all heard that too!

    And the next time you people from this group, on the street or in a store, mention something small that you’ve gotten – “I discovered that Amazon ships free if you make an order over $35, so… I got a case of Cream of Mushroom soup, a case of Vegetable soup, and a case of pineapple chunks. I couldn’t have done it if I’d have had to pay the shipping too. I think we might all be onto something – then make the motion of zipping your mouth, and wave and smile as you go your way. And you have not had to tip your hand!

    Yeah, it’s a bit of a pain, to go through some semi-charade, when you’re probably already fully prepared, but it just might save a few more families from starvation! Happy Prepping!

    Reply to this comment
    • Armin December 6, 22:49

      I agree with you a 100%, harleybagheera. What you’re doing is very smart of you. It may not be “nice” and it’s certainly not easy but it’s what we HAVE to do. I have some very good friends where I’m living right now but I can’t let even those people know what’s going on. Once I let even one person know it will get around and I may as well have painted a bulls-eye on my back. It’s tearing me up that I can’t even let my best friends know anything. I’ve thought about it long and hard and I KNOW I can’t let ANYONE know. Once the cat is out of the bag and a true societal breakdown does occur then there are no more friends when they and their children are starving. The people around here think I’m just some old, poor, dumb fool without money or resources and that’s the way I like it. I hate playing this game like this and it’s very, very difficult. I want to tell my neighbours and friends but know that I absolutely can’t. And Big Rob made a very telling comment, harleybagheera, which I’ve also thought about. If a true extended grid down situation does happen and everyone around us is starving to death and we look well fed and happy obviously they’re going to know something is definitely up with us. Won’t take long for them to figure it out. One of the options I’ve thought about is that once the SHTF we have no choice but to severely ration even ourselves (if we can’t bug out….my situation) so that we “blend in” and at least LOOK like we’re also starving along with the rest of them. If we don’t take some extraordinary measures and look well-fed then the next day we will have a desperate, starving, angry mob battering down our doors looking for any and all food. And killing me in the process if they have to. Obviously it won’t be pretty. Do I really want to murder my neighbours? Don’t think I could live with that. Water will be the most important thing. I HAVE to get a well drilled or dug on my property. Pronto.

      Reply to this comment
      • efzapp December 7, 17:03

        Armin, you’re right about rationing even if you have food for yourself and family. Also, it would not be bad to have a set of clothes larger than what you normally wear. Baggy clothes, losing weight. I personally practice fasting and sometimes only eating once a day. When the SHTF I will be use to consuming less. On the other hand my husband will have a harder time but he can eat what I don’t.
        He will also be doing most of the manual labor so I’m sure he will lose weight from that.
        I have the knowledge and he has the strength.

        Reply to this comment
        • Armin December 8, 05:46

          That’s a pretty good idea about the baggy clothes, efzapp. Hadn’t thought of that. Good idea. Personally, because of all the antibiotics I’ve had to take over the years (long story) I find fasting VERY difficult. My stomach does not like it AT ALL. Every time I have to take antibiotics either for a dental or medical procedure (and I HAVE to) I have to suck back about a gallon or so of probiotic yogurt or the like to get my stomach flora back to SOME kind of normal but I know that my stomach flora will NEVER be quite as good as it once was. And this isn’t because of age but because of those damn antibiotics my cardiologist says I HAVE to take before any and all procedures. The alternative isn’t all that palatable. Foregoing those antibiotics can lead to some pretty serious consequences so I do as he says. Sigh. 🙁

          Reply to this comment
          • efzapp December 8, 13:07

            Armin, sorry to hear about your health problems and having to take so many antibiotics. I hope you are researching ways to get the probiotics after the SHTF. I have MS and lately it seems I’ve been plagued with urinary tract infections. 2 rounds of antibiotics from MD and no lasting results. I found a very strong antibiotic at a veterinary supply and bought that. It knocked it out but I did research online about ways to prevent UTI’s. I hate having to rely on medicines. So far so good. I wish you luck with your problems.

            Reply to this comment
            • Armin December 9, 19:31

              Thank you for that, efzapp. We ALL have something going on, health-wise, especially as we get older. I’m sorry to hear about your MS and the UTI’s. I have a friend with MS and it ain’t pretty. So I’m quite familiar with it. And UTI’s are just plain nasty. Especially in the elderly. In the last few years of her life I was my mum’s primary caregiver and she came down with a UTI. She was hallucinating ALL the time. Really hallucinating. It was freaking weird. I also hate pills of any kind. They just mess up my stomach. As regards probiotics, efzapp, The Bailey mentioned sauerkraut to get our guts back in order. I have plenty on hand. I also know how to make my own. It’s easy. I have a huge ceramic container on hand that I can use to mash up the cabbages. I have LOTS of salt on hand and cabbages are very easy to grow. Even in a cold climate with a short growing season. I also sincerely wish you the best of luck with your health problems. Thank you.

              Reply to this comment
          • The Bailey December 8, 19:51

            Armin, consider foods that have been fermented to get your guts back in order – sauerkraut (real, make it at home for cheap), fermented veggies of all kinds. Lots of YouTubes on the exceptionally simple process. Also, probiotics from healthfood stores — the kind that have been refrigerated are the best (and pricey) — will replace the good tummy bacteria that you’ve lost to antibiotics. Can’t hurt!

            Reply to this comment
            • Armin December 9, 19:45

              Thank you for reminding me about sauerkraut, Bailey. I have plenty on and know how to make my own if I run out. It’s easy. One of the best ways that I can think of to eat sauerkraut other than straight from the jar (which is ok) is to throw some into a pan with onions and a little oil. Heat it up. Don’t burn it. Have it with some mashed potatoes or a starch of your choice and some eggs or meat. Makes a very easy nutritional meal. Now that you’ve reminded me about it again, Bailey, I may start eating some more. Mainly because it’s wintertime and because of the vitamin C in the ‘kraut. And see if that helps my tummy. As you say, can’t hurt. Thank you!

              Reply to this comment
              • red December 10, 02:50

                Armin: I’m ready to break out some of my stash of kraut in the freezer because the stomach is still off, thanks to the freekin amoxicillin. Fried, baked, boiled, it’s all good. We don’t do a lot of salt, but you don’t need salt. Fact, salt slows down the fermenting and that allows mold to grow in the kraut. when we make it, it’s done in one or two half-gallon jars. The crock has other uses. Making sourdough is one, and that can take 6-8 weeks to complete because we use whole grains.

                A lot of folks survived on kraut and potatoes during FDR’s depression, and on little else. Get better! niio

                Reply to this comment
          • red December 9, 11:18

            admin: You, too? Last shot, they had me on amoxicillin. I said, it doesn’t work for me, she said, tru it! I had no choice, and it didn’t work, no matter what, it ate at my stomach, and now no replies from the doctor. 🙂 So, back to herbals, which may work very slowly, but do work.

            Keep posting! niio

            Reply to this comment
            • Armin December 9, 20:12

              Yup. Me too, Red. It seems many of us have more in common than not. And obviously if I take that crap it also affects my stomach in a very bad way. Takes my stomach about a week to come back. And even then it’s not all that great. You can tell by your poop. But I don’t have much of a choice. If I don’t take the antibiotics then there’s a good chance I’ll develop serious heart problems. Open heart surgery. Thank you, Red. I’ll try and keep posting as much as I can even though I tend to ramble on. I have little bit more time in the winter but there is SO MUCH left to do. In an earlier post I mentioned raising rabbits for food. I may seriously consider that. My property is big enough for that. I would love to have chickens but where I am now I can’t so rabbits seem to be the next logical choice. They’ll be for food. They won’t be pets. I will not name them. Take care, Red. Always a pleasure to hear from you.

              Reply to this comment
              • red December 10, 03:25

                too well I know. All we are is an experiment to the medical community 🙂

                Any anti-bio means I get viral infections. That’s the problem now with the stomach. too much fatty food, too much acid, and it flares up. Unless treated, chew kills it, the bladder infection starts. Again, chew knocks it right out. The last batch of kraut is done. this took a week or ten days, and I’m glad you mentioned it. I checked and it’s at the point of getting soft. The dog and I both had a mess of it, but the rest has to be frozen for New Years.

                We always made pets of our livestock, at least those we worked with every day. They tasted no different from deer and wild turkeys we took out of the corn fields.

                If a cosmopolitan city like NYC encourages people to have a small flock of chickens and even a milk goat, why not you? If you lived in an apartment, you could have a few hens, but no rooster.

                What I don’t like about rabbits is, they’re rodents, and that’s about it. Some folks a few blocks away inherited a small herd of NZ whites. the neighbors let them loose then moved out of town. the rabbits moved over to the lady’s place. She makes sure they have some hay and always plenty of water, and live traps what she wants for the family. Simple as that.

                In colder areas, they do burrow, and people and animals have gotten broken legs from that, and attacked by the rabbits. but these usually don’t until kindling season. I saw that in a Chinchilla Giant down back. She digs a new burrow each spring to kindle, and when the babies are big enough, abandons it. We have gila monsters and a lot of snakes, and that may be why, but the weather is always warm enough they can live in the brush. In summer, she moves her litter down into the washes and the brush there. niio

                Reply to this comment
          • Datman December 23, 21:28

            Hi Armin, I have had stomach problems in the past and have to be careful about reoccurance. I tried probiotics for ages with no relief to the pain and bloating feelings I had. My wife then made me Kefir which stopped the constant aches. It is made with a sachet from the health food store and the wife made it with UHT milk, so it could be stored for a SHTF situation into the future. Its just like a cheesy yogurt so quite pleasant.

            Reply to this comment
      • Loa December 9, 02:47

        I lost a lot of weight during my divorce….but I kept all my “fat” clothes. If the SHTF, I’ll wear my fat clothes which will hang loosely on me! That way……well, you get the picture.

        Reply to this comment
        • efzapp December 9, 03:52

          I’ve lost weight but I’ve kept most of my fat clothes. I’ve got some great faded, ripped jeans and old baggy t-shirts. Perfect for being down and out!

          Reply to this comment
        • Armin December 9, 20:20

          Same thing happened to me when I split with my wife. Lost maybe 30 or 40 pounds. Was the skinniest I had been in a LONG time. With that though I didn’t care whether I lived or died. Very dark time for me. What was even worse for me was when my mum died. I was holding her hand and watched her die in a nursing home. Now THAT was tough! Have learned to deal with it but don’t know if I’ll ever get over it. Life is funny.

          Reply to this comment
          • Loa February 3, 20:22

            I’m sorry to hear that you went thru a very dark time. I can relate! My mom died in the hospital with my sister and me right beside her. However, she made it easier for us. She was an actress most of her life….she was dying and we knew it as did she. She’d had a stroke but was still verbal. She would say something to my sister, sleep for a bit, then say something to me. We just sat there, waiting… Suddenly, she started thrashing around, crying out, “Where is it? I don’t want to lose it? Where did it go?” We couldn’t figure out what she wanted, then she started to cry. This she kept up for nearly 3 LONG minutes. We figured she was hallucinating but we couldn’t calm her down. Finally, in desperation, I took both her cheeks in my hands, made her look at me and said, “Mom! What don’t you want to lose?” She turned off the tears, gave me a big smile, and said, “My sense of humor!” When my sister and I gasped, she said, “Gotcha!” She went into a coma about 1/2 hour later and died the next morning. Now when I think of mom dying, I have to smile!

            Reply to this comment
    • Miss Kitty December 12, 15:18

      Sneaky! I love it, and I plan to steal your tactics! 😉

      Reply to this comment
  10. esmerlda December 6, 21:13

    I teach a Survival class, and I wrote a small survival manual at the time we had a power outage for almost 2 weeks. I only have 5 neighbors on my block, ( I live in city limits,) and I taught them all to store foods, can, dehydrate, and even smoke foods for later usage. As a group, we agreed to pool our food stuff, if,and when, the SHTF, and try to help each other. We have guns, ammo, and ways to stop anyone coming after our stockpile. We do NOT tell anyone outside our block about our stockpile. Since I own the largest tract of land, ( 10 acres,) it is up to me to stockpile. We, as a group put an item or two away each time we go grocery shopping. If, someone has a party, or unexpected company and needs certain foods, we share it with them, providing they restock.
    A couple of years ago, the police came to my door about a missing child in the neighborhood. The one cop said he was hungry, and had to go to the grocery store to shop for he and his family after his shift. ( I fed them lunch.) Since it was in between paydays, and he was broke, I gave him a weeks worth of food for he and his family. He later gave me a gift certificate for $150.00, and,-I have a friend for life. ( The missing child turned up safe and sound.)
    I like to share, and help people out with food, clothes, cigs, and sometimes cash. So far, it has not gotten out of hand, and I donate to the thrift stores, and churches.
    I have a saying: If, anyone leaves my house hungry, it’s their own damned fault.

