5 Best Guns to Have Against Looting Rioters

Rich M.
By Rich M. June 22, 2020 06:58

5 Best Guns to Have Against Looting Rioters

One of the scariest things that we can have happen to us, as a society, is a breakdown in social order. More than anything, that means a breakdown in law and order; essentially a time of anarchy, even if there is still a government in place.

The rioting following George Floyd’s death has put a number of municipalities, or parts of municipalities, in just this place. Police departments are being held back from doing their jobs to avoid confrontation, leaving the streets to those who are inciting the riots and destroying their cities.

Before I go any further, let me say that it has become increasingly clear that those who are initiating those riots are not the peaceful demonstrators, who are exercising their First Amendment rights. Rather, a number of mayors, governors and police chiefs have come forth, stating that they have clear evidence that the riots have been started by imported muscle, not by local demonstrators.

Nevertheless, these cities are in danger from the riots. There are those who are calling to move those riots out into the suburbs, because “that’s where the problem lives.” Whether they are calling for a racial civil war or not, it seems clear that those voices are pushing to further the violence, expanding it out into areas where their perceived “enemies” live and work.

At the same time, there have been a number of calls to “defund the police;” to the point where protesters in Washington, DC painted that on the street in front of the White House. It would be interesting to follow the money trail on that and see who is behind that movement, but that’s not my purpose here. My purpose is that you and I are ready to defend ourselves, our homes and our families, if those riots move into our neighborhoods.

Related: Scare Them Off Or Shoot Them Dead?

Let’s Think it Through

Before discussing specific firearms that you might want to have on hand to deal with rioters, let’s talk a minute about the defensive strategy that we need to have in place, even if that is just in our own minds.

We must remember that people in that mob are essentially invisible to the law, in that it is hard to identify them and get a conviction; but you are someone they can identify, putting you at risk. On top of that, your actions will be held under public scrutiny, which is a much harsher judge than the law.

For our purposes, the best defense is one in which you never have to fire a shot. We must remember that the law only allows us to use deadly force in self-defense. That means that the courts have to agree, after the fact, that what we did was reasonable and necessary. If you shoot in today’s political and social atmosphere, you have to realize that you might be convicted, just to appease the mob, even if it was in self-defense.

With that in mind, one thing you want to do is to intimidate the mob, if you can, rather than shooting them. We’ve seen that happen recently, as store owners have stood guard at their places of business, well armed and ready to defend their livelihood. In most cases, the riots have passed those places by, and gone on to ravage other places of business.

If you are forced to fire a shot in order to defend home and family, you’re better off if you are able to merely wound the attackers, rather than killing them. This is a risky strategy, as a wounded assailant could still cause you great harm. But on the hand, it lessens the chances of ending up in jail.

You also want to consider ballistic body armor and even a helmet, to go with whatever gun you use. The mob can kill and often does. Even if they are unarmed, there is always the possibility of them beating someone to death. That ballistic armor can even be a help against that, spreading the force of blows and lessening the chance of them causing harm.

OK, Let’s Look at Some Specific Guns

Whenever it comes to “best” guns, everyone has their own opinion. That’s a given. What I’m after here is more to get you thinking about particular types of guns, rather than specific models. While all of the guns I’m going to mention are excellent firearms, I’m presenting them more as categories, rather than specific makes and models, even though I’m listing the makes and models too. I’m also going to talk a little about specific ammo loads, in cases where I feel it is applicable.

Kel-Tek KSG

5 Best Guns to Have Against Looting Rioters If there was ever a gun that was designed for close-range firepower, I’d have to say it is the Kel-Tek KSG.

While there are other excellent shotguns on the market, which follow the design of the KSG, this is the original. It is a bullpup shotgun, with dual switchable magazines, giving it a total capacity of 14 + 1 rounds. Seven round of each of two types of rounds, plus whatever is carried in the chamber.

A typical load for the KSG would be 00 buckshot in one magazine and slugs in the other.  That’s great for CQB, especially where breaching is necessary. But breaching is unlikely to be necessary in this case. Rather, you need the ability to defend yourself, perhaps without even killing anyone.

I would load that second barrel with a less-lethal round, like beanbags, rather than slugs. I’d also put something a bit smaller to replace 00 buckshot, such as #4 buckshot. That provides the option of starting out with something that can drive the crowd off, and then escalate firepower if needed. Even escalated, #4 buckshot is less deadly than 00 buckshot.

Mossberg 590M Shockwave

5 Best Guns to Have Against Looting RiotersWhile the KSG is a great shotgun, it is a bit pricey. For those that can’t afford that, some other sort of a tactical shotgun would be great to have; something like the Mossberg 590M.

Mossberg has long been recognized as the standard for tactical shotguns. The 590M is a removable magazine-fed version of the very popular shockwave shotgun.

This removable magazine overcomes one of the biggest limitations for most shotguns, reload time. Rather than being forced to take the time to hand feed rounds into the loading chute to fill the internal magazine, you can slap a new magazine and keep going, just as you can with an AR-15 or semi-automatic pistol.

One modification I would make, to either this or the KSG, is to add a red dot sight. Most people consider shotguns to be a “point and shoot” weapon; but at the range you’ll probably be shooting, it would be good to have the ability to aim, allowing you to pick your target. You’re not going to have much shot spread and you want to make sure you can hit the right trouble maker.

Related: Top 6 Popular Types of Guns Not Suitable for SHTF

Glock 21

5 Best Guns to Have Against Looting Rioters After considerably ballistic testing, I’ve come to some definite conclusions about what pistol calibers are the best for certain circumstances. For most people, this argument comes down to 9mm vs. .45 ACP. Personally, I’m a fan of both, even though I see them as being useful for different things.

The .45 ACP round was originally developed for the US Army, who was having trouble with Moro tribesmen attacking them high on drugs. They needed a round that would have high energy transfer, increasing the chances of knocking down these tribesmen, even if they didn’t feel the hit. The .45 ACP gave them that and there really hasn’t been another round developed which matches this ability.

If we assume that any rioters will be high on at least adrenaline, if not more serious drugs, then we need this knockdown ability. The Glock 21 holds 10 rounds, three more than the 1911, which is why I’ve selected it. Glocks are also highly customizable, with lots of after-market parts available.

Related: How to Practice Good Marksmanship Without Wasting Ammo

Springfield XDS

5 Best Guns to Have Against Looting Rioters Such a time, when there is a chance of riots, coupled with reduced police protection, gives justification for concealed carry, if any were needed. There is always the possibility of being caught by that mob, away from home.

While I personally wouldn’t want to take on a mob with nothing more than a pistol, I’d much rather take them on with a pistol than with my bare hands.

My favorite concealed carry gun is the Springfield XDS, chambered in .45 caliber. I’ve carried other guns in the past and then settled on the XDS. Not only does it give me the knockdown power of the .45, but it does so in an easy to shoot, very reliable handgun, that’s fairly small for a .45. Mine is modified to have both tritium night sights and a laser sight, allowing me to use it any time anywhere.

The problem with this gun, as with any concealed carry gun, is magazine capacity. That’s especially true for a .45 caliber. Those fat bullets take up a lot of room, which translates to a small magazine capacity. I compensate for this by carrying two 7-round magazines, in addition to the 5 round magazine that’s in the pistol. Twenty rounds still isn’t enough to take on a mob, but hopefully it’s enough to scare them away, if nothing else.


5 Best Guns to Have Against Looting Rioters No matter what else you have, you should have an AR-15 as your backup gun. While I would not want to start shooting with that, due to the lethality of a rifle slug, I would want to have it leaning against the wall, loaded and ready, in case I needed a lot of firepower quickly. There are few civilian guns on the market, which can match the firepower that an AR-15 can offer us.

As for what particular AR-15 you should buy, I won’t even attempt to pick one. There are so many on the market, that it’s hard to pick out just one. Besides, my personal AR-15 is one that I’ve built myself, picking out the parts that I wanted. So I can’t tell you a brand.

More than anything, I’d say your optics are important. I’d be sure to have a red dot sight, as well as a powerful tactical light mounted on the rifle. That should take care of most circumstances. While infrared or night vision devices might be nice, you’ll lose important details in the image, so I’d probably avoid them.

You may also like:

5 Best Guns to Have Against Looting Rioters The Lost Art of Cut Shells

This Homemade Device Can Power Up Your Entire House 7 Days in a Row (Video)

Improvised Suppressors When SHTF: Keeping Quiet When It Counts

How To Hide From Thermal Vision

When Did Independence Become Illegal?

Rich M.
By Rich M. June 22, 2020 06:58
Write a comment


  1. a r 15 June 22, 11:07

    where i live guns are hard to get. in area’s with strict laws i’d recommend a good double barrel shotgun with buckshot in one chamber and beanbag in the other. also train your self to reload that gun quickly.

    Reply to this comment
    • Justme June 22, 19:16

      I live in the suburbs of one of the larger cities that experienced rioting, looting and destruction of property. All of these activities occurred in urban areas where the residents are primarily Democrat. These areas are governed by Democrats and have been under Democrat control since the mid 1960s. I witnessed Democrats destroy their own parts of town.

      My suburb is primarily comprised of conservatives however Democrats have a significant minority presence. A few high school and college kids massed at busy intersections, They held up signs and chanted support for people they do not know for reasons that they do not understand.
      Guns are easy to purchase in my part of town and although I have no data to support this I assume that the mass majority of us own guns. I noticed that the riots occurred in areas of town where guns are easily accessed by thugs and not by everyday citizens.

      I have no political affiliation because it is my belief that political parties, their candidates and people who support them are the top three problems that face this country. They divide us, pit us against each other and combined with the onslaught of attacks against us by foreign marxists will be the reason this country fails
      Black lives matters is a farce, is intellectually dishonest and is at its core racist. It is a Marxist vehicle designed to divide us by race create chaos and sow the seeds of disorder that will change this country from one being based on the rule of law to anarchy. Foreign forces are not powerful enough to conquer us but we are weak enough to be taken easily from within.

      Covid 19 was a shot across our bow from the Chinese. They are feeling us out, taking gauge of our ability to react to a crisis and planning for the next attack, most likely cyber warfare, an electromagnetic pulse or a combination of both. I think they tested Covid to see how well it can incapacitate our society and now they know what it can do. After they knock out our cyber infrastructure they will eliminate us by spreading another round of Covid or another bug cooked up in a lab. This time there will
      Be no knowledge of the disease because there will be no sources of information and no way to communicate the threat.

      Masses of people in this country view the police force as their primary threat without considering China at all. Masses view relations between blacks and whites as the number one problem to resolve without even considering China. China is pulling the strings while masses dance along to the free driers tune. And masses will pay the ultimate price the day China comes a knocking on our door.

      Reply to this comment
      • Consco June 22, 22:49

        Wife and I agree with you 100%

        Reply to this comment
        • Luvy & Me June 24, 22:02

          The greatest value of any legally owned weapon is as a deterrent. My wife and I have agreed we would never take a life for a property crime, but if it comes down to her life or a life of one of our neighbors any available means will be used to stop the threat. On the subject of China and politicians, we have to take responsibility for this as we elect those who are supposed to represent us. When there is bad decision making from The Federal, State, or local levels, just vote them out! Politicians are like any one else including rioters and looters, if they are not held accountable for their decisions they will continue to do the same things they have always been doing because they think that is what we want and support. Don’t riot or demonstrate, VOTE!

          Reply to this comment
          • IvyMike June 25, 00:27

            Don’t buy into the American propaganda about China, the Big Bosses just want to give you someone to hate so they keep on cannibalizing our poor old USA.

            Reply to this comment
            • JustMe June 25, 16:42

              Ivey, if you had a brain you would be dangerous. If ignorance caused pain you would need to be on heroine 24/7. Take tour freedom and liberty hating trash to a leftist post, those of us who have brains on this site know you for the useless gutless spineless coward that you are little girl.

