What Are the Civil Liberties that You Will Lose When Corona Virus Comes to Our Country?

Anne
By Anne March 12, 2020 09:08

What Are the Civil Liberties that You Will Lose When Corona Virus Comes to Our Country?

The way the coronavirus epidemic is going, a lot of us must be breathing a quiet sigh of relief that we’re preppers. The whole country – in fact half the western world – is now rushing around trying to do things we all took care of long ago. We don’t need to panic buy canned food and toilet paper, because we already have stockpiles that will last through the epidemic. We’re not afraid of being thrown back on our own resources for a while, because we actually have the resources to get through that. We’re even prepared for society to fall apart; that’s part of a lot of SHTF scenarios.

Don’t relax too much, though. The odds of coronavirus actually bringing society down aren’t high. It’s potentially a serious crisis, but not on the scale of an EMP or major civil unrest. The chances are our society will come through it, creaking and wobbling in places, but basically still stable. The question is how it will be changed by the experience.

Most people expect the government to help protect them against epidemics like this. Politicians at all levels are getting involved, taking steps they hope will slow the spread of the virus. That’s all great, but the problem is a lot of those steps involve restricting our civil liberties.

Related: Do You Know Your Rights Under Martial Law?

Dangers to freedom

Preppers tend to value civil liberties more than most people. We’re independent, and don’t like having our lives run for us; we’d rather make decisions for ourselves. The problem is that most responses to an epidemic involve some restrictions on our freedoms. Travel gets restricted. Public events are outlawed. Emergency regulations get passed to prevent panic buying and hoarding.

There’s a balancing act here and governments aren’t very good at it. These rules all make sense when there’s an epidemic going on. If one part of the country has cases of coronavirus you don’t want potentially infected people traveling from there to areas the disease hasn’t reached yet. Having our freedom to go where we want restricted is never a small price to pay, but if the alternative is spreading a lethal virus to new states, new cities, it’s a price worth paying. The same goes for banning sporting events and other public gatherings. We treasure our right to freely assemble, but does it make sense to have thousands of people packed together when one of them could be sneezing out clouds of virus?

The Constitution is an instruction manual for a free society; it’s not a suicide pact. It makes sense to accept some of these restrictions on our freedom when there’s an imminent danger from something like coronavirus. The problem is that instead of imposing sensible, moderate restrictions early enough to do some good, then removing them again when they’re not needed anymore, politicians tend to leave it too late and overreact. Then the new rules have a nasty habit of becoming permanent.

Related: 15 Modern Laws That Would Get Our Grandfathers Arrested

What can we expect?

One of the most sensible things the government can do to slow the spread of coronavirus is to ban public gatherings. The virus seems to be a lot more infectious than scientists thought just a couple of weeks ago; it can hang around in the air for up to half an hour, and infect people more than ten feet from the carrier. If you have thousands of people close together, and any of them are infected, they could potentially infect hundreds more.

Sporting events are being played without spectators. So far this is all happening voluntarily or after “advice,” but as the virus spreads we could see local, state and federal governments passing actual bans on public assemblies.

Even most libertarians agree this is reasonable – but what if politicians start to use these bans against political meetings or legitimate protests? The First Amendment affirms our right to free assembly, and it does that for a reason – so we can put pressure on the government if we don’t like what it’s doing. Maybe we can accept the government suspending this right, temporarily, so we don’t all get a dangerous disease, but you can bet a lot of politicians will be tempted to turn suspension into abolition and take this right away permanently.

Restricting movement is another way to fight epidemics. In the age of air travel, disease can spread with frightening speed. Ebola is a disease that’s always been confined to a few small areas in Africa, mostly because it kills its victims before they have a chance to get very far. Then in 2014 a Liberian man who’d helped an Ebola victim got on a flight to Dallas.

We dodged a bullet there. The Liberian died; two nurses were infected, but recovered. There was no mass outbreak of Ebola in the USA – but there could have been. A flight ban from infected areas is a sensible thing for the government to do. The thing is free travel is another constitutionally-guaranteed right – it’s in the Privileges and Immunities Clause – and it’s one that’s key to a free society. Again, this is a right that we’d seriously miss if the government kept restrictions in place after the epidemic’s over.

Finally, there’s something we’re already starting to see stores do voluntarily – rationing goods. A lot of people respond to the growing worries about the epidemic by panic buying. Things like face masks, hand sanitizer, soap and bottled water are running out in a lot of stores. In the UK people are panic-buying toilet paper for some reason. Stores are starting to tell customers there’s a limit to how much of these items they can buy.

If people keep buying these items in bulk the government could step in to limit supplies. The US Surgeon General has already appealed for people to stop buying face masks because medics are having trouble getting them. The next step is for emergency laws to ration what people are allowed to buy – and even, possibly, a ban on “hoarding” rationed items. That’s obviously a serious threat to preppers, because stockpiling essential supplies is a pretty huge part of our preparations.

Realistically, the choice right now is simple: Accept some temporary restrictions on our civil liberties, or potentially watch thousands of Americans die unnecessarily. The danger is that once government has grabbed more power over our lives they won’t be in any hurry to give it back. As the coronavirus epidemic starts to fade away – and it will – we need to be alert for any sign that temporary restrictions aren’t becoming permanent.

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Anne
By Anne March 12, 2020 09:08
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109 Comments

  1. Mic March 12, 16:02

    We will not lose any freedoms because it is basically a hoax.
    The number of deaths from this virus are about the same as those found in an average weekend in Chicago!

    It is all about fear mongering and destroying the Trump economy.