    Reply to this comment
  11. DocFont December 6, 22:29

    I live here on a place in the country. Let’s make a deal. Buy a 20/40 foot cargo container and set it on railroad ties between this farmhouse and the barn. It provides you with that remote place to stash your supplies for a reasonable cost. If TSHTF, I have people who will show up to help work the farm and provide security. We both benefit.

    6
    1
    Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper December 7, 15:38

      DocFont,
      For those amenable to your offer, where in general do you live?

      Reply to this comment
      • DocFont December 8, 20:58

        If you plan to be a looter, there are easier pickins. You don’t shoot me in the back and some morning I don’t unbury that stash of guns hidden in the barn or in the back 40 or other places then shoot you in your sleep, . My family has lived here since the 1800s and several hundred of them judging by the crowd at th annual family reunion won’t come after you along with a crew from church and neighbors who have helped each other over the years. To quote an old movie, Country don’t mean dumb. You would face the same risks putting your supplies in someone else;s hands and hoping they don;t shoot you when you show up.

        Reply to this comment
      • DocFont December 8, 21:08

        I;m in NW Ohio in one of the least populated areas of the State. Surrounded by farms. Was gonna write more but daughter just informed me the sump pump quit and I gotta go to town. I hope the night finds you well

        Reply to this comment
    • Illini Warrior December 7, 17:06

      I have a more probable idea – you fill that CONEX box with food – we’ll come there and promise not to shoot you in the back – provide security so no one else does >>> you feed us and do all the farm work …

      That’s REALITY guy

      Reply to this comment
  12. Dan December 7, 01:57

    I don’t think my neighbors know that we are preppers. They know I going fishing and do some gardening. But have never mentioned the idea of prepping to them. When we do talk it’s usually very casual about what is going on in our lives like work, weather and life in general.

    Any supplies shipped to the house have came in plain boxes. The water barrels I picked up at Walmart and drove them right into the garage and straight into the house, nobody even knew. Larger purchases from the LDS and from the Amish store get’s purchased with cash and brought into the house the same way, out of any suspecting eyes.

    I’ve tried hinting around with some friends and co-workers about being prepared. When some local flooding or power outages have happened, I’ll start with “what have you done to make things easier for your family if that happens to you”? I haven’t been very successful with finding like minded individuals. It seems to be the last thing on most peoples minds. When they turn the tables on me. I’ll answer with something simple such as I picked up an extra #20 propane tank so I can still cook. I picked up a few flashlights and batteries.I’ll throw out the idea of maybe getting a small generator for power. ( I do have a small generator and a few marine batteries for back up power ).

    I haven’t really found anyone that has an inclination to have a plan to take care of themselves or their family if things were to be a short term emergency/inconvenience. So even mentioning civil disobedience or a SHTF type event was out of the question in bringing up. Most sheeple I guess just want to continue being sheeple. I’ll keep doing what I’m doing and hope it’s enough. I plan on bugging in due to my wife’s health.

    Reply to this comment
    • efzapp December 7, 17:14

      Dan, we also must bug in; I have MS and walking is an adventure at best for me. But I’m the prepper. My husband understands the importance and does everything he can to help. He works and brings home the money. I prep and catalog what we have and may need. Hopefully, we will be okay. Anyone who knows I prep knows they are not welcome when the SHTF unless they can bring value in exchange. P.S. They also know I am the supreme leader! Suggestions I will take but the final decision is mine.

      Reply to this comment
    • Armin December 8, 06:24

      You’re right , Dan. Sheeple is what most of them are. Preparing for any kind of disaster is the last thing on their minds. They’re happy as long as they have bread and circuses. Food and being entertained. Especially the latest generation. They’re very adept at texting. A true survival skill. LOL! May I respectfully suggest that if you are planning for a true global meltdown that you use the generator you have now only for short-term disasters such as hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, etc. and get the money together for a small bank of really good deep cycle batteries (I know you’ve said you have some marine batteries on hand now) and some way to regularly recharge them. A few extra batteries added to the ones you already have on hand wouldn’t be such a bad idea. Once TSHTF fuel will run out very quickly and even if you have a 1000 gallon tank of petrol or diesel on hand it will also run out very quickly. Not to mention the “curious” drawn to the sound or smell of your generator running. You want nothing to draw attention to yourself when the real extended disaster happens. People truly starving will not act rationally to say the least. We may as well be talking about hordes of zombies. I just watched the epic battle in the 8th season of game of thrones and my lord was that ever one heck of a battle. Nothing compared to what would happen if more than 7 BILLION people are fighting each other for survival. My soul shudders at the morbid possibilities.

      Reply to this comment
  13. IvyMike December 7, 02:18

    This question is central to Prepping. I have to say, I’m the fool who would starve to keep my neighbor’s children alive, I would not value my life if it came at so high a price. It seems like a matter of power for some, the world has changed now I have everything and you have nothing, so die.
    I can grow corn, beans, and squash, I can trap a feral hog, know where Wapato and yellow nut sedge are growing, I have food and water and solar power and know a dozen useful trades and can think of no reason not to work with and share with my neighbors. Of course, if I lived in a town or city or outside of Texas, I’d be a lot more prickly about it all…

    Reply to this comment
    • Illini Warrior December 8, 22:11

      you die – a prepper with the correct conservative (??) mindset to believe in being prepared and decent values to pass on >>>> what lives by hook & crook is a POS that goes on to influence the kids that you saved …

      Not exactly what I’d call a good future for mankind …

      Reply to this comment
  14. Illini Warrior December 7, 14:24

    Just went thru the once a month posting from a do-gooder or newbie prepper >> “How can you watch people starve” – “You need your neighbors to survive” – “I have extra to share” – “You’re a hoarder” – “You can’t hide your prepping”

    and – they just can’t realize or understand just how precious & valuable their supplies will be in a serious SHTF – WORTH KILLING FOR

    I just hope for their families that they can realize their mistake soon enough and get that “door” closed soon enough to make a difference in surviving …

    Reply to this comment
  15. Cavalryman December 7, 14:39

    EXCELLENT article! It provides practical solutions for a situation ALL of us will or have found ourselves in. I strongly believe this issue is one of the first that could fracture your group.
    I’ve been in charge of OPSEC for my group for over a decade. To date we still have not agreed on a single solution to the issue of feed them or shoot them. You are not going to change human nature; some people will insist on giving away food at the risk of starvation and other will want to shoot on site. Neither is a perfect choice.
    The solution presented in this article is synonymous with a phrase we are all familiar with, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you have fed him for a life time.
    OPSEC is on the top of our agenda, but our security steps are not fool proof. Before and after a long-term disaster, people will find out you are prepared. You just will NOT be able to hide that fact forever.
    Rich M. has laid out a practical path to follow. Using his suggestions before a disaster will mitigate the chance of being burdened with the hard decision of shoot or share. Also, if you are prepared with basic foods and seeds after a disaster strikes, you have what you need to avoid having to make that hard choice.
    Some reading this article cannot afford to place extra food aside. In which cased, you are probably at a point in your preps that your food stocks are such that you do not have to worry about being confronted with this situation. However, based on where you live, you will have to decide how long it will take for your neighbors to start knocking on your door. Once you have figured that number of days, and you have the same amount of days stockpiled for your family/group; then as you continue to prepare, one of those preparation should be putting some additional food and seeds aside.
    Thank you Rich M. for your article.
    Cavalryman.

    Reply to this comment
  16. Wannabe December 7, 16:48

    The bottom line is when you are hungry you will do anything to eat. Go a week without eating, go two weeks. Listen to your kids or spouse say I’m hungry five times a day every day. This dillusion of I will go starve to feed my neighbors kids is BS. So, stockpile now, have an agreement with others to help each other out. If that agreement is violated all ties are torn and all bets are off. You have or you don’t have and people will cut your throat to have what they don’t have. So, HAVE a well thought out plan and include only those who are like minded. Trust no one else unless they prove they are trustworthy.

    Reply to this comment
    • Armin December 9, 20:41

      You’re 100% right, Wannabe. After that long without food people basically go insane and all our civilized rules go out the window. May I respectfully suggest that even if you do have some kind of agreement with like-minded people that you also have some way to ENFORCE that agreement. People get a little “strange” when they’re desperate. Depending upon how long the next great catastrophe is going to last, and it may be years, things may get a bit “dicey” to say the least. I also want to remind people that the asteroid Apophis is due to come whizzing by us quite closely somewhere around 2029. There is a pretty good chance it will hit us as it’s supposed to ruffle our hair when it does. It won’t be a world-ending event as it’s “only” about a thousand feet in diameter but if it hits a city then bye, bye city. Hopefully for all our sakes it will pass us by. Who says we’re not living in a shooting gallery? Fun times. LOL!

      Reply to this comment
  17. AKTheresa December 7, 19:52

    I try to save a little for others. Extra garden produce can be dried so it takes less space and keeps years. I like the idea of purchasing rice and beans to share, and trading work for goods. That helps people keep their self respect. I just know I don’t want to ever shoot someone, even though it might be you or them. It may not be fair that some people are too short sighted to prepare themselves, but I want to live, not just survive.

    Reply to this comment
    • Wannabe December 7, 21:11

      AKtheresa, fair? Okay here is what is fair. Everyone at the time before a disaster hits has the same amount of time and brain power to prepare. That is what is fair. The grocery store is the same amount of distance from my house as the neighbor thirty feet away. Every American has the fair chance to make a future in this country with the guaranteed rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Now what each individual chooses what to do with that fairness is up to them. Get up and make it happen. If people are caught with their pants down then they have no one to blame but the one in the mirror. Is that a fair assessment?

      Reply to this comment
  18. efzapp December 8, 16:13

    So many people here are talking about putting aside food to share. Have you really thought about how much you will share? Sure, we’ve put a lot of food away, dry and canned, and we have seeds and tools and, hopefully, we be able to take care of our immediate family. But all this food is finite; the end will come. So we have 200# of rice and beans. How long will it last? How long will whatever SHTF situation last? Do I share what I have? How much do I give? If I give a pound of rice and a pound of beans how long before these people return asking for more? And do I give them more? What happens if I tell them no, I have no more to give? What happens when we start to run out? Who do we turn to? I say sorry, from the start. I’ll tell them we are on short rations and don’t have anything to share and we’re looking for food ourselves. We’ll let them know if we find a source and would appreciate it if they let us know if they find something. I don’t expect to hear anything from them. Hard, yes, Cruel, maybe. Reality, definitely.

    Reply to this comment
    • red December 9, 12:07

      efzapp: Rome figured that one pound of grain a day and a pound of salt a month (with extras like meat and veggies, of course) were enough to keep a man on the march. BTW, we already share thru several churches here and nearby towns, thru community centers and so on. But, most folks in the Four Corners states have a history of prepping. It’ll be Mormons who suffer, if anyone does. They have to keep a year’s supply of food on hand. But, they also keep a lot of guns. Not like us injuns do, but meet the need.
      niio

      Reply to this comment
      • Loa December 9, 16:46

        I hate to burst the bubble, but facts are facts. I’m “Mormon”…LDS…and taught prepping in my Stake for years. Trust me on this…less than 10% of active LDS people actually have 3 months supply of food, let alone 1 year! This is even though the church has taught self-sufficiency for decades! It was so frustrating to me that I finally asked to be released from my calling!

        Reply to this comment
        • The Bailey December 9, 18:28

          Loa: Unfortunately, most normals believe that LDS homes are stocked to the rafters with yummies. Amish homes are stocked to the rafters with ORGANIC, HOME-RAISED food. Both groups are going to be real targets if food gets short becuase everyone “knows” they’ve got it. Even politicians will try to find a way to “legally” raid all those religions that “hoard” food. It’ll be ugly. Sorry.

          Reply to this comment
        • red December 10, 01:56

          Be blessed, but, as ye olde Bailey said… WWII, LDS in Europe were raided and often killed because they stocked their homes. Sheeple do not need any proof, only a suspicion. Every Moron I know personally is a prepper. A lot of preppers on YouTube and so on are LDS. We’re gearing up, and a lot of family is they can manage are moving down here. God’s peace be on you. niio

          Reply to this comment
          • Loa December 10, 17:06

            You’re right, Red and Bailey! It’s sad, but you’re are right. I used to have more supplies, but after three years of unemployment, my stockpile is waaaaay down. So, I will defend what little I have left!

