Scare Them Off Or Shoot Them Dead?

C. Davis
By C. Davis July 29, 2015 10:53

Scare Them Off Or Shoot Them Dead?

Just a bit of food for thought…

While I’m writing this article I’m thinking what’s the best thing to do?

Maybe you’ll help me on this one:

If you were to catch a looter on your property trying to pillage your house, should you scare him off or should you shoot him dead?

On one hand I’m a religious person so I don’t want to shoot anyone unless I really have to, but on the other hand I’m thinking that if I let him go he’ll probably rob (or kill) the next family he’ll find. Or worse, he’ll come back later with his gang and try to gun down my family.

Holding him at gunpoint until the cops arrive is NOT an option. There won’t be 911 when SHTF.

Another option would be to spare his life but keep him confined until the crisis ends. Probably you’ll go to heaven for this, but it would mean sharing your food and water with him, while endangering your family at the same time.

Man… how I would love to see a row of preppers turning in looters at the police station at the end of a crisis. Like for example at the end of the Baltimore riots…

But things are not always black and white.

The people that you see as looters might actually be a couple of dads scavenging for their hungry kids.

Just imagine 10 days of a catastrophic blackout across the US. No cell phone service, no ATM withdrawals, no electricity whatsoever, no cars or gasoline, no water pumps … no escape!!! … just trapped at home. (Click here if you want to watch the video – Blackout USA)

And two strangers come scavenging on your property, 40 feet away from your door. They have a dog and one of them is carrying a rifle. It’s evening and night’s about to fall down. You don’ t know their intentions. Maybe they don’t want to rob anybody. The rifle can be for their protection and the dog to smell for garbage food. Or maybe not!

What do you do?

What are your thoughts? What’s the best thing to do in this situation?

Please share this post so we can get as many answers as possible.

You May Also Like:

Do You Make This Fatal Mistakes In a Crisis? (Video)

Please Spread The Word - Share This Post
Facebooktwittergoogle_plusredditpinterestmail
C. Davis
By C. Davis July 29, 2015 10:53
Write a comment

170 Comments

  1. Chris July 29, 11:27

    If you love your family, I say: shoot them!

    Reply to this comment
    • C.N. July 29, 11:29

      Do you love your family more than you love God? Maybe you shoot two innocent people.

      Reply to this comment
      • Meathead January 9, 15:55

        If they are on my property during a crisis without any warning that they are there, they are not innocent, they ARE trespassing and my property IS appropriately marked. They will a “casualty” of the situation and I’ll be firing up the backhoe.

        Reply to this comment
      • Sunbear March 20, 17:32

        And maybe you shoot 2 killers. Are you willing to take a chance and risk your families lives.

        Reply to this comment
    • Patriot by choice January 18, 18:32

      It may be wiser to try to ascertain their intentions prior to shooting. If you already have the drop on them, your chances of “winning” the confrontation are greatly enhanced if it comes to that. Under SHTF conditions, you may even gain an ally by asking questions first. The situation will determine the outcome, but an attempt at communication, in my opinion, far exceeds the “shoot first” mindset in arriving at a viable (non-lethal) outcome if a non-lethal outcome is possible at that point. Above all, at this point, don’t give away any “free shots” (pun intended) to the anti-gunners. Be wiser by being both aware and extremely responsible in your use of firearms in any and all situations which may require their well reasoned usage to protect yourself, your family, and/or your community. Stay safe.

      Reply to this comment
      • Larry November 25, 16:45

        You have just expressed so good sound advice. I looked at what you wrote from several prospectives (retired LEO, Christian, Dad & Granddaddy), in applying each aspect one common denominator kept popping up. Rushing to a wrong conclusion makes You the guilty one. It’s extremely easy to be full of moncho bravo and act without thinking. I’m trying to remember exactly how a old man expressed it to me. It’s along the lines of; ‘a thinking man wins, while a winning man thinks.’ The simplicity is Thinking makes you a winner.

        Reply to this comment
        • Rawhide June 8, 23:24

          And he who hesitates is lost. Hesitate and you and your family can die. You are responsible for your family and they depend on you for protection. If a person is only looking for food, they will usually call out to see if anyone is at home. If they have other reasons for being there, they won’t reveal their presents. If you are able to get the drop on them, then you can ask their questions or force them to leave. But either way, they may come back with more help. You have to ask yourself, what is more important, the safety of yourself and family or of complete strangers, whose real reasons for being there is unknown to you? That is the real question in this situation.