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    • Velvetjade March 12, 17:23

      Please don’t ‘downplay’ this virus. It is NOT a hoax. It is real. People are getting sick and people are dying. It’s time to take responsibility to help prevent it from growing larger. Maybe you aren’t in an area where there are already communities that are feeling this effect but some are. You can do you by all means but please don’t t say this is a hoax. You are part of the problem if this is how you react. You do realize that a virus has NO political affiliation and doesn’t care who is sitting in the White House…don’t you? Be smart, not bullheaded.

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      • Big Moe March 12, 19:28

        Make no mistake. This was planned by the Chicoms. This virus is a bioweapon.

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      • TruthB Told March 12, 19:48

        People are sick and dying from to common flu (16,000 last year in the U.S. alone), but there is no panic over that. The death rate is 1% (the means 99% of those infected SURVIVE). The COVID 19 virus (this means there were 18 before this one) is more easily transmitted. You would think from the reaction , it is the replay of the 1918 epidemic (25% mortality rate). ACS will help a great deal in controlling the Covid 19 “pandemic” and the economic effect.

        *ACS Applied Common Sense

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        • Bek March 12, 22:10

          There were not 19 before this one. As quoted by the CDC…

          “On February 11, 2020 the World Health Organization announced an official name for the disease that is causing the 2019 novel coronavirus outbreak, first identified in Wuhan China. The new name of this disease is coronavirus disease 2019, abbreviated as COVID-19. In COVID-19, ‘CO’ stands for ‘corona,’ ‘VI’ for ‘virus,’ and ‘D’ for disease. Formerly, this disease was referred to as “2019 novel coronavirus” or “2019-nCoV”

          This is straight from the CDC website. As you can see, the 19 is for the year of the outbreak. Please don’t spread misinformation

          Reference: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

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        • Proteus March 12, 22:47

          “Common sense” is not very common anymore.

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        • Proteus March 13, 02:14

          CDC’s estimate of flu deaths is 20,000 – 52,000. We should all hide and yell “the sky is falling” over this hyper sensationalized, centuries old virus. How stupid can the sheeple be?

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        • Markth March 13, 14:07

          the -19 has to do with the year it was discovered which is 2019. shows just how uniformed u really are and there are at least 10 others just as clueless who thumbed up your comment.

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      • dp March 12, 20:40

        Velvetjade,

        About 8000 people world wide have died, and most of them were in their 80’s or had compromised immune systems to start with.

        Meanwhile, the regular old flu kills 10’s of thousands in this country alone every year… no one is calling the flu a “pandemic.”

        Mic is exactly right… it is a hoax, with extra fear mongering from the MSM, and the usual suspects.

        You haven’t noticed that we get some kind of fake “pandemic” every election year? Bird flu, swine flu, SARS, etc? It always turns out to be a big nothing burger, and corona virus is exactly the same thing.

        Maybe you should turn off your television and do some actual research?

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      • Lisa March 12, 22:24

        Its not a hoax, but its not as serious as they are leading on about. As for trumps economy, well ask the farmers who had to file bankruptcy because of his tariffs.

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        • Proteus March 13, 02:57

          “I see stupid people, they’re all around me; they just don’t know they’re stupid”

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        • dp March 16, 16:03

          Farmers around here are doing just fine. Of course they have TRUMP subsidies to carry them through, and they grow rice and soybeans that will ship to China with the new TRUMP trade deals.

          Maybe, farmers that chose the wrong crops for a few years are hurting, but that is not our fault, nor TRUMP’s fault… some farmers go bust every year.
          That is more a result of being poor businessmen than anything else.

          A farm is a business. You need to be able to choose the right crop and know how to run a business to succeed.

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          • dp March 16, 16:15

            They have actual college degrees in horticulture. That includes the business end of it. If it was so simple as throwing seeds at the ground and watching your money grow then everyone would be doing it.

            Just Sayin’

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          • Fred March 21, 04:50

            No farmer chooses the “wrong” crop! 95% of farmers who go bust are forced out by Corporate Agriculture! Large ag corporations like Con-Agra, Land O’ Lakes and Green Giant can buy up or rent farmland at higher prices than the small farmer can afford, get huge discounts on seed and fertilizer where small farmers just don’t have that kind of buying power, and generally use their own processing plants, shutting the small family farmer out of market options! Now, one of the biggies has even purchased a seed and fertilizer distributor, so their production costs will be even lower, while still charging regular prices to the small guy!

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      • Proteus March 13, 02:59

        Quick …. rush out to Walmart and buy tons of toilet paper … and hand sanitizer … and and and …. whatever else you can find that you should have bought ten years ago … do I make myself clear?

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        • dp March 14, 11:03

          The MSM puts up a list for the sheeple to buy. it is not their fault they just buy as much of what the television tells them to buy as they can afford…

          real story: I went to the store and all of the meat, toilet paper, bread, and water was gone… but the baby food and dog food was all there… go figure.

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          • JustMe March 27, 05:10

            I went into a Kroger grocery store this morning and the shelves were full of paper towels and toilet paper. And no one was walking around with carts full of paper goods. If you’re sitting
            On a mountain of Charmin or Bounty right now You should feel very sheepish.

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        • dp March 16, 16:23

          Meanwhile, baby food can be found in abundance… no shortages there.

          Priorities people…

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      • Proteus March 13, 03:31

        Koolaid is free for the asking

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      • Hedgehog March 13, 22:15

        If the press told you to drink a half cup of bleach every morning to stave off this killer virus, you would probably believe that lie and do it. We need people like you to set the benchmark by which rational humans can be measured.

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    • Proteus March 12, 19:55

      Absolutely agree. What scares me is how vulnerable and naive people are. I went to Walmart today to buy lime juice for my self imposed internal sanitization …vodka tonic. There was not one roll of TP on the shelves. So glad that I have 1200 rolls stored!

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    • Old Stumps March 13, 00:29

      The last time we had a virus like this under Obama and 24,000 people died That is one person per every 1500 square miles (which means squat) Was that a hoax?