            Reply to this comment
            • red December 11, 05:11

              Oh, boy. Where do you live, what state? Rural, semi-rural, city? City is in some ways easier than country. Food should be less expensive to stock. A plus, you have the church’s stores and they usually carry basics. A bag of cornflour is considered pre-cooked and usually miller free for years. corn starch lasts years as long as it’s sealed, and it’s a buck a pound. add 1/3 cup to one cup cornflour and make noodles. A little baking powder and you have dumplings. Use the starch, potato flakes, and baking powder to make potato dumplings. Read everything by clergylady. She’s sharp on the brain, and lived as a prepper much of her life. She knows poverty like our grandparents knew it. I do a hidden garden. canna lily roots are starch (Queensland starch, very pricy but very easy), the shoots are called Inca Asparagus. Red amaranth is both grain and replaces spinach. It looks hot in the flower beds 🙂 Sweet potatoes, and so on. Winter is here so there’s winter radishes, but sow bugs ate the durn winter carrots (Kyoto) seeds. Green peas are taking the place of cowpeas. Pretty soon, garbanzo beans go in along with safflower. Both look good. Safflower seeds are large and good to eat, very high in protein but thorny! Look, do not touch, neighbors 🙂 Sago lily, a wild onion, that loves dry areas around conifers. Prickly pears, and soon, Arizona Christmas cactus, a cholla that gets a red berry. Everything is pretty and everything eatable and most of it is a very strong deterrent to invasion. Peanuts make a nice ground cover. Even when in an apartment, we had some aquaponics via a large fish tank (carp, but tasty carp 🙂 Stop scaring me! I’m old and need all the beauty sleep I can get. You have the brains to be here, reading Preppers. You can handle this because God gave you what you need. Enjoy the ‘wilderness experience’ with Him and He’ll see you thru, via His boot, need be. (oh, God, the pains are coming back…God, I’m sorry! already! 🙂 niio

              Reply to this comment
    • Loa December 9, 16:59

      You have given me the answer I’ve been seeking! Thank you! I’m going to do as you suggest! I hate the idea of turning folks away, but my family comes first! Yes, it will be hard….but necessary.

      Reply to this comment
  19. efzapp December 8, 17:41

    Several people have said that they will share their food stores or are putting extras away to give. That’s all well and good but how do you decide to whom, where, what and when? In a true grid down, no light at the end of the tunnel, WTF is happening situation all your supplies are finite. Do you give to all who come asking? How much are you going to give? How do you handle it when they return for more or tell others you have food? I think it will be best to stay under the radar. I can’t feed everybody so I probably won’t share. I prep for my immediate family. Harsh? Yes. Cruel? Perhaps. Reality? Definitely.

    Reply to this comment
    • red December 9, 12:38

      efzapp: Same here, but that’s common in the desert. Baggy clothes keep the heat off the skin. But, I would buy a cheap makeup kit. A faint smudge under each eye and you look like you needed food. CIA agents and others have written some great things on hiding in plain sight. Another thing is, read what happens when a nation is wrecked. Food disappears, then livestock, wildlife, and then pets. I saw that several times in the 3rd world state of Pennsylvania. With stray cats and dogs gone, rats and mice have a population boom. They feed on the dead, but are also food. Hardware stores couldn’t keep up with the demand for small livetraps. It didn’t help that counties were coming down hard, fining people for feeding strays. Because of the depressions, Carter and BO, they needed the money. Yeah, and there’s another good trade item, small live traps. niio

      Reply to this comment
      • Armin December 9, 22:01

        I’ve also mentioned this anecdote before, Red. Don’t know exactly when this happened, though. Few hundred years ago in London, England. There was a plague of rats in the city. The people were starving. The people hunted the rats. No more rats. In desperate times people will do almost anything to survive.

        Reply to this comment
        • red December 11, 03:23

          Armin, the rats were dying too, if you mean Black Plague. But, after a war, there are always more rats because they have more to feed on. niio

          Reply to this comment
    • Armin December 9, 21:55

      I have to agree, efzapp. Is it harsh? Yes. Is it necessary? Yes. Is it cruel? Not so much. But that will be our new reality and those that don’t realize it will become victims of their own good intentions. If they are polite enough to come knock on our doors and they probably won’t be and it probably won’t just be one person they more than likely will be desperate, starving, armed and very dangerous. In no way, shape or form can we let that one person or people know that we have any extras to give away. You come to the door armed. To the teeth. Make sure they realize you mean business. Make sure they only know about 1 entrance or exit to your castle. Make sure they can’t get at you from the back. Only you know about the emergency exit. WE JUST CAN’T LET THEM KNOW. WE JUST CAN’T. PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE THAT! Even if it’s only one person polite enough to actually come knocking on our door. You give food to that one person and next day there will be a mob breaking down your door. Perhaps killing you. Killing or raping your wife and children to get at your supplies. Is that what you want? I also don’t like it one bit but that’s how it HAS TO BE! And this has also been talked about quite a bit on these pages. Even if it’s a starving young woman with a baby in her arms. And that especially should raise all kinds of red flags in really desperate times. You HAVE to say no. The alternative is your own death or that of your family. What’s to say she’s not a forward scout for her gang waiting down the street from you for a signal from her that you’re an easy mark? If you want to survive in times like that you need to bury your good intentions and become hard as a diamond. Bury SOME of your humanity but still stay human. You take nothing for granted. You trust NO ONE except your immediate family. And even those you keep on a tight rein. In times like that the danger won’t come from outside but from within. And if you have a wife and daughters. KEEP THEM OUT OF SIGHT! Those coming to your door may not even be so much looking for food as being a rape gang. Or jerks that enjoy torturing others for kicks. Or any number of possibilities. There will be no rule of law. And I don’t want to insult ANYONE on these pages, efzapp, but Theresa seems to be a very kind person with a very good heart. She also seems to see the world through rose-coloured glasses. But in desperate times that’s going to get her killed and if she’s not willing or able to shoot someone to protect herself then she WILL become another victim. Maybe even someone else’s next meal. What people haven’t mentioned here is cannibalism. Distasteful in the extreme. Right now. What DOES happen if even the pets (the last items to be eaten) disappear? WILL WE START TO PREY ON EACH OTHER? Apparently human flesh tastes like pork but sweeter. Not from personal experience. LOL! And I’ve mentioned this anecdote before. A movie a long time ago. In the deep south. Black man kills a white man but it’s justified. How do you get rid of the body? You cook them up. Funniest line in the movie was when the sheriff was eating what he thought was pork and he said something to the affect that it was the best pork he had ever had. The sweetest. Another possibility to consider. I don’t know if I could kill and eat my neighbours. I’m not at that point yet. Anything is possible when everyone is starving to death. All possibilities need to be considered.

      Reply to this comment
      • efzapp December 9, 23:01

        I hesitate to say it but I have no problem with “Long Pork” if it comes down to it. Eat my pets? No, I’ll put them down and bury them before I let them suffer. But I already have live traps for rats, so them first. Let’s just hope it doesn’t last that long.

        Reply to this comment
        • red December 10, 03:46

          efzapp: I read you about pets. I threaten the dachshund with ketchup and mustard on occasion. That wheezing noise you hear is evil dog laughter 🙂 If the worse happens, he’s better prepped to take on the world than I am.

          Dealing with rats and any ‘pork’ you will come across (and it’ll be common), stock up on rubber surgical gloves and something like Vicks Vapor Rub. Fleas, lice, ticks, and mites will be common in that pork, and rats. Rat tastes OK. I ate it a few times as a child in the homes of immigrant neighbors. Some countries raise them like rabbits. Gambia, for one. Mine rats are called mine rabbits because Eastern European immigrants brought them here as cheap meat. Asian mice, bull mice, the same. Don’t think of them as a last resort, but a resource. And, as seen in every nation devastated by war, both long pig on the hoof, and rats have a population boom. On a farm, rats are common around poultry and rabbits, and they’ll kill any they can. Like I was taught, eat them before they eat you. niio

          Reply to this comment
        • Armin December 10, 04:51

          Yes, efzapp, let’s hope. If a disaster happens that is so severe that the electrical grid stays down for years or even decades then we’re basically screwed. Some of us WILL survive, we always seem to, but the road back will be very, very difficult. As for your pets, efzapp, if you can’t bring yourself to eat them (you may change your mind if you get hungry enough) bury them as deeply as you can so that roaming predators aren’t attracted to them and dig them up for food. You may want to consider getting a good hot fire going in your wood stove and then basically cremate your pet or pets so as to make them unpalatable to packs of wolves or dogs. You do not want to attract packs of feral dogs to your area. Just another problem you don’t need. And make no mistake about it. If the catastrophe is severe enough dogs will band together. And they WILL consider you food. God help us all. God bless us all.

          Reply to this comment
          • efzapp December 10, 12:59

            Good suggestion, Armin, about burying the pets deep. I don’t think I will get hungry enough to eat them; though, occasionally, I do threaten to make tamales out of them. I always have a few months of pet food on hand. Hopefully, they will like baked rat as a supplement. I have my live traps. I’ll make sure I stock up on surgical gloves, too! Packs of dogs will also be a protein source. Our house is pretty secure with wrought iron bars inside and outside all windows and doors. I will be buying 4X8 plywood to cover all of them from the inside as another layer to deter entry. We have a good fence but it is wood so it will be easily turned into firewood by many. I will probably have a wrought iron fence put up and plant a border of inedible cacti as a further deterrent. So much to think about and do but every idea that helps is welcomed.

            Reply to this comment
            • red December 11, 04:38

              Excuse me a moment while I have a Charlie Brown moment, running up and down the street screaming. Cactus should be part of your hidden garden. I live in planting Zone 9 A, but there are types of prickly pear native to NY State. A sister-n-law in Ohio has a low hedge of one native there. Both pads and fruit are good. The thorns keep kids off the property and drunks avoid it after one got 4 flat tires from the thorns. Don’t you have a hidden garden plan? If south of Alaska, Mesquite is usually good. But, it needs several warm months to make a crop. Best below 5,000 foot elevation and from zone 10 north. Nice thorns. Velvet is the best, tallest, and most productive. Indians always planted mesquite to shade crops, a good source of firewood, and the beans, green and ripe. The beans are high protein and high in sugar/energy. Best way to grind them is a blender.

              Here, I have Santa Rite cactus. No thorns, but glochids, like very small, loose thorns. That’ll be replaced with other things that produce better eating, like citrus and wild prickly pears. If I lived at a higher elevation, blue oaks (the acorns are tannin free) and pinyon pines. There’s ricegrass (a desert variety of wild rice) in the yard, sago lilies (an onion), ajo garlic, red amaranth (seeds and leaves), a variety of ‘wild flowers’ that are good herbals, and so on. We always get complimented at the beauty of our flower beds 🙂 The ‘peas are about done (yori cahui, a yardlong cowpea) and garden peas coming up. Tepary beans, peanuts, ‘pretty’ vines that are sweet potatoes, canna lilies (grown for a very high quality starch in the roots, for the shoots (AKA Inca asparagus), and leaves that can be used for cooking. Oh, yeah, moringa, date palms are coming along, grape vines, banana yucca, soaptree yucca (fruit is used when small as a veggie, yucca leaf fiber make good rope and coarse cloth), the roots are food or, if needed, natural soap, and hackberries.

              Anything planted close to the house and along the fences is a defense and food. All things appear as ornemental, but all but the durn iris are food, and often very good eating. Look up clergylady on Preppers. Very smart, very practical and very much experienced at prepping. niio

              Reply to this comment
          • red December 11, 03:54

            When SHFT happens, Armin. No, it won’t last decades, but how long is too long? Even a few weeks, but more like a few years, and the world crumbles without the US to help.

            Where a nickle is to be made, someone will try to earn it. the first power company in the world was Wilkes-Barre, Penna. The next was if memory serves, Saltillo, MX, then Hermosillo and Mexico City. Eventually, stock was sold and companies formed. In the early days of steam ships, ships on the Nile and suez canal had no wood of coal handy. They burned mummies. Gross, but true. I recall reading that post-SHFT (Bible, Time of Tribulation, ect.) Israel will be 7 years burning all the bodies from Armageddon. As fuel? Maybe. Where there’s a need, someone will fill it.

            Feral dogs and cats, we don’t worry about that here. Coyotes eat every stray they can find, even tho packrats, rabbits, and doves are plentiful. In the city or highly populated areas, yes. Dogs are going to hunt people when the bodies run out. I think they had that problem on Vashon Island decades ago with summer people abandoning dogs, but there were no wolves on the island to kill them. Now, the coyote problem is there and people are afraid for their children. Bobcats will try for a man if hungry but will kill every cat they find.

            No, cremating anything or anyone can lead to people looking for a meal. Better to bury them deep and use that spot for a garden. Flowers if you feel that way. Mine got so careless last summer, hawks almost took him twice, and he had a run-in with Mouser, a rattler that keeps the garden free of rodents. Yeah, ol’ Mouser just wants to love him, I’m sure. to death. A toxic kiss and big hug 🙂 He was almost nailed so many times he got scared of going out alone!