          Reply to this comment
      • Ernest Lee Beauvine January 8, 01:39

        Patriot by choice is very prudent regarding this issue. The reality of willy-nilly killing would be harsh in a number of ways. However, if it does come down to “me and mine” versus them, guess who I’m gonna side with! My limited experience with cold blooded thieves is that if they get away, they will be back later, or go to your neighbors…

        Reply to this comment
      • Ron B. April 21, 02:03

        Agreed….
        I’m all about defending me & mine evennif it necessitates the taking of another human life to facilitate that.
        At the same time killing someone simply for being in an area without ascertaining their reasons for being there is murder, marked warning signs or not.
        In addition to that, taking the life of another human being changes a person forever unless that person is a complete psychopath with no regard for human life in the first place.
        That is not to say I am against killing for any reason. Some circumstances absolutely exist where killing a lowlife POS on the spot is definitely the appropriate course of action.
        If we instantly kill any and every individual who approaches in a SHTF situation, we are quite possibly diminishing our on chance of survival in the long term by eliminating possible allies or others with useful talents and skills that can be utilized to strengthen our on base of operations. The possibilities there are infinite…
        At the same time, we have to be aware that there are more than enough people out there who are nothing more than parisites who’s only goal is to seek out others to feed and house them without providing any useful contributions of their on. Those parasites absolutely need to be identified ASAP and steps taken to insure they have no doubt that they are not welcome.
        While I do know a lot about a good number of things, I readily admit that I don’t know everything about anything. I guess that’s where networking comes into play. For that reason, it’s highly considerable to have a small circle of like minded individuals one trusts who can convene when the time calls for it to assist for the benefit of all…
        In my mind, there will absolutely be times in a SHTF crisis when killing is not only acceptable, but absolutely vital to insure survival, but there will be inumerable circumstances where killing would be unnecessary and just totally wrong at times.
        I, for one, while I do what I can to prepare and survive TEOTWAWKI, would like to at least retain what I can if my humanity when I reach the other side….

        Reply to this comment
    • Rod March 15, 18:22

      Its not a question of “Loving your family”. The question is impossible to answer without ALL of the specifics.

      Reply to this comment
  2. Ridgerunner July 29, 12:03

    In response to the Biblical reference, the actual translation from the Aramaic is “Thou shalt not commit murder.” Not as usually translated, “Thou shalt not kill.”

    That being said, with someone playing overwatch, I would address the trespassers from cover. Tell them they are trespassing and to put down the weapon and get their hands up. Ask their intentions and go from there. If they fire first, they have stated intent to murder by action, and me and mine have every right to defend with lethal force.

    We also have the option of moving them along peacefully or donating supplies to them IF it won’t endanger me and mind.

    Reply to this comment
    • nancy barratt August 7, 22:45

      Good response!

      Reply to this comment
    • gremlinone February 25, 16:14

      gremlin – I’m 100% with you including the Bible verse translation. You have to kill just to eat even if you are veggan. You are still killing plants for your survival. Nice to run into someone who correctly translates that verse. It really does mean “murder” not “kill”. Completely different in intent. Basically, you “kill” to survive, as to why commit “murder” I’m pretty much in the dark. Killing in self-defense is NOT murder.

      Reply to this comment
    • Kathi June 29, 16:16

      This seems the best rssponse to me. Hope we never face this situation.

      Reply to this comment
      • Ron B. April 21, 02:24

        Absolutely! Hope we never have to face a situation where e have to make that choice but be prepared to act instantly AND correctly if and when the time comes.

        Reply to this comment
    • Larry November 25, 16:49

      You are correct

      Reply to this comment
    • Hank November 26, 00:50

      Ridgerunner. Glad to see you brought up one of the 759 laws that were written for a certain peoples. There is only one seedline that is a covenant to this law and not the many that exist. The concept of this issue. The intruders have arrived to enter and confiscate what is not theirs. It brings up the concept of the 10 virgins, who had knowledge of the coming down of SHTF. Five were prepared and five were not. The door was closed on five who were not prepared and left on their own to pillage for survival. Remember there is only one seedline that is the elect/chosen. They will be prepared and stay out of the way of chaos.

      Reply to this comment
      • Rob January 7, 15:24

        The 10 virgin reference is about the getting into the Kindom of God not self-defense and the like. That being said, Jesus expects us to love others as we love ourselves and if a man strikes your cheek, turn the other towards him as well. To me, this reflects our current laws: if someone is stealing property, then you do not have the right to kill them over it, granted, in a SHTF scenario, your property can mean your life (like food, etc.). Now, as another one commented earlier, if their intent is to do physical harm/kill you, then you have the right to defend yourself. The biggest problem that I see is that SHTF scenarios are uncharted territory and there are exceptions to every “rule”. There were many good examples listed above. Bottom line for me: I really don’t know what I would do until I could access the situation more clearly. My gut would be to try and unarm them first and see what the situation warrants. Sorry for the long response…

        Reply to this comment
    • Sweet Pea June 7, 21:12

      You are correct: “thou shalt not murder” is right.

      Reply to this comment
    • Lehua Lady March 19, 19:30

      I agree with this comment. I would hate to shoot first and then find a young family waiting for their father to return with water and food. BUT, that said, if someone comes to my house with the obvious intent to murder, rape, and then take everything I have….Well, I’ll tap them three times….two to the chest, one to the head.

      Reply to this comment
    • Motorhedd April 20, 17:05

      This is the best answer I’ve seen in line with what I would do

      Reply to this comment
    • Ron B. April 21, 02:07

      Absolutely!

      Reply to this comment
    • Dave from San Antonio June 8, 17:59

      The only problem with donating supplies is that, at that point, they know you have ‘extra’. I’m not saying I wouldn’t, but…I don’t want to run into the ‘stray cat syndrome, either. You are correct on the actual verse translation, too.