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      • dp March 13, 03:24

        Meanwhile back at the CDC they estimate that between 3000 and 80,000 people in the USA alone have died every year between 1976 and 2018 of the flu, and complications from the flu… for example allowing it to progress into full blown pneumonia without seeking proper treatment.

        Again, I suggest that you do some diligent research rather than simply accepting the hype. You will also find that corona virus is a patented created illness.

        I did not mean to imply that because it is a hoax, that the usual suspects aren’t willing to kill people… this fits in with their UN Agenda 2030 depopulation plans quite nicely – it simply means that it is an artificially created emergency which will go away on it’s own as soon as warmer weather gets here and flu season ends.

        Meanwhile they get to pass 9 billion dollars in “emergency” pork barrel funding. Odd how the sanctuary states who have had the federal government tax teat removed from their mouth seems to have most of the COVID19 cases…

        Do diligent research and follow the money rather than following CNN… just sayin’

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    • Markth March 13, 14:05

      Mic get your head out of your ass will ya. This virus is VERY real and once it starts overloading the healthcare system…and there are no more ICU beds or ventilators you will see how much of a “hoax” it really is. It’s happened in China and in Europe. We are next have no doubt about it especially since we have such a huge problem testing and containing the virus. Plus a president who almost outright denied it.

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      • dp March 13, 16:03

        Amazing…

        I can never decide if you folks are professional trolls, if you are that ate up with Trump Derangement Syndrome, or if you are just that confused by the MSM spin and lies.

        COVID19 is already on the decline in China. The “death toll” has been revised down to less than 1% deaths vs. people that have it… most of whom were in their 80s – and Trump never called COVID19 a hoax, he said that the Dems were using it as a hoax to push their agenda.

        There is one thing that you are right about, Markth, someone here needs to pull their head out of their nether region and back into the light of reason for some fresh air and sunshine.

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      • Counterpoint March 13, 21:07

        Well, Markth …. you certainly need to stay home and cancel all your activities for the foreseeable future. Perhaps if you watch MSNBC long enough, you’ll be cured of your phobia!

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      • Counterpoint March 14, 03:49

        Yes Markth, life is tough and it’s tougher if you’re stupid. May I suggest that you just join the panicking sheeple and load up on toilet tissue and hand sanitizer?

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        • dp March 14, 10:51

          Almost 35,000 killed by car accident every year. that is over 100 people that die every day on this nations highways.

          Markth, I will take your car for free – you won’t need it anymore… you will be too busy hiding under your bed.

          It is a car killer pandemic…

          You are welcome.

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      • JustMe March 27, 05:18

        The only denying going on here is from you Markyboy. If the universe gets very lucky you will be nothing more than a part of the small percentage of losers who deserve to be taken out by CV 19. Someone needs to slap the whore you call mommy for unleashing such ignorance on society.

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    • Heidi March 20, 20:22

      We already have not gotten back the freedoms taken from us after the false narrative Sept. 11 attack. Never got them back, and never will get back all now imposed onto us. Wait and see. This cold virus pandemic will lead to losses of freedoms on multiple planes (medical, economic, privacy,…). Sorry to say, Mic I can’t agree with you. Although I wish you were spot-on.

      But, your’re right on the death numbers! Definitely right and there are data from the Italian National Health Institute and European Mortality monitor indicating exactly what you say.

      One Spanish hospital Doc tweeted that more people die probably of the panic now than even pneumonia or the virus. And due to people overloading the hospital as they all want to get tested, while the workers throw protective clothes where they and docs wash up. Total chaos he says. And I can imagine.

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    • PlainJane March 22, 23:11

      I think you’ve missed the point. The problem, as it has been expressed over and over, is that this virus causes a lot of people to become extremely ill requiring hospitalization. Being that it is so incredibly contagious, if everyone were to get sick at the same time, our medical facilities just are not able to handle the sheer volume of patients all at one time. And yes, I do agree that the media has done nothing to quell the panic. They ARE bent on destroying Trump. However we should take this threat very seriously. Many will die.

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      • Heidi March 31, 22:36

        Check out this site, it’s full with data: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
        They are talking about:
        Test reliability; how Mortality rates are established/counted; importance of preexisting conditions,…
        ….

        Civil liberties are already being lost. More will be lost. People who don’t inform themselves as best as they can will be co-responsible for more losses of our freedoms. They should not be surprised if they are forced to receive mandatory vaccinations whether they have or don’t have this particular infection. Roll up your sleeves. So be prepared for more surveillance. Senate already wrote bills for more online censorship, and more surveillance of your online activities, Democrats and Republicans are pushing into the same direction. Even a digital dollar is in the pipe lines of D and R – another way to lose our freedom.

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  2. left coast chuck March 12, 17:44

    If you put a frog in a pot of hot water he will leap right out. On the other hand if you put a frog in a pot of temperate water and slowly heat it, he won’t realize he is in danger until it is too late.

    That’s the parable about the loss of freedom. A little bit here for a reasonable cause. A little bit there for a reasonable cause. Finally when you wake up you are in a labor camp.

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    • chemman March 12, 21:43

      Not true. That is a fable just as the ostriches burying their heads in the sand is a fable. The frog will try to get out of the port.

      Reptiles are also ‘cold blooded” and go out into the sun to slowly warm up. If they had no way of determining when it was time to get out of the sun then there would be no more reptiles.

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      • Proteus March 12, 22:36

        Quit being so scientific and ruining the discussion.