            Reply to this comment
            • The Ohio Prepper December 12, 17:57

              Red,

              When SHFT happens, Armin. No, it won’t last decades, but how long is too long? Even a few weeks, but more like a few years, and the world crumbles without the US to help.

              That’s true, since the US has bailed out more countries for years than any other. Had the US not stepped into WW II, we would all be speaking German.

              Where a nickle is to be made, someone will try to earn it. the first power company in the world was Wilkes-Barre, Penna. The next was if memory serves, Saltillo, MX, then Hermosillo and Mexico City.

              Not really, since it was a result of Edison (the con man) and Tesla (the genius) and their ”War of the currents”.
              The Edison Electric Light Company was founded in 1878 by Thomas Alva Edison to market his incandescent lamp powered by a series of DC generators in the NY city area.

              Then in 1895, Tesla and industrialist George Westinghouse created the world’s first hydroelectric power plant at Niagara Falls. They beat out Thomas Edison (Tesla’s rival) and changed the way the world works, since AC is hands down more efficient for a power grid.

              Dogs are going to hunt people when the bodies run out. I think they had that problem on Vashon Island decades ago with summer people abandoning dogs, but there were no wolves on the island to kill them. Now, the coyote problem is there and people are afraid for their children. Bobcats will try for a man if hungry but will kill every cat they find.

              Yet one more reason to be armed, everywhere you go. Except when sleeping or in certain restricted areas, I have a handgun on my person at all times, with spare magazines and often a 2nd firearm.

              Reply to this comment
              • red December 14, 04:23

                Ohio: Very true, tho I don’t know as much of Tesla as of Edison. But, again, where a nickle is to be made, someone will be there to earn it–and a few others to steal it. Were it not for coyotes and bobcats, ranchers would be overrun with stay dogs. Most of the strays are pit bulls and black labs but coyotes get them tangled in the cactus. niio

                Reply to this comment
            • Armin December 12, 23:54

              But how will we know, Red? How can we? There’s no way of knowing how long the next great calamity or disaster will last. And I’m always speaking about the worst case scenario. A true end of the world situation where everyone on the planet is involved. And in a case like that there will be no more United States of America to bail ANYONE out.

              Reply to this comment
              • The Ohio Prepper December 13, 14:08

                Armin,

                But how will we know, Red? How can we? There’s no way of knowing how long the next great calamity or disaster will last. And I’m always speaking about the worst case scenario. A true end of the world situation where everyone on the planet is involved.

                I’m not red; but, here’s my input,
                While we can prepare for any conceivable event within our budgets, the truth is that there can be some events that are simply too catastrophic or long term to be survivable.
                People in the PDRK watched huge wildfires coming their way, and could to little but evacuate.
                Earthquakes and their often related tsunamis simply strike and the best you can do there is often that same evacuation.
                We’re in good shape unless we have a direct tornado strike.
                The best we can do is the best we can do.
                In my personal case, if a true long term societal disruption occurs that last more than about 4 years, I will be gone, since my pacemaker battery will be depleted and the pacemaker will need to be replaced mid 2023.
                We do what we can and simply have to face the sometimes uncomfortable facts, knowing that our preparedness lifestyle, will give us an edge over most “normal” people.

                Reply to this comment
              • red December 14, 04:46

                Like Ohio said, you can’t. Stay prepped. America will survive as long as preppers do. the world’s ended more times than we can count, but people always survived it.

                Mind the government. the liberals are always ready to destroy everything for a few dollars and some slaves. Keep up with politics, keep a level head, and do not tell anyone even other preppers what you’re doing.

                Do you practice hidden gardens? Fruits and flowers that are food, but not seen as more than ornamental. Most are either perennials or self-sewing annuals. Some even help defend the house, like cactus and safflower (very thorny, but the seeds are worth it). a food forest can be planted densely and is often thorny enough (blackberries and so on) no one who doesn’t understand the maze will try to get thru it.

                The spaces between uprights in inner walls can be lined with copper sheeting and filled with bags of dried food.

                Plastic doesn’t decay if kept out of the sun. If it’s sealed, you can store pretty much anything in it and bury it under the garden. You can store money, coffee beans, bullets, and so on in them if they’re sealed. Glass tends to crack with time. A copy of the deed, or any agreements that had to be on paper, and so on can be stored there. For that matter, smart sticks with entire medical libraries, audio books of herbals, and history. Jugs and jars should have tight lids and be buried upside down and do it as deep as possible, but with a need to hurry to resupply when needed.

                Every house should have a water recovery system to catch rain and snow melt, storing it underground if possible. while not the cleanest source, it’s still drinkable with a little bleach or iodine added. a 55 gallon drum is used as a filter. A lot of older homes already have them but they’re plugged up. Family in Ohio dug theirs out around their homes and resealed them. Best water in a hard water or black water area to wash clothes with is rain water.

                Like Dad said about war, Above all, keep your chin up and if worse comes to worse, take them to the grave with you.

                Reply to this comment
  20. harleybagheera December 10, 19:00

    Response to comment-479095 – Armin

    I have gone to Goodwill and Salvation Army and found (very inexpensive) tops and pants/jeans that vary from 2-6 sizes larger than what I wear. Disguise yourself. I refuse to feel guilty for the blatant laziness of people who have grown to expect and demand the generosity of others. They have had the same amount of time to gather and scrape together that I have had. Their excuses fall on deaf ears. I refuse to starve to death with plenty of food in my house, just because others decided to play blond, while I was wise enough to prepare for my family. People reap what they sow.

    I was raised to stand on principles – right is always right and wrong is always wrong. When we were growing up, my dad always use to tell us, “If you are going to live by principles, there will always be someone that thinks you should die for them, as well. Be prepared for anything. Watch and be aware.”

    Look at The Ant and the Grasshopper, the Little Red Hen, and many other tales. The Takers always manage to find the Givers, and bully them (sometimes nicely) but manipulative).

    I believe that we are to take care of ourselves, and our families. If we come across someone who has fallen, is hungry, or bleeding, or naked, we are obligated to stop and do what we can to help. But when A Society becomes arrogant, lazy, and expecting others to take care of them – that is a completely different matter. We do not OWE them, as they think we do.

    When Nehemiah, in the Bible was told by God to rebuild the wall of their city, He also told them how to do it. The workers were to have a tool in one hand, and a weapon in the other. And the soldiers were to stand behind the workers.

    We will be expected by the masses to be afraid. We are expected to allow ourselves to be bullied and intimidated, and give them what they want, just because they say so. In my world, it won’t be that way.

    Thank you for responding. Don’t give up.

    Reply to this comment
    • Armin December 13, 01:06

      Thank you for that, harleybagheera. Give up isn’t in my vocabulary. And also the nasty “C” word. CAN’T. LOL! We can do anything we set our minds to. Who was it that said that the only thing to fear is fear itself? I completely understand what you’re saying about those that have taken the time and care to at least somewhat prepare and those that haven’t. But in a true EOTW scenario you may be underestimating the desperation of people that have been starving for a few weeks. I’m not asking anyone to STARVE along with their neighbours. All I’m asking people to consider is rationing themselves in that type of situation so that if everyone around them is actually starving to death and looks and acts like it then it may be wiser to at least LOOK like you’re also losing weight instead of looking well fed and healthy. And rationing also makes sense to me on another level as it will make our food stores last longer while we put our energy into making our gardens our primary food source. We can ration ourselves and still stay strong and healthy if done correctly. People aren’t stupid and if we’re the only ones that still look well fed after a month of everyone else starving we’ll stand out like a sore thumb. And we’ll also make a target of ourselves. And then they’ll MORE than resent us. They will want to kill us. Another point to consider. Maybe after a month or six weeks we won’t have to worry about those around us so much as they’ll start dying of starvation. That may not be an option for us. And the more I think about this the more horrible it becomes. I have no idea how the next great disaster is going to go down or what form it will take, harleybagheera. I think that the most dangerous period will be in the first few weeks after the people in the major population centres run out of food and start streaming out of the cities and into the countryside. And then we might be very glad to have our friends and neighbours standing along with us helping to defend our neighbourhood. But as always, everyone has to make those kinds of decisions for themselves and be prepared to live with the consequences of their actions. If my neighbours are prepared to stand with me then I see giving them a bit of food each day as an investment in our collective futures. But then they must also understand that I can’t do that forever and it’s their responsibilities to get their gardens up and running as quickly as possible. If they can’t do that then they become a liability. But if a true EOTW situation does happen then under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will I give out food to strangers coming to my door and then I will be glad that I also at least LOOK like I don’t have much food on hand. Any trespassers trying to sneak onto my property will be shot without any compunction or regret on my part. Plain and simple. No ifs ands or buts. And I will also come to the door armed and look like I mean it. At least one good knife and a machete on my person besides the gun in my hands. If they want to eff with me all it will get them will be a bullet through the head.

      Reply to this comment
      • efzapp December 13, 04:04

        Armin, my thoughts exactly.Begin rationing immediately so your food lasts longer and you blend in with others by losing weight and seeming desperate. Always answer the door armed to the teeth with back up close by. No warning shot; don’t waste the lead. Shoot to kill. If you have neighbors you trust you can help them initially making sure they learn to be self-sufficient because there a limit to the help. After a month or 2 many will have died and maybe new communities being formed. But I would still be wary and keep my stores to myself.

        Reply to this comment
        • The Ohio Prepper December 13, 12:49

          Efzapp,

          Begin rationing immediately so your food lasts longer and you blend in with others by losing weight and seeming desperate.

          If you keep enough long term staple stored foods on hand and cook mostly from scratch, then you are already significantly rationing, especially when compared to others eating prepared foods. A #10 can of navy beans and a little rice or wheat will feed a family for quite a while by adding your own time and labor to prepare and cook meals with it, and in the situation being discussed here, we will all have lots of time.

          Always answer the door armed to the teeth with back up close by. No warning shot; don’t waste the lead.

          I live rural and we do that at night or any time we don’t recognize the person at the door. In my classes we teach a simple thought about self protection vs. calling 911: “When seconds count, help is only minutes away”

          Shoot to kill.

          How would one do that?
          It’s better to shoot to stop the threat, since the dying can take place later once they are not a threat. Also, pre SHTF this suggestion will often put you in prison or worse.

          If you have neighbors you trust you can help them initially making sure they learn to be self-sufficient because there a limit to the help.

          My neighbors all help each other in the here and now and I would have it no other way.

          After a month or 2 many will have died and maybe new communities being formed.

          True, and once again, depending on your location, rotting corpses can cause another problem with numerous diseases running rampant. Make sure you can deal with that aftermath.

          But I would still be wary and keep my stores to myself.

          In general we do; but, our MAG all knows about each other and while it takes a while for vetting, everyone should try to form their own group.

          Reply to this comment
          • efzapp December 13, 23:28

            Lucky you, Ohio Prepper. I live in a city where most people don’t know their neighbors. I do own my house and have several fruit trees and a vegetable garden but it’s not that big. I’m always contemplating more security for ourselves and our stores. I know how to cook from scratch, can and dehydrate foods, I can sew in a pinch. I have my grandmother’s treadle Singer sewing machine but I need to be a new belt and an o-ring for it. I’d like to take it to someone how could take it apart and clean it and repair anything else on it. I’ve been shooting and hunting most of my life. For a city girl I have a whole lot of country in me, except give me that Rock and Roll! I also have solar generators and a water purifying equipment. I hope to survive but if not, I gave it a good try.

            Reply to this comment
            • The Ohio Prepper December 14, 03:39

              Efzapp,

              Lucky you, Ohio Prepper. I live in a city where most people don’t know their neighbors. I do own my house and have several fruit trees and a vegetable garden but it’s not that big.

              It’s only been a little luck, since being here took sacrifice and planning; but, was something we really wanted.
              I find it interesting that your neighbors are probably physically closer than mine; however, you often know them less well; but, that seems to be the same in cities everywhere.
              Even a few trees and a small garden put you well ahead of most. My one concern in a city however is the close vicinity of neighbors who may want to share in your bounty in hard times; but, you can only do what you can do.

              I’m always contemplating more security for ourselves and our stores.

              We live in good times for that with solar powered motion activated lighting, intrusion detection and cameras getting quite in expensive. While a bit more complex to install, I would suggest no wireless cameras, only wired units..

              I know how to cook from scratch, can and dehydrate foods,

              That is a good skill to have and unfortunately not one as common as one would hope.

              I can sew in a pinch. I have my grandmother’s treadle Singer sewing machine but I need to be a new belt and an o-ring for it. I’d like to take it to someone how could take it apart and clean it and repair anything else on it.