      Reply to this comment
    • fiskeharrison December 26, 00:54

      Wow. People believe what you write. Wrong Testament. The Commandments are in the Old one, Hebrew, not Aramaic, and it is kill, murder not having a definition then.
      It’s one thing to be an idiot. Another to encourage others to join you.

      Reply to this comment
  3. Doug July 29, 19:33

    I say if they attempt to breach kill them.

    Reply to this comment
    • Joe August 3, 17:40

      As other and I have stated, they must show intent. An attempted breach is definitely a show of intent. In most places, this is grounds for the use of lethal force.

      Reply to this comment
  4. RADRICH July 29, 23:01

    If their looting stuff that doesn’t affect you (all the super important stuff they won’t be able to get at unless they get past you) and you are in no danger, then NO, you can’t shoot to kill! If you’re a true prepper, scavengers won’t know what you have squirreled away anyway. Call out to them with a hidden over watch and demand their intentions. Odds are they’ll choose to walk away rather than risk being killed if they don’t know what you have! Yes, they may come back with their buddies but at that point, you’ll know their intentions and if you’re properly prepped, they won’t get past you!

    Reply to this comment
    • Rick September 16, 17:04

      Yes then they come back with enough people to over run your site. Sorry shoot first ask questions later.

      Reply to this comment
      • Larry November 25, 16:55

        It’s statements like “shoot first ask questions later” that are getting peppers labeled as some type of fanatics. Being a prepper is about being prepared. Not about being savage minded.

        Reply to this comment
    • Rod March 15, 18:37

      if ,if,,if,. Exactly. Those that are with bad intentions will usually & unquestionaly make that decision for you.And not only be equipped however be prepared too before you & if you open your mouth.God Bless us all and I really hate that we are in a place & time to where this is even a subject to have to be aware of,ya know what I mean ?

      Reply to this comment
  5. Guy Cain July 30, 00:36

    If you have planned ahead, why not absorb them into your camp. They will be grateful and can bolster your forces.

    Reply to this comment
    • pacrat August 3, 17:00

      or kill you in your sleep

      Reply to this comment
    • HisCrownJewel August 3, 20:22

      If they are scrounging for food/supplies already (the parameters suggested 10 days without power) they have not prepared AT ALL! Not even enough to hold through a 10 day outage, let alone months or years. My camp can’t use them, they’re useless if that’s the case. Now, down the road, as those that didn’t prepare are thinned out, I see an advantage for the remainder in various states of preparation (dependent upon many factors such as income, space, resources etc.) to begin to come together to barter and reinstate some sort of government.

      Reply to this comment
    • The Scroger November 2, 15:47

      you have 30 days of food, you take them in, you just cut the amount of food you have for yourself and your family.

      Reply to this comment
      • Harry Vandoloski January 18, 15:51

        Please research EMP …can be caused by a solar flare or one nuke detonated above the atmosphere…It fries the power grid (including electronic ignitions) 2006 Congressional study estimated 90% casualty rate within one year (no way to transport food or medicine, no communication) Large power transformers can take a couple of years to replace under ideal conditions.https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/Large%20Power%20Transformer%20Study%20-%20June%202012_0.pdf….when people at work suggest they would come to my house because they know I am kind hearted….I tell them I would have to choose between keeping my family alive for a year or keeping a bunch of friends alive and all dieing together in a few weeks. I hope I would choose family

        Reply to this comment
        • BillKeen January 19, 14:59

          CAUTION ! ! !

          Everyone needs to THINK before accepting any “expert”s doggerel about ‘EMP’ causing EVERYTHING electric to fail!

          EMP is NOT a continuous electric current such as is available in every house in the USofA today. The solar flare that caused so much trouble in the 1800’s was a long-term event and the continuous current caused many fires over the long wires used for telegraphs.

          The short-term EMP will NOT harm any large current devices, that is, nothing that uses more than a fraction of an amp of electric current.

          Virtually all micro-circuit devices WILL be rendered into GARBAGE instantly unless protected by a Faraday Cage. These are simple and cheap to make for those items that you will be storing and planning on using AFTER the EMP event.

          Aluminum foil completely covering an item and with all seams folded over will suffice to stop EMP damage.

          Common aluminum, steel, or copper screen wiring will work as long as there are no open spaces at the joints. by using a simple rabbet joint and folding the screening around the edges, you can make a ‘box’ of any size to house things that can be accessed quickly and easily.

          Reply to this comment
        • Lehua Lady March 19, 19:41

          “If something happens, I”ll just come to your house!” I hate that. I remind people who say that that I don’t have enough for them, that it’s their responsibility to prepare for their family, not mine! I also say, “Don’t come to my house! We…and our supplies…won’t be there! We’ve bugged out!

          Reply to this comment
      • Graywolf12 June 8, 17:37

        It the grid is down a 30 day supply is nothing. To share might be a nice gestor, BUT I remember a snowflake telling me ” we do not need to stockpile. We will just take what we need from you fools that spend your money to store food for us”. That makes me want to shoot first.

        Reply to this comment
    • Joe January 7, 16:23

      Great answer.. Where do you live?