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      • left coast chuck March 13, 00:18

        Well, perhaps not the frog, but the loss of liberty a little bite at a time (that is a little bite and not a little bit) and the end result is slavery. Notice how, since the civil war and especially WWI our liberties have been impinged upon little by little and we don’t object. After all, who can object to someone who is opposed to the War to End All Wars being silenced by a stay in prison for the duration? Who can object to controls on wages but not on profits? Who can object to a draft because there are not enough willing citizens who think our involvement in the war is important enough to volunteer? Who can object to time being manipulated to increase retail sales, especially if it is wartime and supposedly frees up workers to work in their Victory Gardens after work and during daylight hours?

        I am reading a book with specifics about how Lincoln consistently violated the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights during the War of Secession and because the North won, history makes him out a hero. Henry Ford (yes, that Henry Ford) “History is a fraud.”

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        • Dixie March 13, 02:52

          The War of Northern Aggression

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          • JustMe March 27, 05:40

            So You equate a war started by a group of traitors attacking a federal military post (Fort Sumter) to northern aggression? I would tell you to read a little history but you would need to know how to read so I won’t waste my time with that suggestion.

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            • dp March 27, 06:13

              Actually, Just Me you need to read some real history for a change and put down the koolaid.

              The civil war was no different from any other war that the international bankers created. The south was being extorted by Northerners because they grew the cotton. Northerners didn’t care about slavery…. they just wanted a monopoly on southern cotton. They wanted to processes it in their northern factories, and the south wanted to by pass their price rigging, and to sell directly to the highest bidder in Germany, France, Spain, and England.

              Hell, they were developing machines that could replace the Negro by that point. Slavery was on it’s way out.

              Succession was based on the states rights of self government and independence. The succession movement said that we were first with the articles of confederation, and that we joined this gang to build a nation, but if the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT wants to tell us what to do, then they can just kick rocks, and we will drop out… no harm no foul.

              The Northerners, being the banker controlled libtards of their day, went to war against the patriots of freedom.

              The bankers threw all kinds of money at Lincoln and the federalists, while denying funds to the international defenders of the south.

              They won the war.

              It was one of their first government take-overs. The winners wrote the history books, and you gobbled it up…. You fucking ignorant sheeple.

              Therefore, YES… It was the war of northern aggression. The south, being a legal party to creating the contract had every right to dissolve that contract when the north failed to meet it’s obligation. It was fully within it’s independent states rights to succeed, and to peacefully go it’s own way.

              Keep in mind that when our country was formed the states were sovereign countries in their own right.

              You see tha none of this is taught to you ignorant ass-clowns today…. You are like mushrooms that are kept in the dark and fed BS. That is why old folks call you retards.

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        • Proteus March 13, 03:02

          Old chemman is way out of touch … I’ll bet he or she sleeps with the lights on.

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        • JustMe March 27, 05:27

          Henry Ford. -“if you think that the government is your friend, just ask a Native American”.

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      • Miss Kitty March 13, 02:04

        Aesop and others didn’t REALLY know anthropomorphic talking animals either – it’s a METAPHOR!!! For being unaware and gullible and possibly a little too comfortable for your own good.

        Besides, how would you know this as fact if you didn’t try live-cooking a frog?

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      • left coast chuck March 13, 03:16

        It’s a parable. Parables are not always scientifically accurate, but it is useful in portraying the principle that we lose our rights and our liberty little by little in such small increments that we barely notice.

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        • Counterpoint March 13, 21:13

          They don’t understand … parables were used liberally in the Bible to explain various concepts to the simple minded. We might use more parables in America and on some of these comment sites … there seems to be an abundance of simpletons who panic readily when told to by the lame stream media.

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          • JustMe March 27, 05:31

            This article has the unstable whackos pouring out the hysterical nonsense for sure.

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            • dp March 27, 06:30

              You need to direct your arrogant rants by naming who you are calling out.

              you are making a lot of enemies here. each person makes valid points, which you just blow off… a typical ignorant socialist millennial that takes no blame and who expects everything for free. paid for by working people while you won’t be working or care about taxes for decades. You are just a selfish asshole that wants free shit today… later, when you look at paying 50% of your income to support freeloaders you will change your tune, and you will want low taxes.

              It is all about you for you. You are just a selfish asshole.

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  3. Eowyn March 12, 18:01

    Panic buying of toilet paper is not just in the UK. In the good ‘ole USA they are doing the same thing. The problem is it is a real pisser when you cannot get your regular brand of TP and all you want to do is replace to your stock the package you put out in the bathrooms.

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  4. Jabba March 12, 18:32

    TP is almost gone in the Us too. Reason: ITS MADE IN CHINA. Just like 80% of all other goods. People in the US just don’t seem to understand what 80% of ALL goods means.

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    • chemman March 12, 21:46

      Most of our TP is made in Canada. Panic buying is the major issue.

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    • Counterpoint March 14, 03:36

      Not so. Most medicine is, but not TP. Thanks for your thoughtful input though.

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      • Eric Von Dumb March 14, 17:18

        I worked 45 years for that retirement check. Do not put me in the same class with the welfare class! Just Sayin’

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      • Clergylady March 15, 19:58

        You should not lump retirement social security in with welfare. Most retirees won’t draw out what they paid in. Many pay in and don’t live to draw it and unless there are minor children nothing is paid out. It is a fund that was to be left alone but democrats have robbed it several times and hurt its long term viability. It isn’t money from the government. It is money taken from our paychecks over a lifetime of work. I paid in for 47 years. Not sorry to have it now. It it weren’t robbed and mishandled it would still be working for future generation. Blame that on the Democraps…not retired folks.

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        • Govtgirl March 16, 12:08

          I agree 100%. I worked for the Social Security Administration for 38 years. We were always taught that it was an earned right. A worker’s contribution is matched by their rmployer’s into the trust fund. This earns interest, but as I understand it the interest is government securities. Also, I think Congress passed a law that they could spend the excess. They couldn’t stand to see that money just accrue. All efforts to change even a part of it to individual 401K’s were shot down. And I despise the word entitlements and lumping it in with needs-based programs. Social Security is an earned right. It is part of an individual fulfilling their personal responsibility to support the self if they are able. And by the way, there should be a law that requires that every bill that Congress passes must have in the title TAXPAYER-FUNDED just to remind them whose money they’re throwing around. There is no “government” money.