              My wife has her moms treadle machine; but, it’s been converted to use a motor. I’m hoping to find the treadel parts so we can convert it back or use it with dual power; but, even thgou we have a large Amish population, those old machines are too often treated as expensive antiques.
              You might check with Lehman’s in Kidron (actually Dalton) Ohio for those parts; but, finding someone local to install and repair would be something you would need to check locally.

              I’ve been shooting and hunting most of my life. For a city girl I have a whole lot of country in me, except give me that Rock and Roll! I also have solar generators and a water purifying equipment.

              Hey, we also have rock and roll here in the country and are not all hicks. LOL
              Your shooting experience might also be applied to your security; but, be sure to know the laws in your jurisdiction, since they can vary quite widely, especially in cities.
              For your water filtration, make sure you have identified good water sources if the taps run dry. Swimming pools, drainage ditches, and retention ponds around large buildings are good sources. Also a way to easily transport water some distance is a good idea.

              I hope to survive but if not, I gave it a good try.

              That’s all any of us can do. Good luck.

              Reply to this comment
            • red December 15, 07:53

              efzapp: I stopped listing to country because it all sounds like Rock today. why bother when I can just tune in a Rock station on the computer? Western Swing, Rock-a-billy, Bluegrass. Good stuff.

              ‘K, even when living in an apartment we had garden. One large fish tank, feeder fish, second shallow tank to raise duckweed to feed the carp. Water from the tank went to feed plants. Carp are called water pigs by Asians because they can be raised on about anything, and a small tank pump runs the water into the duckweed, purifies it, and sends it and some weed back to the carp. Now, we have a large yard, and are slowly working towards a rain water catchment and gray water/compost pit. BTW, carp are just as tasty as Salmon, when smoked. Still in the plans, windows over the water catchment to raise duckweed and fish. Catfish can be raised in a 55 gallon drum in the shade, please, and the water is very good in aquaponics. Any good, sunny window in winter makes a good place for an aquaponics step series, like using grow tubes. there are a lot of vids on Youtube that teach it, and how to do it on the cheap. A friend in an apartment in Cincinnati uses a fish tank and grow tubes, homemade, in his third floor apartment patio setup. It’s small, but they get tomatoes, peppers, and greens year-long. A woman up in Phoenix in a housing complex did that came. No pets, but fish were allowed. niio

              Reply to this comment
            • Hawthorn February 1, 19:15

              See if you can find a Sew & Vac nearby. I had one in Phoenix that could work on “antiques”… tuned up an old White I had. You can find replacement belts through them or online. Sadly I don’t own a treadle now, but I’ve asked my mother to see if my grandma will part with my great grannies’ machines. They would be a welcome sentimental addition to the new place & would receive use again.

              Reply to this comment
              • red February 2, 04:02

                there are plenty of vacuum shops in Tucson, but for anything like that, I’d need to go on-line to buy parts. the old singer is at my sister’s place in PA. I got a cast iron apartment-sized stove, a repro from Taiwan, but it looks good, but, needs a top and legs. the screwy thing is, before Trump got in, I could have had a couple for 25 bucks each. Now, people are collecting again. Same with bail jars. Lat bunch I bought, a few years back, a buck a quart. Now, 8 bucks. I like them for acid waterbath. tomatoes, pickles and so on. BTW, if you like kraut, try making summer kraut. Shred the cabbage and do not use salt. If it’s 80-85 F, it’ll ferment in a week to ten days, no mold. It stays crunchy even when frozen or cooked, and is the only kraut we use to make salad.

                did I ever ride…Now I want a thick steak 🙂 niio

                Reply to this comment
        • red December 15, 06:11

          efzapp: Warning shot: Take off an ear. 2nd warning shot: Ham wound. 3rd time they’re out of luck but in the short ruin, no 3rd time. Killing, as we know, calls for revenge killing. Best judgment is always you. An ugly crowd is a mob, like sheep. But, problem with sheep is they’re as likely to attack the ‘wolf’ as scatter. Always remember that, we are the wolves. Wolves think. They share with family members who are part of the pack.

          Remember the makeup kit. You can appear as haggard and hungry as the next person if you know the art. the CIA has books out on it. A few sets of clothes a larger size, wrinkled and maybe stained or damaged. A darker than normal smudge under the eyes. Unshaven. It’s wild how you can appear as a totally different person.

          SHFT should be considered short-run and if these are neighbors, that needs to be taken into consideration, as long as it doesn’t get you killed. Thank God I live in a very conservative county in a conservative state, and neighbors are preppering, often with hidden gardens and small livestock.Lessons from NYCity are looked at for keeping livestock in a home. Most homes here have a tole over concrete floor, and are ready for poultry or rabbits and a few goats. Hay and shredded brush is free for the hauling from any tree trimmer in the area. NYC is also well-known for aguaponics in homes and rooftop gardens. In NYC, is seems near everyone owns an unregistered gun or 6, and pack hollows between walls and under the floor with ammo and food. Plenty of people who know how to can and salt food, how to keep rodents out of it. They’re also moving west, into Jersey and PA, and forcing out neolib politicians. Most of the folks you see at farm markets looking for seconds (good fruit and veggies, but with marks or damage, and sold cheap for canning).

          Again, each scenario is different and a shift in thinking will be required. Again, killing always calls for revenge killing. niio

          Reply to this comment
          • efzapp December 15, 13:45

            Red, believe me I won’t be shooting people in the first week. The first week or two everyone is wandering around, wondering what’s going on. Living on whatever they can scrounge up or, hopefully, those last cans of mystery meat they got in the grocery stores’ stampede.
            Oh, we’ll join the stampede to blend in. They will be waiting for the gov’t to send help. Guess what? We’re going to be out there, too, like clueless dumb butts. After a month or two I think the herd will thin out. Many will try to find “greener pasteurs” in the good ol’ country. The people will become less and less. Gangs may arrive searching for anything and everything. I pray my defenses hold; if they come looking and asking for food we tell them we are on our last days of rations and have nothing. If they insist, we tell them we’re armed and will shoot. If they attack or try to break in I’ll shoot to kill. No more talk.

            Reply to this comment
            • The Ohio Prepper December 15, 15:53

              Efzapp,

              believe me I won’t be shooting people in the first week. The first week or two everyone is wandering around, wondering what’s going on. Living on whatever they can scrounge up or, hopefully, those last cans of mystery meat they got in the grocery stores’ stampede.

              I suspect you are talking about your situation or those of the urban & suburban dweller; but, here, me & mine, and our neighbors will more likely be coalescing our positions, communicating via phone or radio, trying to determine what has happened and on what scale, and planning our next moves or defense.
              Keep in mind those blizzards, ice storms, or other natural events with their accompanying power outages already happen here, and give us good practice for larger events.

              Oh, we’ll join the stampede to blend in. They will be waiting for the gov’t to send help. Guess what? We’re going to be out there, too, like clueless dumb butts.

              If this is really the case, then you have not thought it through very well.
              You should have a threat matrix and have at least planned mitigation for any conceivable scenario, or you will just become part of the herd, led to the slaughter. You are obviously here for a reason, and it’s time to make plans and face reality that you may have to lead the charge, at least for your own life, post SHTF.

              After a month or two I think the herd will thin out. Many will try to find “greener pasteurs” in the good ol’ country. The people will become less and less. Gangs may arrive searching for anything and everything.

              It will thin out; but, those who come to rural country will not be welcomed with open arms; but, by the potential for unmitigated violence.

              I pray my defenses hold; if they come looking and asking for food we tell them we are on our last days of rations and have nothing. If they insist, we tell them we’re armed and will shoot. If they attack or try to break in I’ll shoot to kill. No more talk.

              Do your defenses include more than just you?

              Have you practiced hitting moving targets while on the move or from behind cover under stress?

              Telling them you are on your last days of rations and have nothing, only means that you do have something, even if only a little, and if the two questions above about your skills, don’t have the right answers, you will surrender what you have, one way or another.

              Reply to this comment
              • efzapp December 15, 23:28

                Yup, Ohio Prepper, I’ve seen and played in the crazy hordes after a tropical storm that wiped out the electricity down here for a couple of weeks. Most people were okay; we still had running water (we purified it first just to be sure) and natural gas. But there was no gasoline or electronic money transactions. The biggest problem was no ice. Our city brought in ice and my brother got 6 bags for us. Luckily, I had enough ice chests. Since then I’ve gotten 2 solar generators so I’ll have ice and running fans in the summer.

                If it’s a real SHTF situation that lasts and not a regular weather fiasco which we know is temporary I will batten down the hatches. I won’t be exposing myself or family to the government overlords.

                Oh, yes, these dumb city dwellers will think everything will be better in the country. I guess you and folk like you will take care of them for me. Thanks.

                Yes, my defenses include more than just me. We’re all good shots. My father raised me to know that you only point a weapon at someone you mean to kill. The only time I did that was when I was 8 yo. I was home alone and someone was trying to come in to the house. I got the .410, .45 and a Bowie knife. I hoisted the .410 to my shoulder and told him to leave or I would shoot. I didn’t think about anything but doing as I was taught. But, now, I’ll tell them we have nothing though I doubt they will believe that. I might just secure the house the best I can and say nothing. Then if they try to enter just shoot. Let them figure out who, how many and what’s inside for themselves.

                Thanks for the insights to re-evaluate my situation.

                Reply to this comment
                • The Ohio Prepper December 16, 22:46

                  Efzapp,

                  I’ve seen and played in the crazy hordes after a tropical storm that wiped out the electricity down here for a couple of weeks. Most people were okay; we still had running water (we purified it first just to be sure) and natural gas. But there was no gasoline or electronic money transactions.

                  That lack of gasoline and electronic transactions are probably the hardest things to counteract.
                  Gasoline is hard to keep long term, unless you use it regularly and stabilize it. We have an elevated on farm tank that holds 125 gallons; but, you need to keep it full and keep using it, otherwise it can go bad.
                  Show up at the local Wal-Mart during a power outage with a wad of cash in your pocket and you may still not be able to purchase anything, since the items have no price tags and the UPC lookup may not be working, so except for smallish mostly rural stores with price tags and an old cash register, current society is firmly entwined with power and other infrastructure and can easily grind to a halt.

                  The biggest problem was no ice. Our city brought in ice and my brother got 6 bags for us. Luckily, I had enough ice chests. Since then I’ve gotten 2 solar generators so I’ll have ice and running fans in the summer.

                  Up here we can do without ice; but, in hot climates for a long term outage, we might be back to the north cutting ice from the lakes and shipping it south, for yet another economic opportunity. LOL

                  If it’s a real SHTF situation that lasts and not a regular weather fiasco which we know is temporary I will batten down the hatches. I won’t be exposing myself or family to the government overlords.

                  I don’t think you have to worry about what you call the “government overlords” in that case, since those agencies are run by people like you and me. I’ve volunteered with our county EMA for 20 years, and our agency and all of those we interact with are simply people, trying to do a job.
                  In an emergency, if we are out looking for people in trouble, knock on your door, and you are all squared away fine, we’ll note that and go on to others who may need the help. The more people who prepare, the less time we have to spend away from our families helping those who did not, and the only time government agencies may seem like overlords is when they have information you don’t and need to evacuate you from the path of something harmful. Around here that is rare; but, wildfires and hurricanes come to mind in some regions as the most probable.

                  Oh, yes, these dumb city dwellers will think everything will be better in the country. I guess you and folk like you will take care of them for me. Thanks.

                  I don’t foresee to many making it way out here, and to a point, if they are not belligerents, we may offer or trade for some little help.

                  Yes, my defenses include more than just me. We’re all good shots.

                  Good, since everyone has to sleep sometime and more eyes watching are better than fewer.

                  My father raised me to know that you only point a weapon at someone you mean to kill.

                  I firmly disagree with your father. You only point a weapon at a threat and only use it to stop that threat. I point a shotgun @ your head and you turn and run, it’s over.

                  The only time I did that was when I was 8 yo. I was home alone and someone was trying to come in to the house. I got the .410, .45 and a Bowie knife. I hoisted the .410 to my shoulder and told him to leave or I would shoot. I didn’t think about anything but doing as I was taught.

                  Keep in mind that had you shot and killed or harmed the intruder, you would have been in good shape as an 8 year old girl; but, try that as an adult, and things could turn out much different.
                  We practice our skills and polish our attitudes as we grow, and defensive posture and use of lethal force is something that needs to be in that continuum, lest we get in trouble pre SHTF.

                  But, now, I’ll tell them we have nothing though I doubt they will believe that. I might just secure the house the best I can and say nothing. Then if they try to enter just shoot. Let them figure out who, how many and what’s inside for themselves.