              Reply to this comment
            • JustMe July 12, 20:58

              You definitely have Ivey growing between the ears little Mikey. Anyone who doesn’t recognize China as an enemy of America is an effing idiotic moronic feces for brains loser.

              Reply to this comment
            • City Chick July 12, 23:41

              Would be a good idea if you got out more. Did a little reading to get caught up on world affairs and current events. Maybe even took a trip overseas to the Far East or maybe I to a big city to see what’s going on first hand. It would all widen your horizons and maybe even change your opinion.

              Reply to this comment
              • Justme July 17, 14:58

                It might help if you acquired a little wisdom and got out of the city for once in your life chick. I’ve been on every continent on the planet except Antarctica. Ive seen and done things that you will never even dream about. Judging people that you know nothing about is a true sign of diminished intelligence, chick.

                Reply to this comment
              • Kay December 7, 08:47

                If you want people to believe you or be on your side, don’t start by insulting their intelligence or culture or sophistication while looking down your nose at them (I say this only because your comment on July 12 came across as “oh I’ve been outside the US you ignorant hicks; you should go too. Fuh fuh fuh. Now excuse my while I smoke my big city weed and kiss the Dems feet.”)

                Reply to this comment
          • East Texas Richard July 2, 14:58

            if enough people in a district disagree with you the idiot in office will stay there, can you say Nancy Pelosi? just to name one. just voting is not enough. need to get out and educate other voters so they can cast an educated vote.

            Reply to this comment
          • City Chick July 17, 19:25

            My neighbors son, a nice young man, from a religious family, with a good education and a solid respectable career, is out there with so called friends joining into the demonstrations. She is so worried something will happen to him that she asked me to pray for him. I told her I would be happy too. I would pray that God gives him some common sense! Bet She thought I would pray for his safety!

            Reply to this comment
            • dp July 18, 10:27

              I may have got you wrong, city chick.

              Or maybe you changed your tune when you were called out by real patriots. You were forced to make a choice….

              I have never seen you but you started out supporting these communists… OK, not supporting but making excuses for them. now you flip-flop??????????????

              Now you are a total patriot??????

              LIAR. You are a TROLL.

              You will pretend to be a Patriot, and then you will flip again…. You flip-flop at will…. You are a trained agent provocateur.

              Reply to this comment
              • City Chick July 18, 14:43

                Yes Sir I think you did! That post was for our friend Maureen not you! Before our president became president, he was one of the few an outstanding patriots here in NYC. When no one could get it done,(talking Wolman Skating Rink here) he knocked it out of the park! What was a never ending government pork project was completed in no time! This is the same guy now sitting in the Whitehouse MAGA! NY born and raised in my hood, about 10 minutes from my house! There are still plenty good people here in NY. We don’t run. We don’t hide. We fight to the finish. Don’t understand how on earth you could ever suspect me of being anything other than RWB 🇺🇸

                Reply to this comment
              • City Chick July 18, 16:41

                Sorry, do, but I do have to chuckle a little at this post! I’m a Prepper just like you. This is a prepper site. Isn’t it? I don’t have time to fool around and I never flip flop! Have you forgotten where 45 came from? Have you been drinking?

                Reply to this comment
          • Jett December 7, 08:38

            Too bad it didn’t seem to make a difference. The Dems planned to steal this election from the start (which is why they weren’t worried when their candidates barely campaigned). Many pieces of evidence are coming forward, but because the media is in the establishment’s pocket (and has been since the ’70s/’80s imo) most people don’t hear about this evidence and what the MSM does cover, they spin to make it look like the witnesses are alcoholic drunks, crazy, or conspiracy-theorist nuts.

            I’ve been wondering this ever since Nov. 3. If voting doesn’t work, what will? Civil war? I hope it doesn’t come to that but I see my country slipping into a dictator ship and I don’t know what to do to stop it & I don’t know if our police or military would stop it either (though I hope they would).

            Reply to this comment
          • Viking February 3, 10:20

            Respectfully, the premise of your “vote them out” rationale is based on elections, without electronic manipulation of the voting machines. Fair elections are history. If the socialist democrats succeeded in electronic election fraud, with no penalty, under a conservative, patriotic President’s watch, how much easier will it be under a socialist (i.e. communist) biden/harris regime, whom China controls?!

            Reply to this comment
      • Lazza July 17, 07:05

        I agree with everything you wrote Justme. I am SO grateful to be an Australian, especially now. Did you see out BLM protests? No rioting, no looting, no one arrested, no one beat up or killed or shot or stabbed. Tough gun laws here (no automatic weapons for civilians) means zero school massacres and a helluva lot less gun murders. Do not want to get into a gun debate but based on a law passed during the American Revolution and the hundreds of shooting massacres in the USA it may be time for a rethink!
        America is in my thoughts for the crap it is going through now with the lack of leadership there and the obvious divisiveness. So sad and so dangerous.

        Reply to this comment
        • Justme July 17, 15:20

          Lazza if I had to live anywhere on the planet except the US it would be Australia, if they would let me in the country. I spent some time on your west coat in Geraldton, Bunbury and Perth. Incredibly nice place you have there. Full of really good, industrious people. Really enjoyed the Emu and Swan Lager beer.

          The right to own guns allows us to maintain our other god given rights: Speech, a free press, religious freedom, right to assemble, ability to vote, own property, etc. without guns we would have none of these rights. Take a look at history and notice that all dictators have confiscated guns as one of their first moves. They know that an armed public will fight back. Gun ownership in America insures our liberty and freedom. Too many people make the mistake of thinking that liberty and freedom are free. They come with a high price, they are paid for in blood.

          The majority of the gun violence occurring in America comes from a small group of uncivilized people who don’t value life and seem to enjoy killing each other. Especially in urban areas. If this group of people didn’t exist gun violence in the states would be a non issue.

          Mass killings occur in every country on the planet, it’s not solely an American problem.

          Murder occurs frequently in countries that have banned guns. People are resourceful. If you want to kill someone, a gun is not the only alternative.

          America is the shining light for freedom in the world. When Americans lose their right to own guns America is no longer free. And when America is not free, neither is the rest of the world. Consider that the next time you want to promote the idea that Americans would be better off unarmed.

          Reply to this comment
        • Justme July 17, 15:39

          Lazza, Regarding your lack of leadership comment. The country has an excellent leader in President Trump. The fact that he is a great Leader is one of the reasons his opponents hate him. They are jealous of his accomplishments in life and would rather see the destruction of America than to give the man credit for his many accomplishments.
          The majority of our states are not run by marxists Democrats so the states also have excellent leaders. Our problem isn’t a lack of leadership. Our problem is twofold: densely populated urban areas are inhabited by a majority of Marxist Democrats and these people have run city governments for decades. These areas have low high school graduation rates, high crime rates and are rife with poverty thanks to Democrat lead governments. The other problem is the hatred of freedom and liberty on display 24/7/365 from a lying subversive media whose sole function is to brainwash hapless ignorant sheople who would rather fight for free things than fight for freedom.

          I’m interested in knowing why you think we have a leadership problem other than in our urban areas. Could you give some specific examples?

          Reply to this comment
        • Kay December 7, 08:52

          Thank you for looking down your nose at us. We appreciate it.

          Reply to this comment
        • Consco February 3, 19:02

          When you get into it with China you will all wish you had a firearm. Firearms do not cause crazy people. They are 2 separate topics. You all come from a parliamentary system that fears the people.
          Yes I have spent 14 months in OZ.

          Reply to this comment
      • City Chick July 17, 19:17

        Hey Justme! Good take on the current situation! I would add that over the years, our major cities have been legally and illegally infiltrated with people who do not hold our traditional values, have much different life experiences, and cling to a culture much foreign to our own. If you take a closer look at the statistics, you will find that these groups have been able to foster their own local political candidates into positions of power and influence. They are using that influence to change who we are as a people and to erase our culture and replace it with their own. I believe that they are being sponsored by outside influencers who hate America. We must stand. We must stand up for what we believe in! Dangerous times we live in.

        Reply to this comment
        • dp July 18, 10:12

          This is your first patriotic post… there might be hope for you. lol.

          Reply to this comment
          • City Chick July 18, 18:00

            dp, Thought this was a Prepper Site!

            Reply to this comment
            • dp July 19, 03:55

              Oh, it is. We just get a little carried away at times and start to see commies under every bush, especially when the looters start burning down the city and the supposed politicians that we elect are aiding and abetting them. lol

              No harm intended. Sometimes I find things funny that other people take seriously. Maybe a little too seriously, and vice versa.

              BTW my dad is a Brooklyn boy. 21 years in Army intelligence, Korea vet, multiple Vietnam tours… We know there are still good people in NYC, although I think a lot of them get tired of the BS and move to upstate NY.

              Reply to this comment
              • City Chick July 20, 17:11

                No problem dp! As a.City Chick I would be a little suspicious of anyone from NYC these days too! When all you folks left, they filled it up the empty space with the 3rd world! My area in Queens still half way decent, but We’er all hanging in here by the skin or our teeth! Praying for our Country, our President and giving thanks to God for Four More Blessed Years come this November Election! There is the Islamic Branch of the Democratic Party here in NY. Not kidding either. They put flyers in my mailbox.

                Reply to this comment
        • Viking February 3, 10:42

          On target City Chick! I suggest all Patriots research the Mexican Reconquista movement in their favorite online browser. One will find a well coordinated Mexican effort to re-claim the entire southwestern United States, viz:
          “The Reconquista (“reconquest”) is a term that is used (not exclusively) to describe the vision by different individuals, groups, and/or nations that the Southwestern United States should be politically or culturally reconquered by Mexico.”
          The illegal alien flood gates will be wide open under biden. Learn Spanish or keep your powder dry!

          Reply to this comment
      • Kay December 7, 08:40

        This doesn’t sound too far off of what a lot of us are thinking. But what can we do? The law seems to be working against us. And the masses don’t seem to believe us when we warn them about what’s going to happen (blow us off as conspiracy theorist or nutjobs…)

        Reply to this comment
      • Mtlartist February 3, 18:33

        Hi. My name is Justme(and my right hand and a dirty sock) I have no life so I troll every site that I can insulting anybody that doesnt agree with my opinion.

        Get a life

        Reply to this comment
  2. a r 15 June 22, 11:55

    for a good gun in areas where guns are restrikted, i recommend a double barrel shotgun

    Reply to this comment
    • ray June 22, 15:47

      So does Joe Biden !

      Reply to this comment
      • left coast chuck June 22, 17:09

        Yeah, but Two-Shot, Four-Hands Joe would fire off both barrels while the rioters are four blocks away.

        I can think of a nasty sexual comment to make, but I have control over my evil twin this morning, so will forego it.

        Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck June 22, 17:07

      Rather than a double barrel shotgun, consider a lever action rife in a pistol cartridge. A lever action rifle is low on the radar of gun grabbers. It is fast shooting — admittedly slower loading, but that can be improved with practice. A lever action rifle in .38 special carries a fair load of ammo, is fast shooting (if you are up to it) is more accurate than a handgun and for cosmetic purposes looks more intimidating than a handgun for the less dedicated rioter.

      For some quirk of ill-logical thinking, lever action rifles are not on any of the lists of gun grabbers. You can even own them in Neu Yawk City and in ‘Frisco by the bay.

      Reply to this comment
      • Consco June 22, 18:40

        Excellent suggestion LCC. We have several lever guns. for this very purpose. Highly recommend to all. Easy to shoot and ammo is fairly reasonable and can interchange with a handgun of the same caliber. One type of ammo to simplify things.
        No matter what you get, train with it. We will watch a movie and load snap caps into ours as fast as possible without looking. Wife seems to have better dexterity but she is 8 years younger!!!!

        Reply to this comment
      • City Chick June 23, 00:10

        Not so fast. You can’t own anything without first getting a permit that will take longer than molasses, pay Several hundred dollars if you can get it every year and registering everything you have with the local police. Once you do have something to protect yourself with, you
        can not easily get ammo or take it anyplace including a practice range of you can find one.