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          • dp March 16, 15:28

            Govtgirl should change her handle to the American people’s girl… I’m liking your attitude.

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            • Govtgirl March 16, 22:01

              Thanks, dp. See, I can get a rant on too and I’m not too proud of some of them. It’s hard not to. I live up I-5 from Seattle so there’s nobody around here to say these things to except my husband who’s already heard it more than once. It’s good to be able to say these things here because I agree with you, the state of affairs is beyond frustrating.

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    • JustMe March 27, 05:46

      Have to disagree with that comment. I was in Kroger this morning and they had plenty of TP. Ever hear of Wisconsin? Lots of TP made there. Last time I looked the place was full of cheeseheads, not Chinese. However we do need to stop relying on China to keep the shelves full at Walmart.

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  5. Wannabe March 12, 18:36

    There is something known as emergency powers. Governors can legally put bans on things, restrict travel, put a cap on hoarding items just as they can put a price cap on selling items to protect the consumer from being robbed through price gouging. This is all normal and right and must be lifted after emergency has passed that is why they are called emergency powers and not permanent powers. So it is okay and legal and wise I might add to keep this from spreading. That is probably why Italy is in the fix they are in right now. Too late and too little action is devastating. Everybody stay calm, live life, be cautious and take this opportunity to make it a teachable moment to friends and family the necessity and wisdom of prepping.

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  6. Boyd March 12, 18:45

    Do a search on [ yellow fever 1793 Philadelphia ]. That actually led to the first Constitutional crisis…Congress abandoned Philadelphia before adjourning. And they stayed gone for three weeks. In order to meet somewhere else they had to meet back at Philadelphia to “adjourn to another place”. Heck of a conundrum.

    Lots more pertinent stuff came out that epidemic: Dr. Benjamin Rush being condemned by his colleagues, the hard cold facts of enforcing a quarantine on a city, Black nurses being falsely accused of profiteering…and more.

    I recommend this book, “An American Plague: The True and Terrifying Story of the Yellow Fever Epidemic of 1793 “

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    • left coast chuck March 13, 03:14

      The reason congress recesses for the summer is because summertime in the District of Corruption was always a time for yellow fever and malaria. It also was hot and muggy but the most compelling reasons were the two scourges of mankind.

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    • Counterpoint March 22, 23:57

      Just read that book …. damn, makes the evil corvid19 look like a school picnic. Philly was almost wiped out.

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    • PlainJane March 27, 08:18

      Our neighborhood is built on the site of an old farm. There is a family cemetery here with three graves. The graves are one child, one young adult, and an elderly person. All died around 1790-1793. The neighborhood kid’s research showed that they were victims of the yellow fever epidemic. Fascinating stuff! We made a park out of it.

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  7. TheSouthernNationalist March 12, 18:50

    I can understand the need to limit exposure to this virus at the expense of my rights for a little while.
    But only for a little while.

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    • Prepper In Training March 12, 19:44

      I will agree with you if it is only for SOME rights, but not all rights. I will give up my right to travel, as long as I still have my right to communicate (whether by phone or computer).. I will give up my right to peaceful assembly, but I won’t give up my right to go to church (if the church chooses to close, that is another story)..

      I will not give up my right to protect my family. That means I will keep my guns, the food that I have saved to get us through lock down time, and my right to be secure in my own home.

      We have “rights” that the government THINKS they can take away, but what people are doing is displaying common sense. It makes sense to not insert yourself into dangerous situations, in this case coronavirus. Maintaining above average hygiene is also a common sense action. The government would benefit by using better talking points when trying to convince people to “give up their rights” for awhile.

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    • Proteus March 12, 19:57

      Absolutely agree. What scares me is how vulnerable and naive people are. I went to Walmart today to buy lime juice for my self imposed internal sanitization …vodka tonic. There was not one roll of TP on the shelves. So glad that I have 1200 rolls stored!

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      • Miss Kitty March 13, 02:10

        Maybe the quinine (and the alcohol) will help. At any rate, drink enough and you won’t care!

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      • dp March 13, 04:24

        That lime juice cr@p with rot your gut… I much prefer my medicinal hot Earl Grey tea with a dab of apple cider vinegar, and plenty of raw honey… don’t skimp on the vodka – that’s where all of the “sanitizing” comes into play!

        =)

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  8. TruthB Told March 12, 19:55

    “They who can give up an essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    Benjamin Franklin

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    • Claude Davis March 13, 19:02

      Franklin was a great man, but he died in 1790. Louis Pasteur discovered that diseases were caused by microorganisms in 1860. I don’t think someone as smart as Franklin would have approved of letting potential disease carriers travel round the country infecting people.

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    • DrewMeister March 27, 14:32

      I’m certain that Ben would not consider a biological attack capable of taking your family’s life, “a little temporary safety”.

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      • dp March 27, 16:06

        DrewMeister,

        You don’t seem to understand the concept of the quote. Let’s put it into a modern frame of reference…

        On 9/11 several thousand Americans died in the twin towers false flag event. Because of the knee jerk over-reaction of people clamoring for the gubbermint to “do something” to protect us we got endless wars in the middle east, the TSA at our airports, and the patriot act…

        Any time that people are willing to give up their freedoms for a bit of perceived safety it is always a bad trade.

        The cure is always worse than the disease.