                  You should really have some way to ascertain their intentions, their numbers and their armaments, since a random shot might just make them fall back and burn you out, laying in wait around the place for those who try and escape.
                  These are things that need to be planned or war gamed well ahead of time, lest you be caught short and trapped.

                  Thanks for the insights to re-evaluate my situation.

                  Reevaluating your situation should be an ongoing task, and here’s a little piece I wrote to guide you and others on that journey.

                  ”The Threat matrix revisited”
                  Something you might want to do to organize your start is a technique called
                  ”The Threat Matrix” , that I will describe here. This tool is not hard or complex; but, will take some clear and honest thinking as you create it, and once it’s completed, you’ll have a map to start you on your way with some semblance of organization, and perhaps a little less stress. You can use paper and pencil, a dry erase board or Post-it Notes, or a spreadsheet or word processor, if you’re comfortable with one of those tools. Here is how you construct the one for your situation.
                  Start with a list of threats in prioritized order, with loss of your income, death in the family, or sudden acute illness at the top. Add global nuclear war and life ending asteroid strike at the bottom. Fill in the middle with the threats you and your family could actually face. As an example, in my location we can have blizzards and tornados; but, are not concerned with earthquakes or hurricanes and generally not much with floods or wildfires at my actual physical location, so be honest with yourself for your area, location, and situation.
                  Next, starting at the most likely / highest priority event, make a list of the resources required to mitigate that threat. A resource in this case would be Materials, knowledge, and/or skills.
                  Keep in mind also that often people confuse information, knowledge, and skills with each other. There is; however, a simple way to understand the difference and that is the application of each to your own situation. A library with all of its books or the internet with all of its web pages, podcasts, & videos, contains absolutely no knowledge. That content is only information. When you apply that information by reading, listening, or watching, then you gain knowledge when you start to understand the concepts.
                  That act of absorbing and understanding information does not however make a skill until you then apply that knowledge by ”doing” something to create a skill, and then practice that skill to become proficient. One additional concept to keep in mind is that the old maxim, ”Practice Makes Perfect” is only partially correct, since only ” Perfect Practice Makes Perfect” , especially when doing things that could be dangerous, like chopping or splitting wood or running a chainsaw, so take your time.
                  Once you have made your threat list, and added the knowledge, skills, and resources required to mitigate that threat, move on down to the next one on the list. What you will find is that as you move down the list, you start needing to add fewer & fewer items, since they have already been covered in the levels above. Once the matrix is complete, you have a plan with a map for the supplies, knowledge (books and other information), and skills to acquire, and like any journey, it just gets easier with a map to the destination.
                  Also, note that as you prepare your way down this list, other things you missed will pop into your head; but, be assured that this is normal, and as you move on this journey in an organized fashion, you should occasionally stop and smell the flowers, looking back for just a minute to see how far you’ve come. Always looking ahead will only tend to disappoint you, because this journey like life itself never has a final destination. I’ve been seriously on this journey and lifestyle for 50+ years, and still on occasion wonder what I’m missing.
                  Your journey forward into preparedness will be constantly changing as you acquire new resources or skills, many of which will then equip you to think of and ask questions that might not even have been thought of at the start, since we are often sometimes to ignorant to even ask the right questions. One of those resources are the incredible people here who are not too proud to admit ignorance and ask a question and often have the knowledge or skills to answer one., so don’t be shy and ask or answer.
                  Sometimes not knowing what we don’t know is our biggest problem; but, as you move forward, often very obvious things will pop into your head, at which point you go back and rework the matrix; but, I think you’ll find that it will only get easier and you will eventually gain some peace of mind.

                  Reply to this comment
            • red December 16, 00:11

              Good plan and that’s good advice for all of us. Thank you for the post. You have a good head on your shoulders and that give me hope.

              I think by month 2, cities will be almost empty but bands of people will be in either detainment camps or roaming in gangs. If the cops don’t join them, we’ll have some government to control the worse of it, but only afterwards. At this time, we’re setting up a ‘comity’ in town. Only those who are actually out doing things to help the community are allowed on it, volunteers, not paid-to-work. Most are preppers. this is as close to a town council as we want. Arizona has some great benefits, but those who refuse to fit in are encouraged to leave. If someone is on welfare, so what? As long as they hope to get off it as soon as possible, people accept that. Cities are always bad, no matter how conservative the state.

              And now, I bought two more turkeys. The breasts are boned out and frozen, waiting till we can grind them for sausages. The rest is in a roasting pan for tomorrow, but the chest bones were cooked for turkey pho (sourdough noodles). Cheap eating, and tasty. Because the breast meat has so little flavor, it can be made into almost any sausage. You walk in beauty!

              Reply to this comment
          • The Ohio Prepper December 15, 15:24

            Red,

            Warning shot: Take off an ear. 2nd warning shot: Ham wound. 3rd time they’re out of luck but in the short ruin, no 3rd time.

            I’m not sure what a Ham wound is; but, taking off an ear like the proverbial “right between the eyes” is quite a feat of marksmanship that not many could accomplish, unless they are highly trained both mentally and physically, especially under the stress of this kind of encounter.
            A shoulder or thigh would get the message for the 1st shot; but, if a 2nd shot is required then either knee or foot will stop even someone who is medicated by destruction of their physical, mechanical support.
            Follow-up shots would need to be at your discretion, based on the continued threat level.

            Killing, as we know, calls for revenge killing.

            This would depend on the circumstances; but, should not be taken lightly when other solutions are available.

            Best judgment is always you. An ugly crowd is a mob, like sheep. But, problem with sheep is they’re as likely to attack the ‘wolf’ as scatter.

            This can be very true and remember that a large herd of prey in a stampede can do serious damage to a small group of predators. We think of stampeding bison on the plains; but, keep in mind that people are sometimes killed this way in a rush at a sports stadium, with soccer somehow often being the prime example.

            Always remember that, we are the wolves. Wolves think. They share with family members who are part of the pack.

            You may be a wolf; but, I am not. I am a Sheepdog, best explained by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman in this excerpt from his book On Combat and well worth the read for those who have not read it.
            On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

            https://www.killology.com/sheep-wolves-and-sheepdogs

            Remember the makeup kit. You can appear as haggard and hungry as the next person if you know the art. the CIA has books out on it. A few sets of clothes a larger size, wrinkled and maybe stained or damaged. A darker than normal smudge under the eyes. Unshaven. It’s wild how you can appear as a totally different person.

            For one of the best examples of this along with a great story line, check out Tom Clancy’s 1993 book: ”Without Remorse” where a former Navy Seal seeks revenge on a drug dealer who killed a loved one. He purchases old clothing from a thrift store including a large frayed old coat he urinates on, allows his beard to grow, and hides in plain sight, outside of a building where his intended target resides.
            People who even notice a dirty smelly old bum do their best to ignore him, not realizing that under that oversized dirty coat are high tech surveillance devices and a trained man armed to the teeth.
            The opposite of this kind of outward appearance is the self important show off, often found beaten and robbed for that precious Rolex.
            Which are you?

            SHFT should be considered short-run and if these are neighbors, that needs to be taken into consideration, as long as it doesn’t get you killed. Thank God I live in a very conservative county in a conservative state, and neighbors are preppering, often with hidden gardens and small livestock.

            All of my neighbors including some miles away are similar conservative hard working rural people who know the value of helping others and know that help will come their way when needed. Gardens here are not hidden; but, are so numerous among the fields of crops and between the forest patches that they almost hide themselves. Everyone also keeps some livestock of some kind, and realizes that SHTF can happen on a small scale to anyone, any time, so it’s best that you are prepared. My last little SHTF moment came last year when the wife was out of town and I returned home from a meeting one evening with no water. It turned out the old pump had died; but, I had plenty of water for drinking and flushing and was able to get the pump replaced the next day, using a new spare kept on hand.

            Hay and shredded brush is free for the hauling from any tree trimmer in the area.

            Here also, but also from our own small woods, pastures, and fields, the reason we all have chain saws, hand saws and axes.

            In NYC, is seems near everyone owns an unregistered gun or 6, and pack hollows between walls and under the floor with ammo and food.

            Unregister guns?
            I guess that’s what you get living in a place that registers them. Here the only government intervention with firearms is the 4473 & NICS when you purchase a new one from a dealer. We just did this last week, and the entire process took only 15 minutes.
            For concealed carry we also have a license; but, the training is minimal; and the cost @ $50.00 for 5 years is negligible. Like a drivers license it applies to the person who then may carry as many or as few handguns as they want or may not even own one. Ohio also honors any permit or license from all other jurisdictions, asking that the person only obey Ohio specific laws on the matter.

            Again, each scenario is different and a shift in thinking will be required.

            This is not unlike our current personal situations having to deal with local laws, personal finances, and current relationships.

            Again, killing always calls for revenge killing. niio

            Yes and should always be well thought out, since all too often there are potentially grave ”Unintended Consequences.”

            Reply to this comment
            • red December 16, 01:27

              Oh, no need to shoot off the ear. This is one of those cases close counts. Ham? Fried eggs and–. South end of a northbound hog. Drug lords punish drug mules who screw up by shooting them there. A .22 works, the wound is that painful. No need to be a marksman with that one.

              Killing always calls for revenge killing. That’s how life in a 3rd world environment works. Unless something is done for revenge, then the victim’s family and friends are punks. No one will respect them and they lose turf, as well as position. That’s why the Hatfields and McCoy feud lasted from the Medieval era to modern times. You lose status, you lose everything. A wound is a warning. Even the best of friends can go nuts in a bad situation. And, as the saying goes, where a woman is involved, a man has no friends.

              Sheepdogs usually work alone. Wolves are family units. I’ll stick with being a wolf instead of a dog.

              Yeah, the CIA has books on how-to blend in, how to change your appearance with very little makeup. A well-shaved man with a little charcoal or dirt on his face looks like a completely different person.

              When I get to NYC or another city, I dress down. Sometimes too far. One trip, I was in New York in ragged cutoffs, sandals, and t, heading for a sunny summer day at Brighton Beach. Panhandlers were working the car. I was going to give a man a twenty but when he came to me, he sighed and said he hoped things would get better, then went to the next person. I learned from pros, some in the signal corp and retired CIA. Look well-to-do, wear black and people tend to avoid you. Look frustrated and haggard, most will avoid you. Look like Santy Claus, and it scars the be-jabbers out of mean little brats. I’m not gonna shave till Christmas Day. Call it a hobby.

              You live rural. Most I speak with are semi-rural or live in town. Why not replace flowers with food that can defend, as well? Wolfberries/goji get huge and make a good hedge complete with thorns, nice flowers, and food. Hawthorn berries should be cooked. Native cactus is food in spring and summer’s fruit but the thorns deter people. Here, madrone is popular for food, defense, and a wood so tough it defies tanks. It gets a berry on it, nice flowers and scarlet bark. Do not plant near a house because it can catch fire. It produces and volatile gas that has been used to scorch invaders. It grows so crooked and intertwined even small animals have trouble moving in it. It’s the best bow wood around, and I include Osage Orange in that. If you look, you’ll see plenty of things that feed, yet are hidden from most people.

              And, rural folks are more susceptible to raiding than even in the city. What warning do you have in case of raids? Yes, you have something. If you don’t want to mention it, I understand.

              Do not count on chainsaws or anything but hand tools. Even those can be confiscated if the local dictator, police or gangbanger, decides to screw you.

              A good hand pump is insurance. While I want a sump pump in the water catchment basin, I also want a hand pump.

              Yeah, NYC goes from conservative to elitist and back. PA, registering a gun is called insurance. AZ doesn’t care one way or the other. By law, we have a right to conceal carry. For that matter, it’s not uncommon to see men and women wearing gun belts or with shotgun boots on motorcycles.

              Post-SHFT, the law might come down hard on any killing, even self-defense. Even on being exonerated by the law, people still have to face lawsuits and so on. Look at Zimmerman and that screwball who attacked him. Trayvon’s neighbors came out and said thank God he was dead, he was that evil a person, yet, how is he treated? Look him up. “A high school student…” Makes him sound so innocent. And, Zimmerman is suing his parents, at last. God bless him for that. One part of the suit is for child abuse: AKA child neglect, endangerment, permitting a small child to run wild without supervision (witness state from the time ol’ Tray was in diapers, he was on the streets after dark). If he wins, people might demand the DP for Tray’s parents. We can only hope. Thank you for the post. niio

              Reply to this comment
              • The Ohio Prepper December 17, 13:34

                Red,

                Ham? Fried eggs and–. South end of a northbound hog. Drug lords punish drug mules who screw up by shooting them there. A .22 works, the wound is that painful. No need to be a marksman with that one.

                I thought that might be the case; but, had never heard it called that on a person. The one problem with that shot is that in a face to face confrontation, that part of the anatomy is rather hidden.