        Reply to this comment
        • DEFENDER June 23, 01:25

          1 Good Solution for you:

          Again before you buy “anything” – get trained “1st”.
          You will be glad and thank yourself later.

          Most people get it backwards and it costs them.

          Reply to this comment
        • left coast chuck June 23, 01:25

          You mean you can’t even buy a lever action, Sons of the Old West lever action rifle in Neu Yawk City without permission from your masters?

          Sorry, my mistake. I was under the impression that long guns except for nasty black rifles which everyone knows are weapons of mass destruction and mayhem, were except from obtaining permission from your masters before purchasing them.

          As I understand it, in order to avoid being reviewed by the Supremes, Neu Yawk City changed its ordinance regarding taking rifles to out-of-city ranges. Still didn’t cure most of the problems complained about however.

          You do belong to the New York gun owners association, don’t you? How about Gun Owners of America or (gasp) the NRA? If you don’t, perhaps you should reconsider your non-support of the only folks who are actually trying to do something about the conditions in your state.

          Don’t depend upon the legislators or whoever is in power in Neu Yawk City to wake up some morning and say to themselves, “Today is the day I do something good for gun owners.”

          That only happens in your dreams. In real life, It is the Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America, the NRA (when they have any money left over from buying Wayne’s bespoke suits, shirts, ties and shoes) and the New York gun owners association who are fronting the money to take the various political entities to court. If you are not supporting them, then you actually are part of the problem if you want to own a gun. Of course if you are depending upon your pepper spray (You can own that can’t you or do you need permission from your masters at city hall?) I would suggest that pepper spray sucks when you discharge it in your home. (Don’t bother asking me how I know that.)

          Reply to this comment
          • A R 15 June 23, 08:51

            lefty, here to get a lever gun you’d need a hunting permit from your region. they arn’t that hard to get. the problem is 38 special. it’s classed in category b, along with most hand gun cartridges and what the government defines as war cartridges like 223 remington. you’d need to find a lever action gun in a category c cartridge, and most of these cartridges are old hunting cartridges that whent out of use in the 1950s like 44 marlin. to get a double barrel shotgun you just need to be 18 and your good to go.

            Reply to this comment
          • City Chick June 23, 14:37

            All in here for the 2nd Amendment! Need folks to come back, register and help vote them out. Not run away. Never protested in my life, but went to state capital a few years ago in the rain, in the mud. Had a great time with like folks. All upright citizens, lots of flags, lots of families. All peaceful. Mostly upstaters.and just a handful of us city folks. And yes, I am a proud life member doing and I am
            doing all I can to make the change

            Reply to this comment
          • City Chick June 23, 17:16

            PS Even HENRY moved over to New Jersey.

            Reply to this comment
        • Consco June 23, 20:39

          Obviously if you love in one of the communistic states this is true CC. So far we are able to continue to keep that at bay.
          We vote 2A very seriously. We believe it is the freedom that makes all others possible.
          Hopefully we can all get enough people to wake up and vote!!!!

          Reply to this comment
        • Tomk June 25, 07:36

          I’d live in a cardboard box in the woods before I’d exist in a place like that. Sounds like New Jersey. I’d get out of a place like that if I had to crawl.

          Reply to this comment
        • Jager July 3, 11:22

          Why are you living in such a place? There are still states where freedom reins. Move

          Reply to this comment
        • Justme July 17, 15:25

          Chick, you need to get out of the city. It takes me less than an hour to get a concealed carry permit. It costs $30.00 for a 5 year license. 6 bucks a year and less than an hour of work shoots your little gripe to pieces, little girl. Try leaving your 1 room flat for the first time in your life. You f you have any brains at all you might acquire some wisdom

          Reply to this comment
          • City Chick July 17, 18:53

            Hey Justme! Although I appreciate your concern for my well being, I am OK. Please know that I actually live in a large private house, solid built with a double brick exterior, ample size garage with lots of trees in a large private green space! NYC has been our Family home for 5 generations! Retired now, but well travelled as my work brought me routinely across the US and to eleven countries around the world. Here I stand. I can manage quite well. Thank you. All the best, City Chick

            Reply to this comment
            • dp July 18, 10:06

              That’s all good for you. Not great but good.

              You still have liberal leanings that leave a bad taste in the mouth of true patriots. It seems that you were born with a silver spoon, while the rest of NYC conservatives have been under the gun of brain dead libtards for generations,,,, just held hostage where their vote didn’t count because of all of the single mamma welfare households that got to vote for their paycheck, while land owning patriots were outvoted. On taxes. On free stuff vs freedom. etc.

              City chick you just admitted that you live a charmed life.

              Most foks in NYC don’t live that way… My daddy is a proud Brooklyn Boy… He would strangle Ocassio Cortes. He is a Korea and Vietnam veteran He is a retired Army intelligence MSSG. He didn’t do all of that to live under the heel of a communist traitor like corteze.

              You don’t seem to care because it doesn’t touch your charmed life… The average conservative does care. They work and pay all of the taxes that give these freeloaders free housing, healthcare, food, and they still want more…

              I can’t feed my own family, but my 50% taxes feed and house illegal immigrants so that they can be bused around the country to vote DEMON-CRAP????

              It is not about race… We are waking up. It is about a communist takeover of our republic. We are fighting back. Go live your charmed life, and forget that we were ever countrymen.

              I seldom agree with JustMe, but I can’t fault him on his faith to our republic, or his faith to his oath… on that he has my full respect and support… I have his 6 100% on those issues, and you can just go kick rocks in your rose garden on your estate in NYC and play the fiddle while the city burns down around you….

              You are a sick puppy.

              You have a bunch of communists in NYC. JustMe called you out on it… That’s my man… a little cock strong and not very PC… I like that in my troops. 🙂

              Reply to this comment
              • City Chick July 18, 15:29

                Aren’t you glad they are all here in NY? That way you can just sit back, relax, and not have to deal with it!! WWII- My father was in the African Theater, my uncle in the Battle of The a Bulge, my other uncle flying over the Hump. Have two Aunts who were in the WACs, and three relatives who were Grumman Rosie Riveters. One of whom was my dear mother. My cousins were all in Korea and my husband in USAF. We step up in my family. We stay in the fight.

                Reply to this comment
        • Tomk July 17, 22:49

          Good lord! Unless somebody has you chained to the radiator, there is absolutely no excuse for staying in a place like that. I they had me chained to the radiator, I’d chew off my foot to get out of there.

          Reply to this comment
          • dp July 18, 10:32

            These are the same people that voted for their own slavery. free stuff VS freedom.

            Would you have them move to your state and vote for your slavery also?

            This is our concern….

            Reply to this comment
            • City Chick July 20, 18:32

              I only have one vote to cast and I use it every chance I get! My district was split about 10 years ago in a political bid to diminish the power of our conservative vote. So you’re all invited to move to NYC if you promise to register to vote! It’ll help out a lot! Quite a few flocal conservative minded olks are tempted to join the Democratic Party just to be able to vote in their primaries! Doing all we can here to get rid of the likes of AOC and a few more in this NY cast of characters! All unfortunately too many to mention! Just trying to be all inclusive here!

              Reply to this comment
      • ray June 23, 13:32

        The gun grabbers are going after ALL fire arms, the lever action may be low on the list but you can bet you a** it’s there.

        Reply to this comment
        • Consco June 23, 20:42

          I believe all guns will be there. After semi autos and hi cap mags, I believe we will be stripped of the 2A. SCOTUS refuses to take up a case. We need Trump for 4 more years to get rid of Ginsburg and Roberts. IF that happens we may have a chance. Until it happens, no chance

          Reply to this comment
          • ray June 23, 23:40

            I don’t see us getting rid of Roberts for a long time unless he’s impeached and that would take a long time I think. I don’t understand why when Republicans put someone on the Court, they change their stripes as soon as they get there. The Dems. don’t have that problem but we sure do. I’d just like to wipe that smirk off of his face, it’s just like the one RINO Ryan always had on his face.

            Reply to this comment
            • JustMe June 28, 22:53

              Agreed. Roberts is back stabbing trash but it’s not surprising. He’s a W appointee and the only Obama snd Carter were worse choices than W.

              Reply to this comment
            • City Chick July 18, 15:15

              Communist? Well now that’s nothing but utter Nonsense! I’m not even a Democrat! Never was. Never will be! Old school here. Education – all public schools. Put myself through university. Started at the bottom waiting tables and worked hard all my life to take care of my family. Working in big Business no problem because I Taught Sunday School for eight years! Earned every single penny. Never took a hand out or looked for something for nothing! Still enjoy mowing my own lawn and raising the flag!

              Reply to this comment
        • City Chick July 18, 21:32

          No! Move in and help vote them out! Why don’t you just come on over and give those of us here taking a stand a helping hand instead of a hard time! There’s been an invasion in our major cities and everyone’s left the front line! You talk pretty tough from a distance, let’s see you come and make a difference! You know, “fight over there instead of at home!”

          Reply to this comment
          • dp July 22, 11:59

            City Chick,

            While I am happy to admit when I am wrong, to apologize to you, and to applaud your tenacity, patriotism, and spunk… You couldn’t ever pay me enough to move to NYC. I can barely stand the small town in Arkansas where I live – and I will move to the hills just as soon as I can sell my house. lol

            I definitely have no interest in big city life — I love the freedom of country living too much. I love being able to step out of my back door and shoot some dinner. I love being able to park as many old broken down “project” cars, boats, etc, in my back yard as I want without “The City Corporation” issuing me fake tickets.

            Maybe you love the city life, and I will pass on giving you my honest opinion of NYC in particular, but your idiot neighbors out voted you AGAIN, and sent AOC to congress… need I say more??? LOL

            Good luck with your fight, and if you ever get sick of the NYC rat fight… Then YOU will be welcome in red states. We don’t want your idiot neighbors here to vote for the same kind of failed communist traitors that have turned your city into a hell hole.

            God Bless You, and good luck.. 🙂

            Reply to this comment
            • City Chick July 22, 14:30

              Dp, thank you very much for the good wishes! Please know that I too enjoy the country and country life. Any time I.can spend out there makes it even more precious because it is something I do not get to enjoy everyday! Here in many ways, I am a fish out of water, but I’m close enough to get my feet wet from time to time! Thank you also for the kind invitation to join you folks in the Red states. Been to just about all of them and always feel right at home! It would be hard to choose!

              Reply to this comment
    • Rayland July 2, 14:10

      Invest in an AR-10. Use lead spire point hunting rounds and you’ll disperse just about any mob.

      Reply to this comment
  3. Bandit 4517 June 22, 13:08

    An excellent source for self-defense firearms is Youtube; Just type in “Paul Harrell” and it will have a list of video’s to watch. He does penetration, accuracy, expansion tests and an unbiased appraisal of many firearms. I recommend him highly.

    Reply to this comment
  4. Spike June 22, 14:49

    For looters, I would recommend a Mini-gun mounted in a C-130 from your local military.

    Reply to this comment
  5. DEFENDER June 22, 14:50

    Whatever you choose – TRAIN with it.
    Get at least “some” Tactical Training.
    This is not rabbit hunting. You need to know how to
    move and shoot with your weapon.
    If shots or missiles are coming at you – you need to
    be able to run your gun w/o thinking about how to operate it. Learn how to shoot from “Cover”. Learn what “Cover” means. When the SHTF you will not be able to “Think”. How do I know ?

    Reply to this comment
    • DEFENDER June 23, 21:20

      I am not saying Yes or No to a Shotgun but -Some things to Consider about Shotguns for home defense : And shooting “Inside” a House.
      Shotguns :
      Limited capacity – for most and harder to re-load than magazine-fed guns
      Difficult to maneuver inside most homes
      “Very” powerful weapon – Especially 12 Gauge.
      Can be difficult for small-frame women to handle & shoot, Serious Recoil(exa – hand it to the wife while you handle kids ?) Wife –  home alone – Shooting Shotgun ?