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  9. Lisa March 12, 22:22

    How many deaths in America, 32, how many infected about 1000. This is not an epidemic.
    Remember the aides scare, over 100,000 died, but did everyone wear condoms, no. But idiots are buying toilet paper. For what, afraid it will enter your ass?
    This is not a scare.

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    • Proteus March 13, 03:11

      You are so right .. and remember, Its pointless arguing wit someone who can’t realize what they done to cause an argument its like talking to a vegetable.

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  10. Clergylady March 12, 23:06

    I can live with temporary restrictions but if they were permenant I guess I’d be rebellious.

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    • Claude Davis March 13, 19:04

      That’s exactly what we need to be on the alert for. If some temporary restrictions help keep an infectious disease away from me and my family, I’m willing to accept that. What Anne points out in the article is that once politicians have grabbed a power they like to hang on to it, so it’s down to us to keep a close eye on them and make sure that doesn’t happen this time round. It’s extra important because this is an election year, and the campaigns are already being disrupted. We can’t let rules be abused to give some candidates an advantage.

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  11. left coast chuck March 13, 00:26

    I wish someone would point out just where in the Constitution of the United States it enumerates all those powers that the president has seized for himself. Wherein does it state that if there is an epidemic (which is no more serious than the typical yearly flu epidemic) that the prez can order folks not to travel; can order basically, airport shut down? I realize I am not a world famous expert on the Constitution, but I would like someone to cite the paragraph and section to me because I seem to be unable to find it.

    If the problem is truly serious, then the government should, by moral suasion, be able to convince people it is in their best interests not to do the things that the government feels are harmful to the interest of the country and its people.

    We have for example, gone from $2 billion to “fight” this epidemic to $8 billion, a bill loaded with pork and I don’t hear one outcry, I would dearly love to see how many bridges to nowhere are provided for in coronavirus bill. We are talking about some seriously big money here folks. I thought $2 billion was over the top. $8 billion when we don’t have a dime in the treasury, but merely a bunch of IOUs to everybody and his brother is truly atrocious.

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  12. Shea March 13, 01:42

    Never let a tragedy go to waste, even if you have to manufacture one, right? Fearful people are much more easily controlled, and I think that may be the primary goal of all the hype. I guess we’ll find out within a month or so, but we won’t learn from it b/c the government schools have forcefed ‘baloney’ to practically all Americans for 13 years of their formative years. Common sense is called out for being heretical.

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  13. Miss Kitty March 13, 02:14

    What I’m concerned about is the announcement this afternoon that the government is seizing private property. So far it seems confined to hotels and the like, but what will happen if some officious government officials decide to take it further?

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    • Miss Kitty March 13, 02:25

      PS: So far it’s just California. San Luis Obispo Tribune reported that Gov. Newcom overrode the current state mandate to authorize seizing hotels, etc. for use as quarantine areas.

      For a liberal state like CA that seems par for the course, but my concern is the potential for abuse, especially if other state governments decide it’s a good idea and the Federal government allows it to continue or decides to start seizures itself.

      Seems like CA gets to do whatever it wants to as far as trampling the rights of its citizens and nobody calls them on it…

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      • Matu March 13, 09:50

        I understand what you’re saying. But to be fair these hotels are hardly being seized by the government…they’re basically “begging” for ANY type of business at this point, even if it means acting as a quarantine facility. But I understand how this can potentially trend into that direction which you speak of, executive orders have been enacted to support such scenarios in a martial law situation. We’ll just have to watch and see how this all plays out, especially once fake epidemic blows over.

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      • Hedgehog March 13, 22:26

        Maybe the feds can nationalize/seize commiefornia and ultimately fix the place!

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        • Govtgirl March 15, 08:10

          Dp- I hardly know where to begin. I’m about as right wing as they come and not at all politically correct, but your posting was beyond offensive and did not add to the conversation. Surely there are other sites you can go to where there are people who would appreciate your views.

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        • Clergylady March 15, 09:15

          DP. I’m not a Mexican, haven’t given up my guns and don’t vote Democrat. But your moronic show of poor judgement, immoral thinking and moronic use of language are inexcusable.

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        • Clergylady March 15, 13:14

          DP you’ve been part of this discussion until now. Why subjet us to this outburst now. It’s unproductive being either prejudiced or vulger.

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        • Miss Kitty March 15, 14:20

          Friends shouldn’t let friends post drunk.

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        • Govtgirl March 15, 23:57

          dp- That’s a real stand up response. I think things started declining before the invasion. We need to clean house. Take care and keep your AR-14 (eye roll) handy.

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        • Clergylady March 16, 02:34

          You have my full agreement. With a 5 shot revolver loaded with 38 hollowpoints in a pocket.

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        • PlainJane March 22, 23:26

          I agree that CA. is a messed up state. But the no one, not the Feds or anyone else has the right to go in and tell them how to run their state. Two words: States Rights
          Nwo, what the Feds could do is withhold funding. And better yet the people of CA. could vote to clean up their own mess.

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  14. Clergylady March 15, 19:21