                Killing always calls for revenge killing. That’s how life in a 3rd world environment works. Unless something is done for revenge, then the victim’s family and friends are punks. No one will respect them and they lose turf, as well as position. That’s why the Hatfields and McCoy feud lasted from the Medieval era to modern times. You lose status, you lose everything.

                As I understand it the Italian families deep in La Cosa Nostra (Sicilian Mafia) had this attitude, since even a child left alive will grow up and seek revenge. While it seems a bit brazen to most of us, in that world I guess it made sense.

                A wound is a warning. Even the best of friends can go nuts in a bad situation.

                I guess so; but, my good friends of which I only have / had a few had the character to not behave that way. They would otherwise not have been friends.

                Sheepdogs usually work alone. Wolves are family units. I’ll stick with being a wolf instead of a dog.

                Sheepdog in this case is a rhetorical representation, and we do work in organized packs. Did you read the short piece: ”On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs:?
                That explains it all. Basically you can trust a sheepdog; but, can never trust a wolf.
                https://www.killology.com/sheep-wolves-and-sheepdogs

                When I get to NYC or another city, I dress down. Sometimes too far. One trip, I was in New York in ragged cutoffs, sandals, and t, heading for a sunny summer day at Brighton Beach. Panhandlers were working the car. I was going to give a man a twenty but when he came to me, he sighed and said he hoped things would get better, then went to the next person.

                I try to avoid all large cities; but, have been to NYC and Chicago a few times & LA once. When I have to go there, I dress the part and keep constant situational awareness, since if the thug notices you noticing him; he’s less likely to approach.

                Look well-to-do, wear black and people tend to avoid you. Look frustrated and haggard, most will avoid you.

                But look distracted and confused, watching your phone as you trip along and you signal all that you are a target, at least until you get hit by a car.

                Look like Santy Claus, and it scars the be-jabbers out of mean little brats. I’m not gonna shave till Christmas Day. Call it a hobby.

                I haven’t shaved since I graduated high school 50 years ago; but, I do keep it trimmed, often at the insistence of the wife.

                You live rural. Most I speak with are semi-rural or live in town. Why not replace flowers with food that can defend, as well?

                Flowers? If I can’t eat it, we don’t plant it. We have lots of black raspberries with thick thorny canes, and our wooded areas have a rather large number of MultiFlora rose, so we use natural impediments to our advantage.

                I include Osage Orange in that. If you look, you’ll see plenty of things that feed, yet are hidden from most people.

                We have quite a lot of Osage Orange / Hedge Apple on the property as well as it’s cousin, the Mulberry. The only edible part of the Hedge Apples are the seeds; but, while they are not generally a staple part of our diet, like cattail, we have tried them and could use them in a pinch.

                And, rural folks are more susceptible to raiding than even in the city. What warning do you have in case of raids? Yes, you have something. If you don’t want to mention it, I understand.

                We have 50 or more yards of clear fields of fire around the house, high vantage points from the barns and silo, neighbors who are also watching with noncommercial communications between us all. We also have wireless motion sensing intrusion alarms and solar powered motion activated flood lights and some HD cameras.
                Nothing is perfect; but, we do what we can

                Do not count on chainsaws or anything but hand tools. Even those can be confiscated if the local dictator, police or gangbanger, decides to screw you.

                Then he’ll also have all of our firearms and ammunition.
                The firearms will be hot & dirty, and the ammunition will have been delivered one round at a time.

                A good hand pump is insurance. While I want a sump pump in the water catchment basin, I also want a hand pump.

                We have a spare well pump and know how to change it and a generator to run everything. We also have a creek on the property and numerous ways for filtration; but, a hand ”pitcher” pump is on the list.

                AZ doesn’t care one way or the other. By law, we have a right to conceal carry. For that matter, it’s not uncommon to see men and women wearing gun belts or with shotgun boots on motorcycles.

                We were out there a few years ago working with a friend and owner of a company I co founded, and he and I and our wives spent some time up in Sedona. We took a jeep tour of the buttes; but, I remember quite a few guys running around in full cowboy garb complete with a real six shooter on each hip and no one giving them a 2nd look.
                The only problem with constitutional carry like AZ is that you cannot easily carry if you visit here in Ohio. Ohio honors all carry permits / licenses from any jurisdiction; but, people from states like AZ still have a problem with that situation unless they get the permit AZ offers.. Yet one more improvement needed to the law.

                Post-SHFT, the law might come down hard on any killing, even self-defense. Even on being exonerated by the law, people still have to face lawsuits and so on.

                Yep. The old maxim of tried by 12 instead of carried by 6,may apply here; but, my “Don’t go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things” might be a better option.

                Look at Zimmerman and that screwball who attacked him. Trayvon’s neighbors came out and said thank God he was dead, he was that evil a person, yet, how is he treated? Look him up.

                I understand that and followed it closely. Once again the problem was the ignorant or agenda driven media trying for headlines at any cost.

                Reply to this comment
                • red December 18, 17:33

                  Ohio: Ham is also used as part of the longpig terminology.

                  All of us behave differently in different situations. A coward can throw himself on a hand grenade, or a brave man panic. SHFT is going to see a lot of good, normal people dive off the deep end, people we would never believe it of. Look at the panic, Black Friday, 1929. confident, normal people took a header off tall buildings. War of the Worlds, 1938, the radio program. Even though they said constantly it was only a program, fiction, how many panicked and died, some killing their families? As the saying goes, where a woman is concerned, a man has no friends. Your mother, wife, sister, even a cousin. Where they’re concerned under SHFT, trust no one.

                  I under stand the metaphorical use of sheepdog. The use of the term wolf is biblical and from Native America. Family, sharing food with family, exclusion of strangers but open to new members. Wiley, sense of humor about the worse of situations. Used to describe the best of soldiers, the toughest, the most able in any situation.

                  I’ve seen sheepdogs turn on their owners, turn on the livestock and will go feral, and feral dogs have little fear of humans. Wolves will act in a given pattern. Dogs have lost most of that. We never had a problem with them in out livestock because they’re cleansers. Packs were encouraged to live near each town. In the even of a famine, an older animal, a horse of cow, sheep and so on, would be killed where they denned. In return, wolves killed or chased off mountain lions, coyotes, and warned of strangers snaking around our woods. Dogs stayed home and slept all night. You cannot trust a dog completely, and in Ohio I trained German Shepherds for the police to donate to the Society for the Blind. GS are probably the most stable, trainable dog I’ve ever handled. Dogs never mature.

                  LA sucks gas backwards. And I’m being polite 🙂 LLC is completely on with his talks of kali. Man know his stuff. I don’t go to the city, either, if I can help it. When a kid and bold as brass, yes. All of them, even in staunch conservative states, are owned by liberals. Owned by gangs. Yet, deals can be made there that save thousands of dollars for needed things. Cash, please, no checks of credits cards, and we’ll give a nice discount. Most city people understand the need to keep quiet and to fear the government. In Chicago, I picked up a pickup load of cowhides for a few dollars from the owner. No checks of credit cards, please. Took them home, dumped them in 10% acid, and a few weeks later sold them for 25 bucks each. Want cheap produce of fish? The docks, often the worse part of any city. Cash, please, no checks of credits cards, and we’ll give a nice discount. And then beat it out of the city, fast. I hate cities, but understand as you do, they have some use. Right now, people are willing to sell under the table, though not like under BO. Best time for blackmarket deals is always in a lib city with libs controlling the ‘free’ markets.

                  Yes! 🙂

                  Nasturtiums are uplands water cress and always used for food and flowers. Good greens, and the seeds make a good addition to salads. Amaranth, especially the reds and golds, flowers, flour, greens. Cockscomb, flowers and flour from the seeds. Roses, hips high in Vit C. Wall of thorns again most invaders. Climbing roses were used as a defense for houses in much of the world from ancient times. Moringa, flowers, seed pods, roots, and leaves all good for good eating. Ornamental okra, peppers, melons like kajari (women like the red and white fruit), crab apples, hawthorn food and defense. Buffalo gourds, small bad but cucumber beetles love them more than any other vine in the family. Toxic fruit, nice flowers, seeds very good to eat. Prickly pear cactus, eatable pads and fruit and plenty of thorns. Most things Native Americans developed for food were also chosen because the women, who owned the fields, liked things pretty. Day lilies, animals like the leaves, we get the tubers and flower buds to fry. Canna lily, roots for starch (AKA Queensland, second most expensive on the market, and easiest to make), leaves for livestock or to cook in, seeds ground for flour. The list is extensive and any area has tons of stuff few people in their area see as food or medicine, yet was domesticated for one or both, like calèndula. Purdue is a good source of knowledge for so-called famine foods. https://www.purdue.edu/hla/sites/famine-foods/ Most are considered very ornamental. Teff and ricegrass make nice lawns. We always get nice comments on ‘my, how pretty your gardens are!” yep, the are. Red okra, blue tomatillo (taste like blueberries), those pretty violet flowers that turn into reddish cowpea beans, nice bushes that produce red, gold, and even purple chilis. Very pretty in the cook pot, too 🙂 If you can grow cattails, why not wild rice? Why not ground nuts? Your kind likes very moist soil. Ours, a legume, loves it on the dry side, looks good as a flower (ferny growth, a lot of flowers), and livestock like the leaves. Best of all, the nut that grows underground. Sorry for chatting at you, but this is a subject I love. Most plants will self-sow or are perennials. Most are either deer- and rabbit proof, or benefit from some feeding on them.

                  Yes, you’re well-set where you are. Most raiders won’t give a damn about military defenses, and many will be suicidal, the zombies followed by creepy-crawlies who see you are their next meal. There’s a good survivalist story about two men and a woman who were shipwrecked. The major inhabitants were wild hogs and goats. Hogs kept the goat population low enough that the goats survived and even thrived. But, then they saw the humans as prey. The people were fast to discover that hogs attacked them because, even killing so many, all they did was feed the hogs more meat than they could get hunting goats. But, one thing I like is, you’re not alone, but have good neighbors. I wish I could remember the title of that book. It taught ship building, gun powder, and survival. I’ll have to see if one of the kids still has a copy.

                  When a military force comes to your door, then what? I do mean legally. I do mean backed by the government. One heavy round of puke gas, then what? Or a fire. This is another reason why Native Americans into hidden gardens and concrete floors. When was the last time someone tried to confiscate a Rose of Sharon bush, a hibiscus? Other than deer, of course 🙂 Your raspberries are in constant danger of animals and herbicides, and in a lot of states multiflora roses are outlawed as noxious weeds, like Ohio. Rosa rugosa, no, and give large rosehips. They also make a nearly impenetrable hedge.

                  How much do you depend on computers and computer chips? No thing electronic is reliable. Remember Murphy’s Law. One of those ‘cute’ lawn windmills can be used to pump from a shallow well. You know how to build one and one big enough to grind grain, as well.

                  You were down in Sedona? I have friends down there. One refused to pay for a well with their new house. All his water is in catchment basins. Yet, when the drought hit its second year, he still had water while neighbors were hauling theirs when their wells ran dry. It’s that sort of area 🙂

                  SHFT, too many will get stupid. And, to the news media, we’re the enemies. Welcome to Native America. niio

                  Reply to this comment
                  • The Ohio Prepper December 18, 20:20

                    Red,

                    Ohio: Ham is also used as part of the longpig terminology.

                    I suspect that’s correct; but, not something I plan for our meal table.

                    All of us behave differently in different situations. A coward can throw himself on a hand grenade, or a brave man panic.

                    True; but, a lot depends on your training and previous experience. Personally I tend to jump into action; but, pretty much collapse after the event concludes. I’ve been told that it’s probably an adrenaline situation where at the conclusion I just run out of steam.

                    SHFT is going to see a lot of good, normal people dive off the deep end, people we would never believe it of.

                    No doubt; but, I have to ask, what is SHFT? LOL

                    Look at the panic, Black Friday, 1929. confident, normal people took a header off tall buildings.

                    Although it was reported and was wishful thinking, this is total myth.
                    After the 1929 stock market crash, did investors really jump out of windows?
                    https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2412/after-the-1929-stock-market-crash-did-investors-really-jump-out-of-windows/

                    From the article in part:

                    People wanted to believe in it at the time. Even while the financial meltdown was in progress, reporters in downtown Manhattan were checking out a rumor that 11 busted brokers had jumped out of windows. London newspapers gleefully told of pedestrians threading their way through the bodies of fallen speculators. Legend has it that the cops dragged one poor guy off a ledge, only to discover that he was just a window washer. Will Rogers observed, “When Wall Street took that tail spin, you had to stand in line to get a window to jump out of,

                    War of the Worlds, 1938, the radio program. Even though they said constantly it was only a program, fiction, how many panicked and died, some killing their families?