      Reply to this comment
      • Lehua lady March 19, 19:43

        Giggle! On a small island in the middle of a big expanse of water!

        Reply to this comment
        • Lehua Lady March 19, 19:50

          I’m so out of the way that no one would ever just casually walk past my house. They would have to be actively looking for MY house…and if I don’t know them, they shouldn’t be there. If they insist on coming onto the property, I would assume they were there for unacceptable reasons and would act accordingly.

          Reply to this comment
  6. Joe August 3, 17:36

    I know of no place where you can take a life if you are not threatened, ie your or someone else’s life is in immediate danger. Do not shoot first unless you are absolutely certain or risk going to prison. Racking back on a shotgun, the slide of a pistol or the bolt of a rifle from a safe distance is usually all the warning that people need. Make sure that it is difficult to see you and be behind a barrier. If your gun is trained on them and theirs is still on their shoulder, etc, they will know that you have the upper hand. If after this and possibly a verbal warning they keep coming, you can assume that they mean you harm. Check you local laws. I live in a state with both Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws but could still be charged depending on the circumstances. Even better is to have 3 or 4 people in hiding to “rack back” their weapons. I stopped an attack on a man simply by clicking off the safety and thumb cocking my pistol once. As soon as I showed him my cocked pistol under my jacket, with my finger on the trigger guard, he knew that he was at a great disadvantage. Set up early warning devices around your property, let the trespassers hear them and they will know that you are aware of them. The smart ones, good and bad, will leave; the dumb ones will never learn.

    Reply to this comment
  7. idahocowboy August 3, 18:19

    I’m sorry but I have never seen so many dead people in my life. Yes you, the ones who are questioning whether to shoot. Even if they are just scavenging that in itself tells me they are no prepared and have no food. Either this time or the next they are going to kill to get what they need. They have had the same chance as preppers to get prepared. There are too many people who have thought it stupid to “be prepared”. That thinking just cost you your life.

    Reply to this comment
    • N-49 March 7, 21:54

      I may have enough supplies to last a couple of months, I will probably still be out ‘scavenging’, if I am not threatening you in any way, would you not just leave me be or try to communicate? So many different scenario’s to consider, I could be the guy that can get your vehicle running again, who knows.

      Reply to this comment
      • Ron B. April 21, 02:49

        Or the one with some medical training, or military training, or engineer training….
        Like I said before, the possibilities are infinite. It would not only be flat out wrong to automatically execute any and every individual who approached; it would be monumentally stupid and possibly even hasten your on demise.
        Aside from that , nobody out there can “kill em all” anyway. Rambo is a fictional character made up in the mind of somebody in Hollywood.
        Though I don’t advocate trying to be the next Mother Teresa in a SHTF situation unless one wants to end up as dead as she is pretty quickly, I also don’t advise becoming convinced that one individual has even the slightest chance of holding off the masses of starving, desperate, and even predatory characters who will end up doing nothing they can think of just to get a scrap of food or sip of water alone. That kind of mindset is not only ignorant Nd naive; it’s aelfdestructive as well…

        Reply to this comment
    • Lrlouie November 26, 00:25

      Maybe a better way to handle trespassers is to warn them with signs stating beyond this point trespassers should expect to be held at gunpoint to determine their intentions. This may avoid any unintended consequences, and if they still come forward at least they know what to expect.

      Reply to this comment
      • skinney February 20, 22:13

        I agree with you, assign with intentions is a good idea, I have trespassing signs and all my weapons are sighted in at 500 yards which is the end of my driveway!

        Reply to this comment
    • Terressa June 9, 08:04

      Idahocowboy: AMEN!!!

      Reply to this comment
  8. Vanguard August 3, 20:02

    Maybe they were prepared, but got raided. Since everything of value was taken away on a deuce and a half, they now need to find some food for their family and some medical supplies to patch up their friends, who were hurt during the raid.

    There will be a lot of people who, instead of prepping supplies, are only prepping weapons and numbers, so they can go out and raid preppers and take their supplies. You see these guys on all the prepper sites, and there was even some show and a documentary on TV about it.

    You don’t know if the people approaching you are from the first group, the unfortunate souls, or the second group, a band of marauders.

    If you just open fire, you don’t know how many people are waiting back at their camp for them to return. They, most likely, informed their group members where they planned on exploring. Nothing like getting relentlessly attacked and burned out by people with vengeance on their minds because you slaughtered their family and/or friends.

    Another thing to consider is their backgrounds. All of the conflicts, over the year, have created a lot of combat vets who actually know how to shoot, move, and communicate, unlike the XBox warriors who talk big on Internet prepper sites, but would shit their pants the first time a rounds whizzes past them.

    I think a better bet would be to set up some kind of early warning system and then observe them. If you have enough people in your group, set up guard shifts, perimeter patrols and scouts who go out and check for movement of stragglers and parties. Have your terrain set up, with junk, rocks, cars, and/or foliage (depending on where your HQ/bunker/home happens to be) so that anyone passing through is corralled through a narrow and easily defended path. Anyone with half a brain knows it would be a bad place to try something stupid. Make it tricky to access or even see your entrances/exits.