      “00” Buck – “Each” 00 Buck shell is equal to 9 rds of 9mm(roughly same size) spreading-out thru your
      house !
      9mm & OO Buck can shoot thru “All” your walls

      “Rack the Slide” – To scare them off? NO, NO, NO
      Why not? It may be dope-heads coming in who cant even hear or care AND – Now you are “Down” 1 rd on a low capacity weapon. What if there are 3 of them high on drugs ?

      AR15 – “Might” be a better choice – But you need to be Trained with it. AR’s have a softer recoil and controllable BUT are Not simple to operate.
      They “are” Loud.

      And Pistols are Not “Easy” to shoot well in a “real-life” encounter, again – Training – “For Real” is a must.
      Just “Range” Bulls Eye shooting is NOT Enough.
      Not for a Real Fight.

      “Ears” and “Hearing” and 911 – If you shoot “inside” a house you will not be able to hear-anything or anyone for say 5min.

      Reply to this comment
      • Consco June 23, 23:28

        Suppressors. We love them!

        Reply to this comment
        • dp July 4, 08:28

          Ridiculous that we have to license a suppressor. In most countries you can just go buy them as any other accessory like a new scope. They are considered to be like buying a muffler for your car, and that you are just being courteous to everyone within earshot.

          Reply to this comment
      • Jack July 2, 22:43

        You have not a single clue about using a shotgun for self defense. I trained at FBI Tactical Entry. WE used Remington 12 gauge and H&K MP9s. I prefer the shotgun. They are not all that difficult to reload when you have actually used one for more than pheasants a couple times a year. An extended tube gets you as many as 12 rounds. Mine has a 21″ barrel and 10 rounds. With a folding stock or a simple pistol grip rear and it maneuvers easily in close quarters. Worried about you wife an recoil? 20 gauge is your answer, has a higher velocity than a 12 to make up a bit of the power. No one says you have to use OO Buck, #2 Steel shot is a great alternative. Worried about “spraying your entire house”? At 15 feet the shot is going to open up to around a foot in diameter. We trained at headshots on hostage takers. With a little practice you can take out half of one head and not touch the hostage. So unless you are pumping and spinning, you are not going to destroy your house. Make a mess, one hell of a mess, but not a lot of collateral damage. EVERY burglar knows the sound of a round being jacked into the chamber, and after they drop a deuce in their shorts, they run away. The mob may not, nor the crackhead. But if you can’t push a round in the magazine tube in under 5 seconds, you need practice! Just a note about that steel shot, it will go through the heaviest leather jacket and skin, but won’t go all the way through a torso. And don’t bother telling anyone you used steel, let the Drs figure that out should one of them make it to the ER alive. And if asked later, you duck hunt and simply grabbed what you had close by.

        The clown above either wants to be the “Top Expert” since he hacks every choice given. (10 year olds shoot ARs in competitions) The tell tale is Ears and Hearing. Can’t hear anything for 5 minutes? Really? So all the soldiers from WW1 through the 1st Gulf War didn’t wear ear plugs. Yes, we all lost some hearing, but were able to hear orders.

        So use whatever you have and are good with. If you want to get a specialty weapon go for a Remington pump, Mossburgs tend to break in my experience. And then PRACTICE, a LOT. And when you think you are good, practice aftr running in place and doing a dozen pushups to simulate the stress you are going to feel should the need to use it arises. Anything you are comfortable shooting is better than nothing, no matter who says otherwise.

        Reply to this comment
        • DEFENDER July 4, 04:52

          So Jack:
          Normally I would just let people read what “You say” and what “I say” and decide for themselves who to believe.

          But since you question my expertise I will start with my Certifications.
          So 1st – My Certifications/Credentials :
          State, DHS & NRA Certified Firearms Instructor
          Certified CCW Instructor
          Certified Defense of the Home Instructor
          Certified Range Safety Officer
          AND : Actual, real-life experience Defending myself and others with firearms.
          Sometimes “Under Fire”. Sometimes at night.
          Pistol, Rifle and Shotgun.
          Yes – I have had bullets coming by my head. And had to Defend myself and others with my gun.

          If – A State, the DHS and NRA certified me as a Firearms Instructor + :
          I will take “That” over anything “You” have to say about my expertise.

          And “Some” of my “Experience”:
          I started “Carrying” a shotgun when I was 10 yo- living in the mountains.
          50+ years of Firearms and – Actual – Armed Self Defense experience & Defense of others.
          Current and long time(10 years plus) Competition shooter – Combat Pistol, Rifle and Shotgun.
          I have “shot my way” thru “MANY” FBI Grade CQC “Shoot Houses”. Like the 1 you did.
          And much more.
          CQC = Close Quarters Combat

          Reply to this comment
          • dp July 4, 10:38


            both you and Jack make a lot of sense… Tempers flare, and opinions get posted as facts.

            IMO, shotguns are good home defense guns, but you have to know your weapons and to train. A good 20 GA pump with an 18″ barrel and a shorty stock with a laser will clear a house quickly and efficiently.

            They are quick to top up with practice, and you have a good choice of ammo from slugs to bird shot. The last shell into the mag is the next shell out so shoving in a slug immediately gives you a slug. I would load it up with target ammo, but have various shot shells handy depending on the situation.

            It’s biggest asset is that it is so versatile.

            I have no clue why every wants a 12 GA — bragging rights?, a bigger is better mentality? A 20 GA is a better all around self defense gun for home defense, IMO. Just my opinion. 🙂

            BTW, nice resume, dude. lol

            Reply to this comment
        • DEFENDER July 5, 16:45

          So Jack:
          Normally I would just let people read what “You say” – vs – what “I say” and decide for themselves who
          is a credible source.

          Consider I said this “up front”:
          I am not saying Yes or No to a Shotgun but -Some things to Consider about Shotguns for home defense :
          And shooting “Inside” a House.

          But since you question my expertise(in an ill advised, childish, mean spirited way)
          And considering some of your recommendations range from Ill-advised to just downright dangerous:
          I will start with my Certifications/Credentials:
          State, DHS & NRA Certified Firearms Instructor
          (DHS – Dept Homeland Security)
          Certified CCW Instructor (Concealed Carry)
          Certified Defense of the Home Instructor
          Certified Range Safety Officer
          AND : Actual, real-life experience Defending (with firearms) myself and others.
          Sometimes “Under Fire”. Sometimes at night.
          Pistol, Rifle and Shotgun.
          Yes – I have had bullets coming by my head. And had to Defend myself and others with my gun.

          If – My State, the DHS and NRA certified me as a Firearms Instructor + :
          And considering some lives I have actually saved by using my gun.
          I will take “That” over anything “You” have to say about my expertise.

          Just “Some” of my “Experience”:
          I started “Carrying” a shotgun, 12ga, DblBl, daily(all day), when I was 10 yo- living in the mountains.
          50+ years of Firearms and – Actual – Armed Self Defense experience & Defense of others.
          Current and long time(10 years plus), Weekly – Competition shooter – Combat Pistol, Rifle and Shotgun.
          I have “shot my way” thru “MANY” FBI Grade CQC “Shoot Houses”. Like the “1” you did.
          And much more.
          (CQC = Close Quarters Combat)

          Lastly – But perhaps most important – for the benefit of others not so experienced who may have read your
          Shotgun suggestions, methods and recomendations :
          As a “Certified Instructor” I am compelled to say that some of your recommendations on mods to shotguns
          and TTP’s for Home Defense are unwise, Ill Advised, and unworkable – at best –
          and at worst approach being very dangerous.
          (ps Have you ever considered that “Racking” a shotgun reveals your position/location to your threats?)
          However – With some mods, additions and good choices – A shotgun “can” be a good weapon for home defense but “you” dont seem to have a clue as to how to do it – “Properly”.
          If you are going to offer advise on setting up a gun for home defense you should be at least somewhat versed in most of the current, accepted “Best Practices” – which YOU Clearly are Not.
          (TTP’s – Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures)


          Reply to this comment
  6. Richard June 22, 14:57

    Remington 870 with # 4 buck & AK-47 with hollow points in drum mag. Will do great job.

    Reply to this comment
  7. Mic June 22, 14:57

    The problem here is guns are not the real answer. Numbers of people are!

    You can be mobbed, regardless of what gun you have. As Police have found out, that firing less than lethal rounds tends to infuriate the mob further.
    It also makes them think you will not hurt them.

    Their current tactic is to over run their target with massive numbers of people. Eventually you will stop to reload and they will over run you. Probably beating you to death. Or if that fails, then burning your house down.

    What you need is tear gas or something similar to drive them back.

    I would consider a Dragons breath,(flame round) as the last round in a shot gun. The shock of seeing it, upon the crowd, might give you time to reload before they rush you.

    Reply to this comment
    • Spike June 22, 16:50

      Of course non lethal projectiles aren’t the answer. You’ll quickly change their attitudes when they are showered will blood and brains of the mobsters running ahead of them. A bullet can take out more than one person when they are rushing you in a mob.

      These are terrorists with the intention of taking over our country. That means war and people better figure out that this is real.

      Did you know that there aren’t Federal laws prohibiting Flame Throwers. That’s what YouTube videos says. Also tells how to make them. Just a thought.

      Reply to this comment
    • Consco June 22, 18:30

      Check to see if flamethrowers are legal in your state. They are awesome and it takes advantage of humans natural fears of fire and getting burned. Clearly, obviously not something for inside your house! Figured I would state the obvious for the …..well you know.
      We have numerous types of exceptionally lethal and some non lethal 12 guage rounds. After 8 shots from myself and 8 from my wife if we need to reload we are dead anyway. We also each have Glock 19’s. We carry the same gun for parts interchangeability. They are equipped with Trijicon RMR sights. Old guy friendly.
      We believe AR15’s are a necessity in every home that has people trained to use them. There is a variety of ammo, including frangible, that make them devastating as well.
      Reality is in order to use a firearm in any home you need to train with the firearm and with the other shooters in the house. I would not want to shoot my wife for sure!!! In the even of a huge riot where mayhem and destruction are the sole objectives, either leave as early as possible and let your stuff or house get destroyed or be prepared to defend your self against all comers. If you stay be aware of the ramifications of your decision. If the wife and I are safe our stuff can be replaced. I am not much of a fan of bailing out just on principle, but I can only die once so I want to make sure it is worth it. My TV and microwave are not…

      Reply to this comment
      • left coast chuck June 23, 01:35

        I never had the experience of actually using a flame thrower. I did have the honor of serving with a lot of fellow Marines who had seen combat during WWII in various island campaigns as well as a good many more who had seen action in Korea. From conversations it was my impression that while tank and armored vehicle mounted flame throwers were handy devices to have up frot with the troops when taking out reinforced Japanese bunkers, the individual carried flame throwers left a whole lot to be desired and were usually assigned to either the new guy or the guy most generally disliked by everyone else in the unit.

        Certainly it would not be remiss if defending one’s home to have several bottles filled with some flammable liquid and with fuses fixed ready to be hurled at a moment’s notice.

        A couple or more bottles hurled at a crowd in the street would certainly be a discouragement to coming closer and certainly would discourage anyone from picking it up and throwing it back. Just some food for thought.

        Reply to this comment
    • TheSouthernNationalist June 23, 21:03

      Do like they did back in old England when the castle got stormed they would dump oil on them then set them alight!

      Reply to this comment
    • Jack July 2, 22:48

      I surmise that seeing a swath of fellow rioters drop, along with the blood spray will have more of an effect that the visual of one round of Dragons Breath.