    I grew up in a mixed politics home. No fighting but in my early teens I learned my PA farm raised mother was Republican while my Kansas farm town, farm jobs, raised Father was a Democrat. Each was able to state why they chose that party. Dad liked that they seemed to care about the poor and gave them the help they needed. Mom just smiled and said yes it looks that way but somebody has to pay for it. Governments have nothing but what they get from the people.
    I eventually made my informed choice to register as a Republican when I turned 21 in 1968.
    In those days the dollar was still backed by gold and could be exchanged for precious metal. Now its only worth the faith you put in the paper. We’ve fought for some rights, given up some rights, and must stand firm on some rights like the 2nd admemenment or we will loose it in the name of security and safety. Some rights like movement and assembly can be suspended for compelling temporary situations but if government were to retain that control past the time of need there is a reason for the second amendment. It isn’t about hunting Bamby.
    I’m not politically correct. I’m an out spoken, opinionated old lady. I’ve been a pastor for 47 years. I was a High school freshman the year they legally took prayer out of school. I didn’t understand how they could claim the right to do that. Guess I still don’t. I was a young adult when they passed Roe vs. wade. I could understand some of the reasoning but didn’t agree with it. So I’m still not politically correct. I wasn’t ready to see a presidential candidate kissing his husband. Less ready to see that union in the white house. So I keep loosing more points of political correctness and find the laws that limit my free expression of thought to be offensive. I don’t want folks I disagree with tared and feathered or lynched. But I want to retain the right to disagree. And I Ultimatly don’t want to loose more rights in the name of civility or any other excuse.
    Forgoing assembly or travel in the temporary name of saving lives I can handle. Just DO NOT MAKE IT PERMENANT!
    It’s already insane enough that if I go to town my vehicle is photographed going and coming. When I walk down a sidewalk I’m photographed. Walk into a business I’m recorded and probably well known on some agencies facial recognition platform. My every movement could be traced to the phone in my pocket. We’ve lost too much already. It’s time to stop the hemorage of privacy and rights… But I can bend the iron will for a temporary time. Just give back the right when the crisis is passed.
    Yup. I don’t plan to be politically correct, ever. Not fomenting civil unrest either. I grew up able to speak my mind on any subject and I’ll go to my grave saying what I believe, and believing what I say. Putting a new law on the books doesn’t change a truth. So laws should be carefully weighed before enactment. I believe that. Some were opressive on purpose when enacted and they needed to go away. Our total loss of privacy quietly slipped away. That is a loss. We aren’t as free as we think we are. I remember life before…..
    Beware of which freedoms you give up temporarily. And make sure it’s just for a definable season or its gone.
    I live out of town. Live on a limited, low income. So I have an extra roll of TP and some food on hand. Am I disgusted with the panicked buying? You bet! I’ve been in town 3 times this past week trying to buy a gallon of milk for my husband with Alzheimer’s. He can’t understand the shelves in the dairy case are empty or there are no cartons of eggs and little fresh meat to be had…mostly just pork if that. I know there is president for confiscating or destroying food but I’m not ready to live with that. Try to take away my right to bare arms if I have them or not… I’m not ready to accept that one.
    I’m old enough to remember going to a country high school where a rifle in the back window of a pickup was normal and legal, but wearing a pair of pants on the school grounds could get a girl in trouble. I learned that one my freshman year when I changed clothes, after school, to go to a parade in town. Almost was suspended but the school rule book hadn’t been given out yet and I was a freshman. Ignorance got me off, once.
    I soon learned how to fight “unjust laws”. But I was out of high school before that was changed, but that’s when I became a social activist. I’ve spoken out against several laws I’ve not agreed with. I brushed pretty close to being a syndicated political opinion writer nearly two decades ago. Ok I’m verbose. I know it. We can be respectful while disagreeing or discuss without digressing too far.
    We’re here for a unified reason. Prepping. We’ve been encouraged and sometimes specifics discussed as to how or what to do. Sometimes what one is doing or planning is mentioned. Things we don’t like or agree with get aired. Ok, that’s free expression…
    In horrified with the recent Red Flag laws but I do understand the rational idea behind it. I listen to the rationale for sanctuary cities but absolutly disagree. In fact I see it as an act of secession from the Union. Loss of federal funding is a gentle reminder you’re a part of a whole or no part of it. If you don’t like the law work to change it. Like it or not…if laws are voted on by the majority we live with them. If they are passed by the rulers we set over us in a Republic we need to think carefully about who we give that authority to, and how long they stay in that office lest they become corrupt and begin to enact laws no one wants as they enrich and empower themselves. Either we retain some controls or loose all control. Giving others power to govern us isn’t bad as a nation must have laws and enforcers. But being too lazy to put a stop to political dynasties is our fault. Serving the people, at the will of the people… Where do we put a stop to tyranny or self serving? At the ballot box.
    Sorry everyone for the gut reaction. I try not to attack individuals. Occasionally I do digress and fall into attack mode.
    What’s funny is not the prejudice of the piece that set me off but the fact it falls somewhat on the side of the immigration issue that I believe is right for America. I believe in legal immigration. I have a daughter -in-law in the Philappines who loves America. She Is now just past 30. She Passed a deep background check. She Is the mother of a daughter who is a foreign born American Citizen. And she has held a passport and traveled to Japan mostly and some other countries in past years. Daughter has her recognised citizenship and has a passport. The last obstacle was son coming home to reprove his residency in America because he’s been there for two years raising his daughter while his wife worked and been getting all the requirements for them fulfilled. He was to come home this month, regiser and insure his vehicle, get his state real ID drivers license, open a bank account here.. . things to prove his residency. Then fly back and hopefully that would be accepted by our state department and the three of them fly back here. It’s been slow and expensive. Every form costs hundreds of dollars to file. He cashed in his round trip ticket for fear of being stuck here away from them. She’s learned pretty good American English. She reads and writes with understanding. We often communicate.
    Panic buying with customers in long lines outside of stores is not just an American phenonomen. The Virus is growing there and fear is spreading with it. The foreign travel bans justify my sons fear of being stuck here separated from his family. He’d wanted to come home, quickly fulfill things on the list to prove his residency here then go back and finish saving up again for their travel expenses. His trip home and required proofs would have all cost money out of what he’d saved for airfare for them. They are working hard to do it right. It is a hard process. And she will have to have her green card and productive work here in order to stay. Illegals seem to have it much easier. Still she wants to come and be a productive part of our society. Now they will have to start the process over again with the background check and health certificate et because certificates are only good for a certain period of time. Coming here means leaving everything behind. They will each come with the contents of one suitcase and a carryon bag.