    Meanwhile, don’t make yourself known, and just watch and listen to them. Is there tension in their group? Do they argue a lot? Are they joking about some house they just raided and murdered the occupants? Are they discussing what food, clothing, and supplies to look out for in order to care for the 10 kids they just rescued from sex slavers? Are they using any military tactics in their movement, like bounding overwatch? Who knows, maybe you like how organized and level-headed they are and you can open some dialog for barter or even a merger. If it doesn’t go well, they are still herded in an indefensible position.

    Unless you know something about the character and training of the people approaching your location, it would be foolhardy to just open fire on them. Would you want someone to just start killing your group if you found yourself having to go out and scavenge for some food, meds, or supplies?

    They may find your entrance forcing you to reveal yourself and find out their intentions. If you set it up where they would be at a disadvantage in conflict, they will either realize it and not engage you, or they won’t, and you may need to do what you need to do to protect you and yours.

    Anyway, there are way to many variables, involving the set up of your “base”, the surrounding terrain, number of people in your group, what skills you all have, your moral physical and mental health, what supplies and gear you have, etc.. I have neither the desire, nor the time to into every possible scenario, so I only offered some things to think about.

    Personally, I have a military background. I can shoot very well, I understand tactics, and I can set some wicked traps. I also have an electronics/computer background, so wherever I may be, if I have access to some scraps, I will MacGyver some power generation. From there I can scavenge and set up hidden cameras, motion detectors, and alarms. Every day, I learn more. I know I am not invincible, so I’d rather make friends and share my knowledge and skills. However, when it comes down to it, if you are aggressive or looking for trouble, I’d rather bury you and yours, than mine.

    Reply to this comment
    • Lehua Lady March 19, 19:54

      Vanguard, I like the way you think. How I wish I had someone with your skills nearby! I don’t have a group…and most in the general area where I live think I’m just a crazy old lady. If you ever consider moving to the Pacific Northwest, let me know! You’d be welcome!
      Giggle, giggle, snort, giggle. Just be aware it rains a LOT up here.

      Reply to this comment
    • Ron B. April 21, 03:00

      Military can spot military pretty much within a few words. You definitely speak my language and I will say with all candor that we seem to share the same mindset…..

      Reply to this comment
  9. Cyrus August 3, 20:06

    The question about shooting looters ? Yes , I will shoot looters, BUT The two men an dog are not looting. They might be on your property, But they dont know if you have bugged out, or not ! They may be out hunting game, An the dog helps them, I would inquire about their reason for being on your property, Then decide what your actions will be. , Of course , being a prepper, This scenario should of been thought about long before it came to pass. So now your decision is immediate.Depending on how they answer..

    Reply to this comment
  10. Rooster Cogburn August 3, 22:29

    Shoot him dead, drag the body out to the road, erect a sign telling everyone, “here lies the last looter that tried his luck”.

    I understand the whole Thou shall not kill thing, but I do believe that to be for murder, not self defense.

    Reply to this comment
  11. LJ August 4, 00:19

    Being a Christian myself, when the SHTF, the first thing I’m going to do is pray! To those preppers who have a doctor, nurse, dentist, a great fisherman, gunsmith, gardener, and most important someone who understands human nature and reads body language, than fire away! Less than 25% of the people in this country have done any prepping. God just might be sending the people, to dig the soil, plant the seeds, bake, can the food so that you last more than 6- 12 months! JUST SAYING

    Reply to this comment
  12. AK Johnny1 August 4, 01:48

    In a pre-SHTF scenario, you challenge them, all the while with your green laser holding steady between the leader’s eyes. Ascertain intentions, and decide from there the course of action if no aggression is demonstrated. Also in a pre-situation, if they broach the perimeter of your home in ANY fashion, dust em, no questions asked. If they had to exert force in order to gain entry to your home, their intentions are clear enough even to the dimmest amongst us….
    DURING a SHTF scenario, all bets are off, and THEY should understand that as well that the parameters of social interaction have changed. If they re on the perimeter of your property, they can be threatened or deterred away. If they are blatently violating your property and they are well within broaching distance of your house, while covered, they get one quick chance to give me something believable and/or plausible. If it sounds like BS, they meet Jesus before I do…..

    Reply to this comment
    • Rustynail August 4, 02:45

      If you post the property with signs saying trespassers will be shot on sight I say shoot them but everything depends on how long you have been in the SHTF position has it been a week or a year you and your own come first if you can help others help those that are your neighbors and you should know who they are

      Reply to this comment
  13. Panthers14 August 4, 04:52

    http://jpfo.org/rabbi/6th-commandment.htm

    In summary of the research I posted above, the ancient Hebrew word, carried over from the Aramaic, used in the Ten Commandments as “thou shalt not kill” is R-Tz-Ch (pronounced Ratsach or Ratzekh) meaning “to murder.” However, there are two other Biblical references to killing: H-R-G (pronounced Harag or Harog) and M-O-T (pronounced Mat or Muth). H-R-G is used to connotate “crimes of passion” or “righteous killing in defense of the defenseless,” while M-O-T is used to connotate “righteous killing with Divine direction/exception” or “righteous killing of those who have or would murder.” Given the evidence uncovered, I would say that as the faithful, we DO have the Divinely-inspired authority to use deadly force….IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES.