      Reply to this comment
  8. ray June 22, 15:44

    No Glocks ! I am one who is sick and tired of Glock, Glock, Glock in every novel, every tv show, I say BS. We have a whole bunch of high quality hand guns that are easier to use and just as good, I think BETTER than Glocks. You see all of the stuff that you can buy for your Glock, well that’s because they come to you as a second rate POS and you have to up grade to get something you can depend on. You don’t see those things for other guns, because they come to you ready to enjoy and defend your self with right out of the box.

    Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck June 23, 01:39

      ray: Don’t hold back. Don’t be bashful. Tell us how you really feel about Glocks.

      There apparently are no middle of the roaders with regard to Gaston Glock’s invention. Folks either seem wedded to them or are of ray’s mind that they are dangerous junk.

      Personally, I would rather have a Glock than have to point my finger and go, “Bang! Bang!”

      Reply to this comment
      • ray June 23, 13:29

        I’m a conservative and have no problem with you making your own decisions as to your personal choices when it comes to fire arms. I have worked on Glocks and choose not to own one, nore would I give someone I love one, However if I had no choice I would grab one but so far I do have many choices

        Reply to this comment
  9. Raymond Miller June 22, 15:54

    What a crock !

    Reply to this comment
  10. Justin B June 22, 16:05

    One element not discussed is “intent,” that will be drawn out via an investigation of the instance by instance recollection of events.
    I think a .38 snubnose revolver with no hammer – so there’s no way you can incriminate yourself by cocking back the hammer – when you can effectively say it was an instinctual reaction rather than a calculated one.

    Reply to this comment
  11. left coast chuck June 22, 17:00

    This is a good overview of types of firearms for the neophyte who may not be familiar with some of the firearms available in the marketplace today.

    For folks more familiar with firearms, we could argue the merits of one firearm over another. The only true dictum is that there is no one perfect firearm for all circumstances.

    When the .45 acp round was adopted by the U.S. Army available ammunition for handguns, was what the armed services call “ball” ammunition. That is a solid slug that could be either plain lead or copper jacketed lead.

    The .45 acp round was the most powerful round available for semi-automatic hand-held firearms at that time. There were more powerful hand-held firearms but they were revolvers. Generally military forces all over the world were looking to semi-automatic firearms as service handguns for a variety of reasons none of which really merit discussion here.

    We must remember the state of medical care at the time these rounds were adopted. There was no 911 service. There were no highly trained mobile medical technicians able to rush to your aid if you were injured.

    There were no antibiotics. There were no established emergency rooms equipped with the latest medical devices to sustain life. Any opening of the thorax or abdomen was fraught with danger. Blood transfusion if available, was in an infant state. If you were injured seriously enough to need medical attention, you were piled into a car or the bed of a pickup truck and carted off to a doctor’s office. If there were a hospital nearby you might go there but there was no emergency room and generally, no doctor on duty. A doctor had to be called to the hospital to attend to you unless some doctor just happened to be in the hospital at that time.

    All of that made getting shot far more lethal than it is today. With today’s medical care, almost any pistol wound that does not create an almost immediately fatal wound is survivable provided you receive prompt medical attention.

    All that preamble is to say that while the author favors the .45 acp for his self-defense round, there are an equal number of people who are solidly convinced that the 9mm round provides in-target performance that equals that of the .45 acp and has other advantages over the .45 acp. Try to avoid opinions that sound like, “Anyone who doesn’t use .xx cartridge is a fool.” Listen to the enumerated advantages of each before you make your decision.

    What you need in a self-defense handgun is a handgun that fits your hand, that is easy to manipulate, that is reliable. In present day situation, almost any handgun with those criteria will do. In an EOTW situation, there is an added need. It should be a popular firearm. Popularity will insure that spare parts are available. Most gunsmiths can work on it. Accessories will be easily available. A model that was fantastic but only sold a few thousand of that model is a dead end. Parts will be hard to get. Not every gunsmith will have worked on a similar model before. Accessories will not be available or be in very limited supply.

    I may be seeing the glass half full, but it seems to me the country is close to anarchy or some form of greatly expanded lawlessness. With socialist governments releasing prisoners for any number of reasons, be it ill-conceived notions of reformation, deliberately catering to what is a growing number of “constituents” whose vote they pander to; or whatever reason, It is looking more to me that the end of the world as we know it is not going to be some external force, although there are countries that might try to take advantage of our internal situation, but it looks to me like there is a good chance of self-destruction.

    With that thought in mind, were I shopping for a self-defense hand-held weapon today the criteria I would use is the following: Popular cartridge. 9mm, .45 acp, .380, .357 magnum. While the 40 Smith & Wesson cartridge was riding the wave of popularity for a while, it looks as if it is falling out of favor just as rapidly as it gained favor. .357 Sig is a great self-defense cartridge and should be more popular than it is. In my opinion, it is not a good end of the world gun. Neither are the larger revolver rounds like .45 Colt, ..44 Magnum, .41 Magnum or any of the other larger rounds available up to the .500 S&W. They are great rounds and lots of bad guys have fallen to the .45 Colt, but it is a niche round these days and not a big niche. The .357 magnum is the only self-defense revolver gun that I would purchase for an EOTW situation. It also fires the .38 special cartridge and will fire a .38 S&W in a pinch, although the case may have to be sized down to fit.

    Next is popularity of the particular firearm company: Smith & Wesson, Ruger; Sig; Browning; Springfield; there are others too. Not only the manufacturer needs to be a best seller, the particular model should be a top seller too. Every manufacturer has had a good gun that failed to sell.

    Everybody and his brother is selling a 1911 clone. Make sure it is a popular version. Custom made 1911s are wonderful guns to shoot and can help make a good shootist a great shootist, but a custom gun is just that. It has tight tolerances which do not lead to long life and may have parts that are custom fabricated. Custom fabricated parts will be impossible to find after the world ends. That was the big advantage and disadvantage of the true government model. Standardized parts, generous specifications. Wasn’t built to have great accuracy. It was built to fire with minimal care and cleaning and run like the Timex watch.

    Next, but probably should be at the head of the list: Easy to manipulate and fits the hand comfortably.; If there is a possibility that you will be carrying it away from home, ease of concealment would be another consideration, but a lesser consideration. There are all sorts of ways to carry a firearm away from home other than tucked at the 4 o’clock position inside your trousers’ waistband.

    Reply to this comment
    • Consco June 22, 18:54

      Totally agree on all points here LCC.
      We have 22LR, 380, 9mm, 45 ACP. 5.56mm, 7.62×51 and 30-30. Also have 38/357 and LOL had to get a 5.7×28 which I consider nothing more than a plaything. I would never recommend for a main carry/defense gun.
      It is not the number of firearms you own but the amount of ammo/mags/spare parts/manuals, cleaning supplies you have.

      Reply to this comment
    • Tomk June 25, 08:20

      Another consideration of popularity is ammo availability. It seems that almost everybody has a 9 mm and .223. That ammo is cheap to hoard and if you run out, just take it from the guy you shoot, who probably has it in his pocket.

      Reply to this comment
  12. Smitty June 22, 17:35

    Shooting to wound can also get you sued for every penny you have.

    Reply to this comment
    • Raymond Miller June 23, 23:54

      I used to listen to G Gordon Liddy, and he said that when he first joined the FBI the old timers told him that if you had to pull your fire arm then use it and keep firing until the person stopped moving. Sound advise to me.

      Reply to this comment
    • Tomk June 25, 08:27

      #1…Stay alive.
      #2…Get the best lawyer you can afford.
      But…In a SHTF situation, without rule of law, probably not a major consideration.

      Reply to this comment
      • dp June 25, 10:02

        That is why I have insurance. I have insurance against my guns getting stolen through the NRA, and I havw insurance against actually having to shoot someone via the USCCA.

        My USCCA policy has over $1 million in bail and lawyer money, and a network of 2A expert defense attorneys on call.

        Homie don’t play games… I WILL light your ass up, but only if I need to. lol

        Reply to this comment
  13. Who knows June 22, 18:12

    You could always ricochet salt rock off the pavement into their shins they will make them withdraw faster than anything. Call some people may resort to Molotov cocktails splatter on the sidewalk. Who knows, pouring cooking oilAnd spelling 500 glass marbles might go do something I don’t know.

    Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck June 23, 01:51

      I have always wondered about firing rock salt out of a shotgun. I wonder if that is a hold over from muzzle loading days? I have known several hundred gun owners and have never known one to fire rock salt from a shotgun. It seems like a lot of trouble when you could just as easily load shotgun shells with number 12 shot and achieve about the same results and not have to make sure you cleaned your bore right away.

      I don’t know about others, but if I am going to be blazing away at a large crowd with a shotgun I am going to be using something a lot more effective than rock salt or #12 shot.

      In any emergency situation such a an angry mob storming your neighborhood, one must exercise extreme caution that any fire utilized as a crowd control device is deployed with extreme caution. If you have a hostile mob in your neighborhood you are going to be on your own until the national guard arrives (assuming the goobinator of your state has the intestinal fortitude to call them out and order them deployed with live ammunition). Neither EMTs nor fire personnel will respond to a neighborhood were there is the threat of violence, so if you deploy fire and it gets out of control, you are going to be S.O.L.

      Reply to this comment
  14. SCOTTY June 22, 18:30


    Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck June 22, 21:28

      How far can someone throw a molotov cocktail? How far can some big dude who played football throw a brick? How far can a mob all armed with golf ball sized rocks throw them?

      That’s your self defense distance. In my opinion. closer than throwing range is too close when it comes to a mob.

      Reply to this comment
    • DEFENDER June 25, 13:49

      A Judge sounds good to me BUT :
      7 Feet? – hmmm
      Check this out:
      One of the old standards for “Self Defense Distance” ie the minimum distance for a self “Defense” encounter is considered to be 21ft. Look up the Tueller Drill. But “Now Days” many Defensive instructors consider even this distance too close and say 30ft or more.
      At 21ft if a young man charges you – you CANNOT draw your gun and shoot an attacker before you are hit or cut – perhaps fatally.
      Try it – Conceal your gun(use an inert training gun), have a young man run at you from 21ft away – try to draw and get on target before he gets there – hmmm. I have shocked several long time CC guys and women with that one.

      Reply to this comment
      • Tomk June 26, 18:40

        I was in the Pa woods hunting with my .44 one time when I almost stepped on a sleeping deer. He was up and gone before I cleared leather. Even in a calm situation like that, things happen so fast you have no time to think, or in most case, react.

        Reply to this comment
  15. dp June 22, 18:42

    Nothing says “go find easier prey” than a flame thrower…

    Reply to this comment
    • dp June 23, 04:41

      OK. This was a serious post.

      Like most of you, I get that actual replies in my email long before they show up here on the forum for general consumption.

      Please allow me to address these ridiculous replies in advance.

      First and foremost flame throwers are completely unregulated in all most all 50 states…. They are not firearms, so you do not need the permission of your local communist government to either build or to use one.

      LCC I am ashamed of you. You usually research these things rather than a knee-jerk negative reaction. Maybe, I deserved that due to my past affronts, which I apologized for. I have issues, which I didn’t ask for out of life. I’m sorry. That is the last apology that you will ever get out of me about spilled milk, or water under the bridge! I am who I am, deal with it.

      A flame thrower is very simple to build and 100% legal.

      With a home flame thrower. Lets say a 55 gallon barrel of a mixture of gasoline, diesel, and soap… With a 50 foot hose and a pressure washer wand…

      When you see the mob 4 blocks down the street headed toward your house, you have everything that you need from less than lethal to extremely lethal in one package. The fire shoots out around 30 to 50 feet, and it continues to burn on the ground or where-ever.

      You can simply walk out and set up a wall of fire in the street in front of you and your neighbor’s houses that will stop the mob from ever approaching your (or your neighbor’s) home. End of story. If they continue to try to approach you can shoot flames at their feet or over their heads… still no communists actually cooked… just a deterrent.

      If they start shooting at you or try to rush your position, then you can BBQ their communist asses. Trust me, when you set half of the mob on fire… then the other half will suddenly hear their mommy calling them home for dinner.