                    While there was a lot of hysteria, mass suicide and Familicide was another myth.
                    When Mars Attacked 75 Years Ago—And Everyone Believed It
                    https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-mars-attacked-75-years-agoand-everyone-believed-it

                    As the saying goes, where a woman is concerned, a man has no friends. Your mother, wife, sister, even a cousin. Where they’re concerned under SHFT, trust no one.

                    That’s why my wife has her carry permit.

                    I also understand the metaphorical use of Wolf; but, all of my training has been in the sheepdog context as defined in Grossman’s excellent books: ”On Combat”, ”On Killing”, and others.

                    But, then they saw the humans as prey. The people were fast to discover that hogs attacked them because, even killing so many, all they did was feed the hogs more meat than they could get hunting goats.

                    That does not surprise me and reminds me of an old science fiction story. I cannot recall the name; but, in the basic story line. An astronaut travels to an alien planet with a disintegration gun, where he field tests the weapon on some hostile alien creatures.
                    Things go wrong, he gets injured, he shoots part of his ship and takes off a mountain top with the weapon, leaving him stranded.
                    Eventually the people who hired him come looking for him and find him living on the land with a bow and arrow, and using the gun as a hammer.
                    It turns out that when attacked by a pack of creatures, making some just disappear, didn’t dissuade the others; but, shooting one with an arrow and it making blood and painful sounds, the others paid attention and left him alone.

                    But, one thing I like is, you’re not alone, but have good neighbors.

                    And organized neighbors.

                    I wish I could remember the title of that book. It taught ship building, gun powder, and survival. I’ll have to see if one of the kids still has a copy.

                    If you remember, please post it.

                    When a military force comes to your door, then what? I do mean legally. I do mean backed by the government. One heavy round of puke gas, then what?

                    In that case I would have to comply; but, a real force is unlikely to come after little old me, and those who worry about this I think have serious delusions of grandeur or are involved in illegal activities.

                    Your raspberries are in constant danger of animals and herbicides, and in a lot of states multiflora roses are outlawed as noxious weeds, like Ohio.

                    For Raspberries, animals yes; but, not herbicides, since we don’t use any and those who use them on crops are hundreds of yards away and they have been doing quite well for the last 35+ years.
                    For MultiFlora rose, they just grow naturally in most of our wooded areas.

                    How much do you depend on computers and computer chips? No thing electronic is reliable.

                    I have some dependence on them; but disagree with your assertion about reliability; however, I have been working with them for 52 years including from scratch designs of both hardware & software and have more than 20 various systems or boards I can use for various things, as well as the spare parts, test equipment, and expertise to keep them running.

                    Remember Murphy’s Law. One of those ‘cute’ lawn windmills can be used to pump from a shallow well. You know how to build one and one big enough to grind grain, as well.

                    I do and have worked on them, since most of the Amish around here use them to run a modified pitcher pump.

                    You were down in Sedona?

                    Actually up in Sedona for 2 days and 1 night, mostly as a tourist. Looked around and took a ride in a ”Pink Jeep” that climbed all around the switchbacks and boulders.

                    Reply to this comment
                    • red December 19, 04:33

                      Ohio: I know, 🙂 Like the CIA say, never waste a good body. Recycle, recycle, recycle. Awesome addition to the compost. Just ask the folks in Luzerne Co., about it. 🙂

                      Experience not needed in order to commit suicide. I’m seen skinny wasted chickens jump into a battle to save someone, and real bravos panic and run. One, the son of cousin, never turned his back on a fight, but when the Iranians opened fire on him his first time, he ran. It didn’t happen again. You do not know what, till it happens.

                      SHFT: Typo…mebbe 🙂 Call it Freudian. Pre-SHTF–Shift to lower gear. Things may collapse all at once, they might take several years to slide down the manure heap. Things might collapse, then a lull where all seems back to normal, then SHTF, but SHTF is a given.

                      In a more serious mode, your source is based on the author, Glabraith’s work. While hardly a massacre Hollywood erotica fantasies about, there were a lot of suicides, quite possibly far more than we know. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1987/10/25/the-jumpers-of-29/17defff9-f725-43b7-831b-7924ac0a1363/ I would think most were thought out, not panicked. After all, that’s why there’s a suicide clause in life insurance policies. If you want, you could consider FDR being voted in as a sort of national suicide. !

                      All of mine carry, as well. It’s expected. Guns make a polite society. Most were trained by weapons experts, like military or just by wasting ammo. My ex in Mexico said most of the people she knows today have M16s (thanks to Holder), and pray for the souls of poor solders of the drug lords who made the mistake of thinking arrogance is macho. Not around women, it’s not. Just the same, for a thousand generations, women wanted a warrior. All of ours expect it. My grandmother and mother told the boys going to the military, come home with your shield or on it–an old Native American tradition. It wasn’t a suggestion.

                      Yes, sheepdog is understood and the books are worth studying. But remember, Native America is based on the wolf. Does our military go to combat like a sheepdog or wolves, today? Where dem lies and cheating didn’t work, it took an average 40 soldiers per every man, woman, and child to stop a war. And, many were never stopped, only withdrew and remained free.

                      Sorry, was thinking Sauhuaripa, but Sedona for us is still downhill 🙂 How was the tour? The Pink Jeep is all over that part of the country now. If you like trout, right now most tributaries of the Colorado, up in the Canyon, have unlimited trout. There’s some razorback hunting, as well. niio

                    • The Ohio Prepper December 21, 15:48

                      Red,

                      Recycle, recycle, recycle. Awesome addition to the compost. Just ask the folks in Luzerne Co., about it.

                      I don’t know about Luzerne County; but, I don’t know anyone who puts any animal parts (meat or bones) in the compost, since it doesn’t decompose, just rots and attracts critters who dig it up.

                      Yes, sheepdog is understood and the books are worth studying. But remember, Native America is based on the wolf. Does our military go to combat like a sheepdog or wolves, today?

                      All of the military people I know consider themselves sheepdogs, with the only occasional wolf from contingents of the U.N., who abuse their authority and have to be put down. I recall a contingent from Congo who were wolves who robbed & raped the populations they were sent to protect until the sheepdogs stopped them.

  21. Hillbilly December 10, 20:47

    The safest thing to do is keep silent about your prepping…and don’t cozy-up to nosy neighbors.

    Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper December 13, 12:29

      Hillbilly,

      The safest thing to do is keep silent about your prepping…and don’t cozy-up to nosy neighbors.

      That really depends on your location (urban vs rural) and the character of your neighbors.
      Most of my rural neighbors know our situation and we know there’s. We already support each other with excess foods (we have eggs and they often have extra vegetables), plus we have a variety of skills and resources the others don’t have. We have a large house and a whole house generator with plenty of fuel and maintenance consumables.
      One neighbor is a fire chief / paramedic married to a nurse practitioner.
      Another has a skid loader we’ve used for moving dirt, gravel, and other things, big tractor with a blade and has kept our driveway snow free for 30+ years, and other neighbors bring other skills and resources to the mix.
      As a Certified Instructor, I have trained (pro bono) several of them to qualify for the Ohio CHL (Concealed Handgun License) and many of us get together in the summer for group training and target practice here on the farm. We hunt each other properties and all in all simply get along.
      If you live somewhere this cannot be accomplished, I feel sorry for you.

      Reply to this comment
      • red December 24, 03:08

        Ohio: This is not an argument. It’s a discussion. But, if you need to know it took 40 of your sheepdogs for every man, woman, and child on average to bring Native Americans to heel. Even then it was iffy. Do th math. Geronimo with a handful of men, several thousand American troops and far more in Mexico. It took lies and deceit to defeat him. Dedanvwa: Knowledgeable in the ways of wolves. This is why America turned from Eurasian style of warfare to Native American. Fewer soldiers lost (Eurasian soldiers were cannon fodder). More of a guaranty of victory. Modern soldiers are wolves and trained to be. Wolves have honor. Dogs lick the filth from their owner’s feet. Dogs are allowed to roam in even cities where they’re despised because they clean up all filth, even human wastes. Eurasians used swine for this as well as dogs.

        Please do not bring Eurasian superstitions into the conversation. Bible, David, a shepherd, loved wolves. He made war like a wolf. He defeated every enemy sent against him. Eurasians act like every wolf is a werewolf and this is where the term act like wolves came from. It’s not reality based, but superstition. Euros even changed the Bible to suit their superstitions, referring to wild dogs as wolves. BTW, proof of this, there are no wolves south of the Sahara. In Israel, they promote wolves to return to forests being rebuilt. They cleanse the land of stray dogs, which do attack and kill people. We have wolves nearby here, and where wolves are, coyotes, stray dogs, mountain lions, and bobcats are all very polite. Where wolves are, you never hear of a child being killed by one of the former mentioned predators.

        I said nothing about throwing away bones and meat in a compost pile. The body thing was a joke. The manure heap is better, anyway. Or an old mine pit. Methane digester…Better have a good grinder for that.

        Reply to this comment
        • The Ohio Prepper December 24, 03:33

          Red,

          This is not an argument. It’s a discussion.

          Actually it’s a metaphor which you would see if you read the piece I posted.
          I am well aware of the guerilla techniques of Native Americans that were also used by the early settlers against the British.
          That march between Lexington and Concord for the 1st gun control & confiscation was quite a slog for the British for that reason.

          Reply to this comment
          • red December 24, 13:38

            I read what you posted. Green Mountain Boys, the Swamp Fox, The Susquehannocks, and so on destroyed the Brits in two wars. It still took European military until WWII to finally figure it out. The Aztec learned too late the Maya were right. Most Maya are still independent because of ancient battle tactics. the Moskitos lost 905 of their population due to genetic cleansing before they listened to Reagan, and then wiped out the USSR in Nicaragua with only 1,200 people, most of them children. Wolves rule. niio

            Reply to this comment
  22. Hillbilly December 13, 18:19

    I still stand by my original comment: “The safest thing to do is keep silent about your prepping…and don’t cozy-up to nosy neighbors.”

    Silence is better than broadcasting. And it is unwise to cozy-up to nosy people; nosy people can and will cause much trouble.

    Good neighbors are few and far between. They are like true friends; you count them on one hand and not run out of fingers.

    Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper December 14, 03:03

      Hillbilly,

      I still stand by my original comment: “The safest thing to do is keep silent about your prepping…and don’t cozy-up to nosy neighbors.”

      We actually have no nosey neighbors; but, we only really have two physically close neighbors with which we interact, and they live 50-100 yards away and have very busy lives of their own. Too busy to be nosey.

      Silence is better than broadcasting. And it is unwise to cozy-up to nosy people; nosy people can and will cause much trouble.

      For nosey people who are not neighbors I agree, although the preparedness classes I teach could give some an idea of my capabilities, since we expound those ideas in the classes, with no real details on our personal capabilities.

      Good neighbors are few and far between. They are like true friends; you count them on one hand and not run out of fingers.

      That may well be true, and the ones I can count live anywhere from 50-100 yards and as far away as 5-8 miles, but that’s a typical rural neighborhood with rural people who have a different perspective on self reliance, having practiced it most of their lives.

      Reply to this comment
    • red December 15, 07:13

      Hillbilly: ain’t that the truth 🙂 Most here keep to themselves unless you are in need. Lazy people and moochers are encouraged to move. niio

      Reply to this comment
  23. Hillbilly June 27, 11:59

    Don’t let other people know that you are prepping. Go about your life as usual. Do not give your nosy family and neighbors a window into private life.

    Reply to this comment
    • red June 27, 22:25

      Hillbilly (I can almost hear my grandmother rummaging in her purse for the hairbrush for using that word 🙂 I live in a small town and half the folks here are preppers. Good and bad, but mostly good. We share food, seeds, and ideas. With 100 F and higher temps now, most folks stop gardening till the monsoons, but experiment, as well. More folks are putting in female date palms, citrus, and moringa. Anything that can survie summers here is being tried.
      niio

      Reply to this comment
    • red June 29, 14:06

      hillbilly: Not here. Lots of new folks, yes, but most here tend to shoot straight–and yes, I do mean that. While there is some crime, it’s from temporary people, not those who want to live here. It’s Indian Country. I can leave the house for a week, and have, and no one would dream of coming in let alone robbing me. Too bad I can’t say that about the javelina and durned birds raiding the garden 🙂 maybe invest in dry cat food, and be done with the birds, at least. niio

      Reply to this comment
  24. Hillbilly June 29, 11:36

    My location and surroundings are probably different than that of most other folks. After 19 years, my small rural lot has gradually become surrounded by new people (most of whom don’t/won’t/don’t have to work. I am continually having to re-enforce my security to prevent theft and destruction. It’s hard.

    Reply to this comment
View comments

Write a comment

<

Follow Us