    As for the scenario described, I personally DO NOT think that this is one of those circumstances because the two “looters” are not presenting a clear mortal danger to you, your family, or another person or people (potentially, the defenseless). They do not as yet ascribe to Ratsach (murder) by their actions and therefore, in my mind, are not culpable by either Harag or Mat. That being said, I do agree with several others here that non-violent means of confrontation (racking your weapon, showing a superior force of arms, threatening detainment, etc) is necessary in this scenario. If nothing else, some investigating into why they are doing what they are doing is necessary. If they should escalate into violence after you peaceably confront them, then by virtue of Mat, and arguably Harag, judicious marksmanship is appreciated!

    Reply to this comment
  14. bob September 12, 22:13

    Great thoughts in this article. Regarding the last most question: if one is able, i think it is a good plan to have sufficient force available to confront (from cover) and give the “foragers” opportunity to demonstrate their intent. If it is plain their intentions are bad, then force is met with force and the interlopers are appropriately dispatched. If their intentions are more benign, then it gives the “home team” opportunity to either negotiate an arrangement (you and your party go over there and wait. we’ll bring to you some of the provision that you need.), or to send them packing with needs unmet.

    Reply to this comment
  15. Matthew Stephens September 29, 21:58

    Kill one and detain the other. Clean and cook the one and send the 2nd one on his way with 1/4 of the cooked one.

    Reply to this comment
  16. Vince Warde October 24, 20:47

    As a minister with a Biblical degree, I certainly agree that taking a life in self defense is not murder. In the Old Testament, the killing of an intruder is specifically mentioned as being justified. Additionally, someone who wants to steal the food and water your family needs is just as much a threat to your survival as those who may want to shoot you.

    Having said that, just because things are SHTF and WROL right now that does not assure that you will not have to justify your actions legally at the end of the crisis. In short, you had better be able to justify the use of deadly force in the very same way you would do so in normal times.

    What would I do? Well, I would not open fire on them. As others have pointed out, you do not know their intent. Additionally, they could be part of a group with which you could form a valuable alliance.

    I would level my weapon at them and demand that they disarm. Once that is done, I would separate them, question them and evaluate their story. If they are simply a couple of hunters, I would let them go. Ditto if they were intent upon scavenging from abandoned homes (you might have to do that yourself). However, if I was convinced that they were intent upon armed robbery and looting from people sheltering in place – I would then face a very hard choice.

    This situation points out the critical need to organize your neighborhood as soon as possible in a WROL situation. The larger the group, the better chance of survival.

    Reply to this comment
  17. davinsmom54 November 4, 22:49

    How can one prepare cheaply? I live off a small military disability.

    Reply to this comment
    • Ridgerunner December 2, 13:50

      One can of food at a time. Do you coupon shop? Can your own foods and jams? Just a little at a time helps. The biggest thing is to adjust your mindset. Most people live at the local grocery store or Walmart. They only have food for three days to a week in thier house at a time. Start by putting one or two staples aside at a time. Change your perception of what a normal amount of food in the home is.

      Another part of cheap prepping is garage sales, you can get tarps, camp cookware, fire starters, propane stoves, other useful things cheaply that way. We picked up two empty propane bottles for $20 dollars last year–usually $60-80 new. Look for deals.

      Study how people lived during the Depression. Read about how pioneers lived. Study the root cellars, food storage, water storage, and the biggest thing…don’t get caught up in the hype of the newest and coolest gadgets.

      Do your research. Check multiple reviews. Look for independent sources. Research the sources themselves. If you see something you think you need, save for it. It took me two years to get my HF Ham Radio, but when I did, we paid cash in hand for everything we needed to go home and get it up and running on the same day. (Also swapshops, Hamfests, antique stores, Pawn Shops, Army/Navy Surplus stores, and Whatnot Shops are great cheap resources).

      If you have a Kindle reader or app, Amazon usually has a few free prepping books each day. You sometimes have to page through all kinds of free dibble books to find them, but hey, for free ideas and resources, I think it’s worth it.

      Reply to this comment
      • Harry Vandoloski January 18, 16:03

        All Great advice…if you don’t have much money $5 (even$1) per week of extra canned goods is cheap insurance for the future. Canned food beyond expiration date “may look or taste a little different over a long period but is safe to eat “

        Reply to this comment
        • soylentdean March 20, 20:52

          Canned food past it`s expiration date is edible and will satisfy your hunger, but it does lose much of it`s nutritional value over time. It`s important to supplement it with a broad spectrum vitamin and mineral supplement. Be sure to store enough for a lengthy period of time, as the longer your food preps sit the more their nutritional value will decline.

          Reply to this comment
  18. Zeek February 6, 18:33

    Ino a SHTF situation,
    You have to make the decision to accomodate the circumstance.
    1. Some times you have to shoot to kill.
    2.. some times to severely wound.
    3. Use him as a slave till you finished with him.