      People make so many assumptions, and instant judgement’s today. I expect it out of the kids, but not out of this crowd.

      LCC, I thought that you had my 6, and that you would at least look into this before you chimed in. I guess that I hurt you more than I realized… I’m sorry, brother.

      Reply to this comment
    • Bill June 23, 05:11

      I’ve said the same thing. I own a couple of those, both the big one and the smaller one and boy do they throw fire.

      I thought I would NOT have a flame….right away…but if I was in a sketchy situation, I would soak the crowd down with thickened fuel, and let them decide what their next move is….light a match and throw a fire bomb at my home or place of business, or maybe just go home and change clothes and call it a night.

      Even soaking the ground down with thickened fuel outside your place would make them think twice I would hope. I mean who wants to stand in the middle of what could be an instant fire at any second??

      Reply to this comment
      • dp June 23, 10:00

        Thanks Bill,

        that’s exact;y right…

        The flame thrower gives you options. I don’t want to cook someone else’s idiot kids, but I can, and I will if they are trying to set fire to my home while i’m inside of it

        My mom has had 15 or so strokes and is completely bed-ridden and has been for years. So, some Antifa punk setting fire to our house is a death sentence to her.

        Besides, I have over a year’s worth of food and supplies for 4 people in that house. I’m not bugging out anywhere… I am going to arm and train the neighbors, and we are staying right here. If that means cooking looters for dog food, then that was their choice… I didn’t come to their home.

        Reply to this comment
  16. Dan June 22, 18:47

    I recently recommended an XD to a woman who has never owned a gun in her life. She is in her 70’s and lives alone now. She tried a couple shotguns, but they were too much for her. I don’t own an XD, but I got to shoot a female friend’s XD in 9 mm. To quote my son, who also got to try it out, “It practically shoots itself.”

    Reply to this comment
  17. H.L. June 22, 18:47

    It`s a matter of personal choice, whatever you feel comfortable with and can hit your target with is the best choice. Makes no sense to use something you can`t shoot or hit a target with. A lethal shot is well placed but the problem is how long to incapacitate not necessarily kill so in the end each person must decide for them-self but safe to say a .223 -.308 would be on the list some 9mm ammo is just as powerful by way of energy as a .45 a shot gun is for indoor use in a limited area as it has limited range or in dense brush again short ranges involved, a hunting rifle that could double as a sniper rifle in your collection would allow you to handle all situations you would reasonably be in. A reminder that you are in a house or something similar keep multiple guns loaded ready to go so no need to worry about reloading in a pinch 2-3 is always better than one in a combat situation & don`t empty your gun unless you need to always wait and see if any other threats are hiding .

    Reply to this comment
    • Big Dave June 23, 00:37

      The fastest reload is another loaded gun.
      In the crunch, shooting to deliberatly wound is poor technique. Center mass and keep fireing till they stop moving.

      Reply to this comment
  18. Illini Warrior June 22, 19:59

    you shoot – you shoot to kill >>> none of that “just wound them” crap …

    if you have that mentality > don’t even bother to confront anyone – you’ll get yourself and others killed …

    another bullshit mental exercise are warning shots – you have only so many – and – NONE TO WASTE !!!!

    Reply to this comment
    • sammy June 23, 20:33

      When Reagan was Governor of California in the sixties, some anarchist maniac tried to firebomb his residence. His security detail gave chase and fired rounds at him, but the slimy little skunk got away.

      Afterwards, Reagan kept talking about his security team firing “warning shots”, until the head of the detail interrupted him to say, “Excuse me sir, but we don’t fire warning shots. We just missed the son of a bitch.”

      I have been told over and over again that you only bring out a firearm knowing you might have to use it. And if you DO use it, you shoot to kill.

      Reply to this comment
      • dp July 4, 09:26

        While I agree in practice this sentiment will not help you if it goes to court. You shoot at center of mass, which you are most likely to hit, until you stop the threat. Always tell the cops that my life was threatened, and I defended myself. I will come in with my lawyer and make a complete statement later.

        Then shut up. The worst time to try to explain things is right after a shooting because you are in shock full of adrenaline and you won’t remember what you said exactly later. Any contradictions in court with your original story could lose your case.

        This advice comes from many well respected sources… it is not just my opinion.

        BTW, if you carry then I recommend carry insurance. I use USCCA, but there are others. My policy pays up to $1,000,000, and includes bail fees, lawyer fees for a lawyer who is a specialist in shooting cases, and some even include a per-diam, and will replace your gun. (which the cops will keep as evidence)

        Reply to this comment
  19. Big Rob June 22, 20:09

    Some of you folks really don’t have a clue about what to use. So here you go, a tactical shotgun with extended magazine loaded with 3″ #4 buckshot, 47 pellets @.24 diameter. with every pull of the trigger 2 maybe 3 go down.
    It wont take long very long to put them in retreat mode I can assure you.

    Reply to this comment
    • Big Dave June 23, 00:43

      Might be OK if you are big enough to handle the recoil, most are not.

      Reply to this comment
    • slim June 23, 01:01

      Nothing like a Saiga 12 with 20 rd. drum !!

      Reply to this comment
      • dp June 23, 03:13

        Actually, a normal pump shotgun in 20 GA is probably better. The ammo is readily available, the recoil is less. It is quick and easy to feed another round or 3 into the magazine to top it off during a lull in the actual shooting of the shotgun.

        So many opinions from people that have never actually used a standard pump shotgun. There is a trap door arrangement where you just shove single shells into the magazine. It takes 2 seconds to top off that magazine with anything from slugs to bird shot.

        Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck June 23, 02:02

      Not many people can stand up to the recoil of a 3″ high base hunting load Big Rob. Not all of us are as manly as you. We find punching out several magazines full of 3″ magnum loads pretty punishing.

      Part of the problem with universal statements is that there are too many variables to be able to make a blanket statement that applies to everyone.

      You may find shooting 25 or 50 rounds of 3″ magnum loads no problem at all. Plenty of people find firing 2 3/4 inch full loads to have a bothersome recoil. That’s why several of the major cartridge manufacturers are making reduced recoil buckshot loads.

      Personally, I doubt that some rioter could tell the difference if he were shot with a 3″ shotgun shell or a 2 3/4 inch reduced load shotgun shell. But I know the shooter would be able to tell the difference.

      Not to mention the fact that your shotgun magazine will hold a reduced number of shells if loaded with 3 inch as opposed to 2 3/34 inch.

      Why fool around with a puny 12 ga. If you really want to make an impression, get a 10 ga. and shoot only 3 1/2 inch shells. Now that will really make an impression.

      Reply to this comment
      • Justme June 28, 23:05

        Lefty, you’re probably the whiniest cry baby Sissie to post on this forum. You’re a typical califruitcake who can’t see past the big nose that you stick into everyone’s business. If you won the lottery you would complain that you got paid in twenties instead of hundreds. I’m sure that you’re the little smart ass that always got his butt kicked at school and ran home to mommy to cry. Give it a break and keep your dum mass opinions to your ignorant self.

        Reply to this comment
    • ray June 23, 23:48

      Some times just that “Clickity Clack” of a Remington 870 is all it would take to change some ones mind. You don’t even have to know what it is that made that noise and you know you want to leave quickly.

      Reply to this comment
  20. Grandpa June 22, 20:15

    In my opinion, it’s just plain nuts to be thinking about shooting somebody to defend property. No matter how justified you think it is, shoot someone and you’ll be in a world of trouble, wishing you’d just got the hell outa town instead! If these mobs start coming around my neighborhood, I’ll be grabbing my most valuable stuff and getting the hell outa Dodge! Out of harms way! Yeh – I might lose some stuff! Stuff might seem pretty worthless from a jail cell.

    Reply to this comment
    • Spike June 22, 23:33

      Very good point if you live in the city. Out in the country is a different story.
      Every state that isn’t run by communist Dems need to quickly pass “Castle” laws that give us the right to use deadly force to protect our property.

      Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck June 23, 02:22

      Sometimes circumstances creep up on us without us being aware that bad things are happening.

      Let me give you a first hand experience.

      During the evening of the Thomas Fire, I was doing Christmas shopping on line. My phone was beside me and I was half watching the evening news. I am signed up with the county emergency notification service and the local city emergency service. I was once phoned at 0300 to be advised that there was police activity up the block from me and to stay indoors as there was a possible active shooter situation. With that I know that I am connected to at least the local emergency networks and I was also watching a local Los Angeles station because it covers the local news better than the national affiliates.

      There had been an out of control fire raging in the vicinity of my town since 1800 in the evening. I went to bed at 2300 without a single indication that there was anything wrong. People had been evacuated from homes in areas beyond the area where my home was located.

      The first inkling I had was when I got up to use the toilet at 0300 and smelled smoke in the house. I quickly ran through the house and found no evidence of fire inside the house. Upon exiting I saw folks in their cars racing down the street and heavy smoke in the air. Looking around it looked like an artist’s rendition of Dante’s Inferno. Apparently a cop car had raced down the street about 15 minutes earlier with his loudspeaker on telling everyone to evacuate. A lot of help that was to residents who sleep in bedroom at the back of the house or who might be a tad hard of hearing.

      So it’s just possible that the first notice you will have of a mob storming your neighborhood is shouting and general noise and the next thing you see is a group of masked people armed with clubs and molotov cocktails setting fire to cars down the street from you and throwing rocks and molotov cocktails at homes.

      So much for a quick getaway and leaving your home to be looted.

      You don’t know if you will be beaten and possibly killed. You don’t know what will happen to your wife and if you have children, what will happen to them.

      To paraphrase Bobby Burns, “The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.”

      If you plan on bugging out every time there is a demonstration in town, you may wind up spending more time on the road than in your home.

      In addition, you don’t know when some demonstration that you knew about and evaluated to be a few Friends and Universalist Church folk suddenly is taken over by a radical group that wants to use them to make them martyrs and the planned peaceful protest turns into a full scale riot.

      Reply to this comment
      • dp June 23, 12:41

        Situational awareness and getting together with your neighbors is the answer to this. You know that the mobs are out there… are they coming for you??? who knows.
        make a plan ahead of time and have a neighbor alarm system. I am not a fan of bugging out.

        I have built militias. I worked my way up to commanding the intelligence division of my first, before helping to build several others… just organize your neighbors. even the libtards don’t want to be burned out of house and home by a mob of Soros funded Antifa brown shirts or their zombie hordes…

        Reply to this comment
    • Raymond Miller June 25, 14:09

      Like where too ?You won’t get past the first mob that wants your stuff. There was a letter I read a few years ago from a person in Latvia, I believe, and he told how it was when this happened there and it was now cake walk. Best advise, stay in YOUR neighborhood and with YOUR friends and neighbors and help each other. You take off and you won’t get a mile away before you run into someone who wants what ever you’ve got and WILL kill you for it or kill you just to prove what a big man he is..

      Reply to this comment
  21. notanidiotdem June 22, 21:43

    silenced 10/22

    Reply to this comment
  22. ray June 22, 21:48

    I have this recurring dream in which I am armed with a 12ga loaded with fine shot. The rioter throws a Molotov cocktail and just as it leaves his hand I take it out and the gasoline sprays him and he ignites. Karma is good.

    Reply to this comment
  23. Grayman June 22, 22:34

    American are over gunned… Lets look at WW2. The resistance fighters used shotguns and any old rifle they could get their hands on. The .22 caliber rifle and pistol were used extensively to set collaborators, corrupt politicians, and German officers flat out dead. The resistance knew how to shoot. I carried a Car-15 while flying, a M-16 while on the ground, they both were crap. then I found an AK-47 and carried it until the carry was forbidden, as the CIA planted exploding ammo on the trails to be picked by the VC. I tired of hearing how great the M-16 variants are. My rifle team was the first to shoot the M-16 in a national match. Half way thru the match, the match director asked us to cease fire, as our bullets were blowing over onto the targets of other shooters.