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    • JustMe. March 27, 06:02

      If you want to write a dissertation go for a PhD. I doubt that anyone is going to read your rambling expose. I read enough of your blather to understand this: you really don’t understand that politicians, their parties and the losers who vote for politicians are public enemy number one. Birds of prey have two wings. A left and a right. Wise up and when post get to the point or shut the F up.

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  15. Miss Kitty March 16, 03:20

    Let’s all just take a step back and assess the situation…
    Ok, we have a contagion in our country. I think we can agree on that.
    I think we here are mostly in fairly decent shape as far as preps go…sure, we all have some gaps, or at least additional stuff we WISH we had picked up when we had the chance. That’s just being human.

    Nobody can plan and prepare for EVERY eventuality. But, realistically, was covid even on the radar much before January at the earliest? And it went from a localized outbreak in China to a global pandemic in less than two months.
    That’s incredibly fast, so we can be at least a little pleased that our community here, at any rate, is somewhat better off than the average American. That takes a little pressure off of what will be a quickly overtaxed infrastructure.

    What we must do further to minimize the risks both to our selves and our families, and to the public at large, is to use an abundance of caution in all of our dealings “outside”. Use masks if we have them, gloves, hand sanitizer, etc. If we don’t, we will stick out in a group of people who are all in panic mode about the communication of the virus.

    In addition to keeping you healthier, masks also hide your face, so if you worry about being photographed buying another pack of TP, or you see your nosy, needy neighbor who blabs everybody’s business that could be an advantage. It’s an ill wind that blows no good.

    Being seen as just another sheeple is being “gray”, so use that. Wear anonymous clothing, no distinctive accessories, so it’ll be harder for people to identify you.

    Practice op-sec now like never before, and keep a low profile. People are starting to get really unhinged, maybe psychiatric medications are already in short supply, maybe it’s just the strangeness of this type of crisis. People who don’t remember 9/11, or who didn’t go through Katrina , Andrew, or any number of other natural disasters don’t know what to expect. But most of these were also localized and once the storm, earthquake, whatever ended the clean up could begin. People in other parts of the country were living normally.

    This is different. For young people who are used to having a “global” mindset, these circumstances are extremely disorienting. More people now than ever before have been diagnosed with psychiatric issues requiring medication. Withdrawal from these meds can cause more issues than the original ailment in many cases.

    Add in the fact that many people are forced to stay home, or at least out of work. I don’t know about your neck of the woods, but around here, that means a lot of stressed out, bored people who are going to be doing a LOT of drinking and drugging.

    Again, the best course of action is to maintain a low profile and act as helpless as everyone else, IMHO.

    Sorry for the extra long post 🙂

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  16. Govtgirl March 16, 16:38

    Aww, dp There you go again. A good rule of thumb is to try not to do, say or post anything you have to apologize for, especially in advance, Man.

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  17. Govtgirl March 17, 03:42

    dp- I think a lot of what you said was right. The response to this is way over the top, but saying stuff like they’re dying anyway is a tad callous.

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    • dp March 17, 07:06

      Govtgirl,

      You may be right about that. Some people are offended by the raw truth, and prefer to have it sugar coated a bit.

      Having been on the front line of elder care for many years I may seem a bit callous about my choice of terms, however what offends me more is callousness of action – especially while sugar coating your intentions.

      There are many who can put a pretty face on it while they abandon their parents to a nursing home. My mom had a major stroke about 6 years ago, and every time she would end up back in the hospital I would get the sit down with doctor Kevorkian, as I called her, who would try to convince me to abandon my mother and allow them to starve her to death… they always put a pretty face on it.

      I had to shut down my business, and take care of her full time after the doctors crippled her, and almost killed her with MRSA in their filthy hospital. I’ve had to treat bed sores that she came home from the hospital with for months to get them healed.

      Maybe my experiences with the health care INDUSTRY has left me a bit callous in discussing the realities of elder care.

      I am not saying that all nurses or doctors don’t truly care for their patients, far from it. My sister and many friends are nurses… it does however tend to make you quite clinical in describing these conditions.

      People in nursing homes are at particular risk for things like the COVID19 virus, and people on hospice they don’t even try to save if they catch something like that… been there done that with my mom when they convinced me to put her on hospice for awhile.

      I could get a home deliver of morphine in 1/2 an hour with a phone call, but getting antibiotics for the flu was out of the question… they see that as “natural causes.”

      I had to put her back on regular care to get any kind of proactive treatment.

      I don’t know how people want that sugar coated, but that is the actual reality.

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      • Clergylady March 17, 15:24

        Thanks you DP for being string enough to do right by your Mom. I also took care of my mother to the end. Then my husband also. The system pushes hospice and DNR forms. In some form or another every hospital and most Drs push that no choice left form in your face. What a legacy that is.

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  18. Govtgirl March 17, 08:35

    Wow, dp. I misjudged you as a young guy without the life experience to understand how callous language might offend some of us who are getting kind of long in the tooth when it was the exact opposite. I guess we are in agreement that it should not be that way. I am a very practical person, but believe that care even for the very aged and infirmed ideally be based on the individual’s wishes. I’m sure what you say is true. My husband had serious surgery recently ands they gave him one of those directive forms to fill out which was worded in such a way that about the only choices it gave was if blank happens, pull the plug when that is not how he feels. We threw it in the trash. The Obama Administration made it a requirement that Medicare physicals include filling out those directives, many of which are written that way. A government in charge of all medical care is one of the biggest dangers to freedom of that most basic decision. Sorry you’ve had to go through that.

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  19. dp March 27, 07:09

    GovtGirl -if you didn’t say that you were happily married and long in the tooth I would think that you were a spring chicken ripe for the pickin’ too…. You have a lucky husband… they broke your mold long ago.

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