    #3. Has its pluses and minuses and can be a hardshio.
    #2. It is better that he is left to die somewhere else.
    #1. This is not as easy as it seems.
    Because, do you know how hard it is to burry someone’s body, it is very difficult if done right.
    And if there are more than one, more difficult.
    So all three are what you make of it.

    Reply to this comment
    • Texas Fred January 7, 19:32

      Zeek, a) never, ever shoot to wound, if lethal force is justified. b) The buzzards and wild things have to eat, too. c) Addressing the scenario, above; the two men & a dog… lethal force is definitely not justified, unless and until, they exhibit aggression, like breaking and entering, or pointing a weapon. If someone comes onto my property and enters my garden area, without permission, that would anger me, but not to the level of crippling or taking a human life.
      Grampa, below… If you live in an isolated area, sending rounds down range might scare someone off, but most of us have neighbors. I only have two acres and when an intruder discovers I have a firearm, it should be too late. You only invite ambush, by the bad guys, if you possess anything of value to them.

      Reply to this comment
      • c/ork January 7, 19:53

        Good comments – except when going to a range for sighting in – I can’t remember firing a round that didn’t put meat on the table – being a Grandpa – taught my kids the same – will do so with grandchildren if still around. Rounds are precious!

        Reply to this comment
  19. Grampa February 15, 22:42

    A warning to leave and if they return you say we will shoot indicating more than one gun. A quick rig of fishing line on the perimeter will warn against intrusion If I was casting for food I would return on the second or third night. be aware. An alarm set off in this time should result in shots fired as accurately as possible. different alarms for each side of the compass will direct your shots to the correct area. let them know that you are trying to stop them. Any return fire will locate them and show they are hostile
    Grampa

    Reply to this comment
    • skinney February 20, 22:28

      Grampa, me too. I like how you think. I recently bought a dozen smoke grenade tops online, they make the most excellent trip wire alarms you’ve ever seen! good luck to you and yours.

      Reply to this comment
  20. Ted February 25, 13:57

    This is going to be the hardest thing of all!

    Civility/Morality vs Survival.

    It will have to be decided on a case by case basis. It’d be a good idea to start reading up on body language. This would give some indication of intention upon first sight. Make sure you are behind some kind of protective barrier when making first contact. Be ready to shoot, without actually looking like you are, so as to prevent apprehension. Play it by ear!
    We could go thru 1000 scenarios preparing for this, but when it happens, no one knows how they will react until they are actually in the situation!

    Godspeed everyone! It’s going to get worse, count on it!

    Reply to this comment
  21. BillH March 31, 04:48

    I disagree strongly with “both sides” as presented by others above. Shooting someone scavenging is not only immoral, it invites retribution. Inviting them to join you is very risky. And given large numbers of unprepared people, will quickly deplete your supplies. Warning them off lets them know that you are protecting something valuable, and wastes ammo. Eventually, you will do this to those scouting for a large group, and the jig is up. Giving them a little something and sending them along is an even more dangerous combination of these risks.

    The only responsible answer? Keep yourselves hidden. If someone tries to break in, then act out of necessity. But your primary plan is to be undetected, or if detected, of no apparent value.

    Reply to this comment
    • Calvary April 21, 23:46

      Your conclusion is interesting and might work for your geographical location, and it might work in the early stages of WTSHTF. However, if you’ve prepared for long term survival, more than a year, you should have things that will inevitably attract looters. Your garden, fruit trees, livestock and water to take care of them. Energy sources like wind or solar will always attract the unwanted. These are not easy to conceal. Your livestock make noise and you cannot control that. So eventually it will come down to a decision between your groups survival or the looters.
      My place sits on about 40 fenced acres and the house is fenced inside that on about 4 acres. Motion sensors all around and night vision. Longest shot to the inner fence is about 320 feet. If they approach the inner fence, a warning shot. If they jump the inner fence, a kill shot.
      Anyone who currently lives in the country knows to announce yourself when you approach your neighbors place. In a SHTF situation anything that slithers at night is going to be far worse than what out there today.
      There is no good solution but mentally preparing yourself for what you will or will not do is a good start. It’s said that there are fighters, fillers, and fodder when it comes to combat. That means that some will fight, some are not sure, and some will die as fodder. At lease you can take the time now to decide which you will be.

      Reply to this comment
      • BillH June 30, 19:29

        Agreed, eventually it can come down to a choice to shoot, be shot, or retreat. Agreed, you must make that decision in advance. You decide in advance what the criteria will be. Your layout is intended no only to prevent easy attacks, but also to hide your operation and to make it clear when someone is ready to do you harm.

        Reply to this comment
  22. Wazza May 6, 13:32

    Difficult question here, all anyone can do is be smart, make sure you have the guy with the rifle in your sights, call out for their intent, if he starts to draw, then there is your answer, if he raises his hands, a totally different scenario, I would never let two Men (unknown) into my home, where there is a young girl and two women with disabilities. We know the mindset of many out there, all good and nice to say, give them food and water, you just told them and any of their friends, you have supplies and if you let them go, they will be back. Hunger will drive people to do terrible things, things they themselves never dream they would do, like killing for food when it is your child dying of hunger.
    In a perfect World we could easily say come in and help us out and it all worked out, but we know this is not a perfect World, these two could be scouts for a large group of real animals. If I had to, God willing I will never have to, I would look after mine first, God is not into condemnation, if the act is not of evil intent, he would want us to survive. Not sure how many Christians out there would idly stand by as a group of Animals have their way with their children and Wives, as we see in ME Countries and now spreading into the EU, in all good conscience I could never live with myself for not defending my Wife, Daughter and Grand daughter (7), and in my heart I know God will not judge me or condemn me, I believe I will do all that myself
    Praying that none of us ever face anything like this in our lives, but there are people right now dying for food and water and so called men raping boys and girls for the fun of it.