    Reply to this comment
    • dp July 4, 08:55

      The actual reason that the AK-47 was forbidden was because the firing sound is distinct, and having friendlies using the enemy’s firearm resulted in multiple friendly fire only battles where we were shooting up our own troops until they figured out what was going on.

      Nothing wrong with an AK nor an AR. What you are posting is actually your opinion, not fact. Nothing wrong with that if you start your post with “In My Opinion” so that new gun buyers don’t mistake it as facts.

      Reply to this comment
  24. left coast chuck June 23, 02:46

    It’s nice to have fantasies about using a Hercules with a minigun on a crowd of agitators or flaming them with a flame thrower. (Knowing what I know from reading about back pack flame throwers, I would really hesitate to monkey around with a home built one.) or mowing then down with a Warthog with a multi-barrel 30 mm cannon, but if we are going to have a meaningful dialog, I think we have to be realistic.

    For the neophyte who is seeking meaningful advice on this list who hasn’t yet committed to acquiring hardware, it is really more helpful to them if the advice proffered is serious advice with practical pointers on practical firearms.

    If you have a favorite firearm that you think suits your purpose, state what it is and your reasons why you think that firearm is best for the situation. Your particular choice may not be suitable for every reader on this list. If your reasons for your selection are sound, certainly the thoughtful reader will ponder them in their selection of a self-defense firearm. Suggesting an armload of panzerfaust or an Ontos with 6 106-mm recoiless rifles sounds like fun but is hardly reasonable suggestion about a serious topic.

    A witty bon mot may be okay for the Comedy Club circuit, but hopefully what we proffer here is sound advice based on firsthand experience or on extensive study.

    While I might not agree with all the firearms the author suggested, that is just a matter of opinion and my opinion is no more valid than the author’s. I think he did a good job of meeting the criteria that I think is what this list is trying to do and that is offer serious, well reasoned advice on serious topics that can have a significant impact on our lives and the lives of our families.

    Thank you, Giurgi C. for taking the time to set down your thoughts on a troubling topic.

    Reply to this comment
    • Consco June 23, 10:35

      Our flame thrower is not home made I can assure you. Not a back pack size either. Wife can and does use it. Has about a 40 foot range.
      Agreed that a mini gun and an AC130 may be a bit much.
      Also agree that firearms will and should be a personal choice as to what fits each person.
      I think we nailed the caliber issue and there is some good advice here.
      I hope everyone thinks about what you need to do before you do it. Microwave and TV are not worth a life.

      Reply to this comment
      • dp June 23, 19:47

        Understood that a microwave and a TV are not worth killing over…

        That is not what the mob is looking for. The people that they drag from their cars and beat to death are not transporting TV’s and microwaves.

        This is communists trying to overthrow our country. whether they blame and target white people, or Trump supporters, or police, or Christians it doesn’t matter… each of them is harboring some perceived grudge, and they are out for blood.

        We are talking about defending our homes, our family, and our livelihood – not a TV or a microwave.

        Reply to this comment
        • Bill June 24, 01:37

          That’s the thing right there, how do you know they’re coming for JUST your TV or microwave when they can go to a Walmart and loot a brand new one, in the box and pickup a new pair…or ten, of gym shoes on the way out the door.

          What does your home have that they can not get at a Walmart…..easy, YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES BLOOD.

          Like you dp, my mother is 91 on the first of July, and really not in any condition to make a run for it.

          To me, a flame throw is a huge force multiplier as far as being less than lethal when you’re just soaking things down and letting others decide what their next move it, but it can quickly turn into a REAL lethal force multiplier if need be…in seconds.

          Plus I feel there’s more control with a FT and where to place fire, than firing a round down range which once fired is on its own.

          Fire is scary, and there’s a reason fire and flames are synonymous with hell and like hell, YOU get to choose if you want to spend eternity in the smoking or non smoking section, and you get to choose here to, what your next move is.

          As the old carnival barkers used to say….Pays your nickle, takes your chances.

          Reply to this comment
    • Tomk June 25, 09:12

      All of your guns fit your hand differently and shoot differently. Although you should be proficient with all of your guns, you should practice the most with the one you’ll most likely be using the most. I take all of my guns to the range or out hunting at different times, just so they don’t get jealous of each other, but the one I keep in the night stand is the one I practice with the most, because that’s the one I’ll have to rely on the most.

      Reply to this comment
    • dp July 19, 04:19


      That is true. But, sometimes it’s fun to take a break from harsh reality, and just throw out some good fish stories with the boys, (and girls) lol

      Reply to this comment
  25. Hillbilly June 24, 20:06

    This is very good information. Be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. But always be prepared.

    Reply to this comment
  26. IvyMike June 25, 01:04

    If you’re facing a squad of Imperial Japanese Marines who are sworn to die fighting and are dug into a cave a flamethrower is a pretty useful weapon, except that in WW2 the Marines considered the average life expectancy of the operator to be 5 minutes. I can’t think of a defensive tactical situation where one would be useful, you’d have to expose yourself to use it and you would immediately be everyone’s primary target. If you want to use fire to defend your home after a SHTF event that includes a collapse of law and order read up on fougasse. Haha flamethrowers are legal but turn one on an mob of unarmed looters (Communist looters? Calling everybody opposed to you commie is about as useful as Yosemite Sam calling everybody Hornswogglers) and you will be locked up for a long long time.
    Dang, this was actually a good firearms article, except for shoot to wound.

    Reply to this comment
    • dp June 25, 02:08

      OK IvyMike this is for both you and Just me. WWII and Vietnam flame throwers were portable back pack units.

      You probably need to read the posts a bit closer, I said a home unit where the fuel is protected inside of your house/garage and you have a 50-100 foot hose… no can of fuel on the operator, and thats a pretty darned good sharp shooter who is going to shoot a a hose through a wall of fire.

      I also said that it was a deterrent because you can lay down a wall of fire before they actually get to your house. A controller fire in the street is not going to jump 50 feet from the street to my house, and I can easily wet down my house with the hose that is out front if it looks like I will need to use the FT.

      The looters may not be communists, but the Agent Provocateurs who instigate the mob violence certainly are, if the mob is doing the dirty work for communists then in this situation they are no different from the communists.

      BTW, I don’t feel like getting into a pissing contest with you about splitting hairs regarding who is a socialist, who is an actual communist, and who is a dupe and a useful idiot.

      Finally, I don’t know where you live, but in my red state torching a mob that is intent on killiin robbing and burning everything to the ground is perfectly acceptable…

      I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6… I’ll take my chances with the law.

      Reply to this comment
      • dp June 25, 07:43

        One final after thought… The people in my small town that are likely to be on the jury would probably give me a metal and a ticker tape parade for saving not only my neighborhood, but half of the town as these useful idiot ass-clowns run rampant torching everything in sight.

        As Bill pointed out, if they were just looking to steal sh!t then they would be hitting the local wally world and not residential neighborhoods…

        These dupes have been lied to for life and told that they are eternal victims — and that the evil white man in the suburbs is who is behind it. They are coming after blood.

        Don’t be a fool.

        Reply to this comment
      • ray June 25, 13:56

        I suggest making your own Molotov Cocktails and throw them at the scum if you see any of them with one. It would be he said she said when the cops want to know how the guy got cooked. I don’t know officer, I think he dropped his cocktail.

        Reply to this comment
        • Tomk June 26, 18:44

          My house is so surrounded by trees that if I or anybody else used any kind of fire, I’d be the one getting cooked.

          Reply to this comment
          • dp June 27, 03:20

            Having few trees, wide paved streets, and well manicured yards which allow for a FT to be used in this situation is likely the only benefit to living in the city.

            Trust me, if I could move out to the country tomorrow then the only FT that I wold need would be a small one for burning the drainage ditches clean.

            Reply to this comment
        • dp June 27, 03:50


          A large sling-shot or throwing stick will give you a range advantage.

          How to make a “proper” Molotov cocktail. (I love how the Brits throw the word “proper” around. lol)

          Buy a case of old filament style light bulbs. A sharp knife will remove the outside contact from the bottom, and a small flat screw driver will break both the glass insulator and the internal glass tube. Fill (no more than 3/4 full) with a mixture of gasoline and dissolved bar soap shavings, or a small amount of diesel mixed with the gasoline. Stuff a rag tightly into the open end.

          Make them up shortly before use, and store them upright in a well ventilated space in the divided boxes that they are shipped in.

          A standard USA household light bulb fits nicely into one of those throw sticks made to throw a tennis ball for the dog.

          I could tell you how I know this, but then I would have to kill you. lol

          Reply to this comment
      • IvyMike June 26, 03:58

        The home flamethrower intrigues me and I’m actually trying to figure out how to build one. My problem is with the limits of the weapon, a 30 to 50 foot range and the need to traverse with it, you have to stand up and expose yourself, it’s an advantage not having a tank of gasoline on your back but anybody 20 yards away with a rifle will put a bunch of size 5.56 holes in your chest.
        You can’t pressurize a 55g drum enough to pipe your material through 50 foot of hose and then 50 feet further so the problem is finding a powerful enough pump rated for flammable liquids. An interesting and potentially expensive design problem.
        There are no more Communists, Trotsky was the last Communist , he was assassinated by Stalin’s agents in 1940 in Mexico City, Ice axe to the skull. As always the truth is hidden behind all these labels. We have met the enemy and he is us.

        Reply to this comment
        • dp June 27, 03:11


          If you are going to try to used a low pressure feed to a high pressure step up at the end then the simplest solution would probably be compressed air similar to a paint ball gun tank. That adds a lot of complexity to what is otherwise a pretty simple system.

          I will say that a relatively thin fluid mixture will go surprisingly far through a fairly small high pressure hose.

          For example commercial paint sprayers often use 25 feet or longer runs of about 3/8 hose. Paint is a pretty thick fluid even thinned down a bit for a spray rig. A spray rig will paint a 2 story house, although scaffolding is the proper way to do the job it can be done from the ground or using a 6 foot A-frame ladder in a pinch.

          Step the hose size up to 1/2 to 5/8 and use a large size beer keg meant to be pressurized, and you could use an air compressor at the keg end for a 50-60 foot run of hose. Possibly longer. Pressure washer wands are ideal for this application once you ensure that all valves, etc are gasoline safe, since the fuel doesn’t actually get lit until after it leaves the end, and they have multiple quick change tips to adjust spray patterns from pin-point to a wide fan, and everything in between.

          Most angry mobs are not armed with more than bricks and molotave cocktails. If we are talking about armed street gangs, then the kiddie gloves come off and we move to plan B which is rifle fire from a fortified position… We are looking to kill as many as quickly as possible at that point because A this is now all out war, and B I don’t want any of them to get past my position to attack my cat-lady neighbor – regardless of how annoying she is in more peaceful times.

          Communists are still around… Like much of what the left does they just change the label when one label takes on negative connotations. Now they call themselves globalists or socialists, and try to hide themselves among the crowd of open border, femanazi, greenies, anarchists, and other various leftist dreamers and misfits. lol

          You are correct that labels are worthless today since the left changes the language so often… only the shadow knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men. 🙂

          Reply to this comment
      • Justme June 28, 23:13

        Don’t waste your time trying talk common sense with Ivey mike. His head is a portable toilet and it’s full of nothing but crap. You would get more done arguing with a block of cement. He will be among the first casualties when the SHTF because instead of taking cover and returning fire he’ll be trying to convince the gang of thugs about to ransack his house that Castro wasn’t a Commie. Would love to be around when the little douchebag gets lit up and has his stash carried off by a gang of looters.

        Reply to this comment
      • Justme June 28, 23:13

        Don’t waste your time trying talk common sense with Ivey mike. His head is a portable toilet and it’s full of nothing but crap. You would get more done arguing with a block of cement. He will be among the first casualties when the SHTF because instead of taking cover and returning fire he’ll be trying to convince the gang of thugs about to ransack his house that Castro wasn’t a Commie. Would love to be around when the little douchebag gets lit up and has his stash carried off by a gang of looters.

        Reply to this comment
      • JustMe June 28, 23:16

        Don’t waste your time trying talk common sense with Ivey mike. His head is a portable toilet and it’s full of nothing but crap. You would get more done arguing with a block of cement. He will be among the first casualties when the SHTF because instead of taking cover and returning fire he’ll be trying to convince the gang of thugs about to ransack his house that Castro wasn’t a Commie. Would love to be around when the little douchebag gets lit up and has his stash carried off by a gang of looters. Total waste of oxygen know it all who doesn’t k ow squat.

        Reply to this comment
  27. Justme June 25, 01:30

    You flame thrower types are overlooking one small detail. That fire that you dump on the ground around your house that you are protecting will most likely consume your house. You see, fire doesn’t discriminate. It burns as long as there is fuel and oxygen. And your house is a nice source of fuel. Take a few minutes to research the lifespan of your average WWII flame thrower guy. It’s probably about 15 minutes. Think about it. Do you want to be a smore?

    Reply to this comment
  28. DEFENDER June 25, 03:57

    A world turned upside-down :

    Thugs are now considered Heroes.

    1st Responders are now Called Thugs.

    My family is 1st Responders.
    So I train them.

    Me ?
    I have a Combat Rifle match Sat.
    Combat Pistol the next.
    Multi-gun the next.
    Every month for 8yr now.

    ie The best way to train for what is coming next.

    Reply to this comment
    • DEFENDER June 25, 09:53

      Told the family, medical responders, they might want to hide all those antennas on their vehicles.

      They said – What about those “Support the Blue” stickers on “my” car ?

      I said, hmm, think I might just add another “Trunk Gun”.

      Reply to this comment
    • dp June 27, 03:28


      Thanks for your service, brother. Patriots still support and appreciate you, and we still have your 6.

      Reply to this comment
      • T July 12, 08:33

        I am VERY confused why some of you are complaining about 12 ga recoil. I shoot sporting clays once per week. I shoot skeet about once per month. I shoot a 12 ga, semi auto (I have used the same gun for years. It has NEVER hickuped). I am an average sized, 53 year old female. I also use the same gun, with slugs, for target practice. You learn to handle the recoil. I agree that some of those feather weight revolvers with .357 magnum are quite the surprise, but you train to handle it. I am not insulting ANYONE. I enjoy that we can debate and agree to disagree. Please, nicely, explain why some cannot handle recoil. My friend owns a S&W500 with a 4″ barrel. I enjoy shooting it on occasion (of course I do not pay for the ammo). I also occasionally shoot my husband’s .44 magnum (not often because it is too expensive). You learn to handle the recoil. Is the issue that people are not training enough? I apologize if I made anyone feel slighted.

        Reply to this comment
        • dp July 12, 16:54


          Some of us can handle the recoil just fine… we just don’t want to.

          I have a Thompson single shot pistol rechambered in .444 marlin. I can handle the recoil for 5 maybe 10 shots, and after that it becomes painful. The same with my 12 ga after a while the recoil steals the fun factor when a 20 ga will do almost the same thing all day long.

          I can handle the recoil on any of my guns just fine. Which are the most fun to shoot?

          The ones that are the least punishing. I can shoot my .45 long colt with buffalo bore ammo and get .44 mag performance, but I can shoot cowboy loads much cheaper and get the same training.

          I can shoot my .44 mag just fine, but it is expensive and at the end of the day I could have shot .38 spl from my 357 and get the same training.

          I have a kick start on my motorcycle, and I can start it that way… why would I want to when I have electric start too?

          Why would I want to make life hard on myself? I have a BMW R1100RT that I can take to the park. It is a great road bike, but it weighs almost 1000 lbs. Why would I take it when I have the KLX250 that is half the weight, can go off road. It is less work to ride, and the fun factor is higher for short trips.

          If I am going to Memphis or to the Ozarks then by all means the BMW has it’s place too.

          That doesn’t mean that I can’t handle the BMW… I just take the lightest tool for the job.

          Reply to this comment
          • T July 13, 00:24

            Thank you dp. I understand what you are saying. It makes sense. Today I shot my .338 Lapua Magnum (my mile gun). After 30 rounds I was done. I picked up my semi auto .223 (it is NOT an AR! I HATE the direct impingement system (way too much gas in my face) and I shot 360 rounds and we had a fantastic afternoon. I love the .223 for 500 yards or less.

            Reply to this comment
        • Tomk July 12, 19:50

          In my opinion, you’re wrong to apologize for making anyone feel slighted by disagreeing with them. I’ve never seen this to be a community of snowflakes that run to their safe spaces, hyperventilating and calling you a racist for saying ” I respectfully disagree”. If that ever happens, I will feel an obligation to slight every one of them before unsubscribing.

          Reply to this comment
          • City Chick July 12, 21:52

            It’s important that we use our freedom and support the First Amendment anyway we can! i for one, do not believe in political correctness! Why beat around the bush when you can just come out and say it? If this continues, – There’s gonna be an awful lot of politically correct folks out there with a whole lot of mental problems! Had to put my Two Cents in!

            Reply to this comment
          • T July 13, 00:43

            I am one of those ‘run away from confrontation’ people. I am still afraid of my mother. My siblings took advantage of me (money, baby sitting, co-signing) until I met my husband. Now he protects my interests. I do not like when I insult someone or hurt their feelings, almost always unintended. I apologize far too often. I cannot help it. In October I punched a guy in my martial arts class and caused a nice gash on his cheek. I am still devastated. I am still trying to make it up to him.

            Reply to this comment
        • DEFENDER July 13, 10:16

          T – Good for you shooting some powerful weapons.

          Yes – For most – Training is a major issue.
          And, like you, this is not meant to degrade anyone here. Just information on typical human and weapon system capacities.. From a Certified Trainer.
          Along with the, inherent, pluses and minuses of each of the 3 common weapon systems used for Home Defense – Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun.
          ALL have advantages and disadvantages aside from the Training issue.

          Pistols – Easiest to maneuver and use “Cover” with, but harder to shoot accurately, especially with low training levels. Easier to store/stage and conceal.

          Shotguns – Powerful, but harder to maneuver in a house, around furniture, and in Clearing/”Cover” Combat Tactics. Wide choice of Ammo Types available. Recoil Control can be an issue – when shooting “at speed”. Low capacity. Reloading is more of a challenge.

          Rifles(AR’s) – Powerful, but harder to maneuver in a house than pistol. Easier to shoot(accurate) than a pistol.
          Recoil easier to control than a Shotgun or Pistol. Higher capacity than pistol or shotgun.
          Capacity – Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun : 30 vs 15 v 5
          Both Pistol and Rifle – ie Magazine Fed – Typically – Much Easier to re-load then a Shotgun.
          AND most dont even consider the use of a light with each system – or have a clue about “how to”.
          Effective use of a Tactical Light with a gun is a whole system/techniques of its own.
          Often a necessity for “Home Defense”.
          Another Problem with “Long Guns” in Home Defense – its difficult to put one in a Night Stand. ie Lock away from kids etc.

          Nor do they(Husbands) typically know accepted Defensive Tactics – the TTP’s of Home and Self Defense (Tactics, Techniques and Procedures).
          The Training issue is a major issue since you have husbands training wives to shoot when they themselves know very little about actual knowledge of Home Defense Tactics and they are not Certified Trainers and thus more often not good “Trainers”.
          Not to mention the Fundamental : Husbands training Wives issues.
          Most Men/Husbands “Think” they are experts but dont have a clue about CQB Tactics or good Training methods – how to actually Train someone – Properly and Efficiently.
          So – Husbands “training” wives is more often Not a good strategy.
          A better strategy is both of you “Together” – train from a Certified Trainer – Together is best if possible.

          In a Real Fight for your life – “Time” is usually a Major factor.
          Another problem with large caliber pistols like 44mag and 50cal is what is called Fundamental “Combat Accuracy” vs “Range Bulls Eye Accuracy”, “Combat Accurate”- Placing as many rounds as possible on the threat as fast as possible with good/effective accuracy ie “Combat Accurate”.. “Anyone” can shoot a 9mm faster, “on target” than a 44 or 50. AND with the higher capacity guns(9mm, 40cal, etc) you have more chances to get rounds “on Target” often 3x more ammo. Say you have 3 threats in your house. One could say – well a 22 can shoot even faster – BUT – the 22 round is not considered a “man stopper” effective round. Although it “can” be – head shots.

          Reply to this comment
          • dp July 13, 12:11

            Good advice here. Another thing to consider is that even if all other differences (recoil, round count, etc) were magically filtered out, that a 44 mag shot inside of a home is going to have more muzzle flash than a low flash 9mm or 45 acp.

            If after your first shot you are blind and deaf, then you are effectively taken out of the fight. I test fired my .44 mag before I bought it, and I thought that it would be OK to fire one test round without hearing protection. This was shot outside, and an hour later my ears were still ringing.

            Just imagine that same gun shot 6 times inside of your house in the dark…

            Reply to this comment
            • DEFENDER July 14, 01:57

              DONT DO THIS
              I shot my S&W M&P9 in the house once – took me a good 5min before I could hear “Anything”. Not to mention it was “REALLY” PAINFUL.
              And it is not much better ie less painful – outside.
              Done that too.
              Something to consider if you shoot then have to call 911 – you will not be able to hear them.

              “Now” I keep electronic ear muffs & plugs by my gun but may not have time to put them on or in.

              44 Mag ! – uhh “NO” 🙂

              All this : Something to know and be aware of.
              Been there – Done that.

              “Dont do that”.

              6 SHOTS (with any major caliber, 380 up)? ALMOST GUARANTY SOME PERMANENT HEARING LOSS.

              Reply to this comment
              • dp July 14, 03:45

                I had a combat veteran friend tell me once that the body somehow protects the ears during a fire fight.

                I never really understood how, but he was not one to make things like that up nor was it exactly his brand of humor to joke about something like that, so I have to believe that he know of which he speaks.

                The body and the brain are given to doing some pretty miraculous things under pressure.

                That being said, if you have time to put on hearing protection – then I would highly recommend it. 🙂

                Reply to this comment
                • DEFENDER July 17, 23:03

                  ELECTRONIC EARMUFFS
                  A good place here to talk about “Electronic Earmuffs”.
                  Like regular Ear Muffs but with say 1 or 2 small AAA batts inside.
                  They Enhance normal sounds, ie you can actually hear normal sounds much more – farther and better,
                  But Gun Shots are muffled out to a low level.
                  So 2 advantages you can actually hear Better but not worry about muzzle blast noise.
                  Used a lot in competitions so shooters can hear commands of Safety Officers.

                  Reply to this comment
    • Tomk July 19, 01:47

      “War is peace.
      Freedom is slavery.
      Ignorance is strength.”

      Reply to this comment
  29. dp July 14, 05:41

    While on this subject of recoil…

    I believe that most of the recoil issue is in people’s minds. By that I mean that it is not a toughness issue, but a personal tolerance and response issue. As an example, some people will want to start crying over pulling off a band-aid or putting hydrogen peroxide on a cut.

    I can shoot a 1911 .45 ACP all day long. I feel the recoil as a gentle push rather than a snap like more powerful rounds. When I train with my .357 or .44 revolvers I use .38 special or low power .44 reloads, and I only fire a few rounds of full house ammo. This is not a recoil issue – it is an ammo cost issue. I also have rubber aftermarket grips on all of my magnum guns, and I fire them often enough to keep my tolerance level up.

    Some rounds are just punishing such as the 50 BMG, but I think that most people that complain about recoil just have a low pain threshold level. My ex-wife was like that… she would sit and cry over a bumped shin for 30 minutes. I just choose a few appropriate expletives, and walk that SH%T off in about 30 seconds. lol

    Reply to this comment
View comments

Write a comment