    Reply to this comment
  23. JIYANI May 7, 09:41

    I would give them a bucket and explain how t get water from the distillation I,of plant water from the solar process, and add that I am armed and in my history I have out shot number four in the top ten NRA.NUMEROUS. times and if they persist in trying to threaten my family, they will meet their demise, I have vfery little provisions that would help them, and my family comes first. take the help I HAVE SHARED AND LEAVE OR DIE

    Reply to this comment
  24. Sharpshooter May 20, 08:32

    In a full blown SHTF scenario and say that 2-3 weeks have occurred where nothing works anymore then those so-called scavengers are desperate by then and capable of doing anything to survive, or they wouldn\’t even still be functioning themselves! There will be many of therm not just one or two but dozens and some formed into ruthless \”do anything\” gangs, so if you are a lone ranger you won\’t last very long without the inclusion of friends, neighbors and family members if there also to have developed a solid defense organization with real firepower, water, food and other reserves of supplies. otherwise you should already have left to arrive at a prearranged remote retreat with a team of trusted people (preppers) along with everything to self-sustain long term and defend adequately or again you won\’t survive. So in either situation, \’Bug in or Bug out\’ you have to shoot the SOB\’s, or they\’ll nail you and anyone with you and the more aggressive you can be about it to end such quickly would be preferred! (Then bury the bodies so no disease occurs.) You are in a \”life or death\” survival situation and that is reality so one must act accordingly or they won\’t make it!
    No more \”normalcy bias\” mindsets for a new type reality has now occurred!!

    Reply to this comment
    • Texas Fred January 7, 20:42

      You have been watching too many Zombie Apocalypse programs… you cannot justify taking a human life, that has not presented a viable threat to your well being and without warning, or you are the criminal. Now is the time to set your perimeters and personally I worked too long and too hard to earn my garden spot to disguise it as a run down, deserted crap shack. I will survive in-place until someone is willing to pay the price to take me and mine, out! Prepare or Perish!

      Reply to this comment
      • c/ork January 8, 00:40

        taking a human life is one thing – correct -however taking a criminal intent on killing or raping your family is quite another – if a person is a real human then they know how to ask and work for what they get! I’m sure Anderson’s mob were at one time human – but one might guess so were Quantril’s – however then they crossed the line they were no longer human but murderers and rapists. We’ve many gangs just like that in almost every urban area of the country – not counting terrorists and those who feel entitled to whatever you have. Prior to the 2012 election – there were those openly and on public transportation indicating how many white people would die! That sounds to me like they’ve a plan – so we better too – and understand that negotiations only aid and abet the enemy – never the victim!

        Reply to this comment
        • c/ork January 8, 00:41

          ps. I’ve no intention of shooting anyone – however, I’m trained to take whatever force necessary to protect innocent humans from the predators.

          Reply to this comment
  25. JP May 20, 16:20

    Unfortunately I doubt “scaring him off” would be an option. He would likely be back and with the advantage of surprise, the next time he may not be detected. I still believe the best defense is to make yourself, your shelter and supplies invisible. Avoid the situation in the first place.

    Reply to this comment
  26. Procius June 5, 20:04

    In this world there are wolfs, sheep, & sheepdogs, using the parameters set for this scenario, I being a sheepdog and having the necessary equipment and skills required to protect my family and property, have no problem in promptly dispatching any & all wolfs that I believe are a threat to me or my family. I believe that I have the required experience in this field to make an accurate determination of the threat level presented and to respond with the required amount of force, up to and including terminal.

    Reply to this comment
  27. Procius June 5, 20:27

    Something I should add to the previous post is that looting used to be a shooting on the spot offense until the world suddenly became politically correct. Now it’s a slap on the wrist and told that’s a no no. Well, I am not PC, not in the least. To me wrong is wrong, right is right, etc, etc and that is that.

    Reply to this comment
  28. TYR June 10, 13:23

    I’m NEVER willing to take a risk when it comes to the safety of my family.

    Reply to this comment
  29. Ákos June 25, 12:36

    Unfortunately, in (the “Peoples Democratic Socialist Republic”of) NY State there is no choice. We are not a “Defend Your Castle” state. Here, you MUST remove yourself from danger and may shoot to defend yourself ONLY if there is absolutely no way to retreat. Even then you will probably be brought up on charges. After all, there’s ALWAYS a way to run away.

    Reply to this comment
    • Henry January 7, 23:11

      In the stated scenario, you will be under Marshall law. The LEOs and courts will need all the help they can get. It will be a totally different situation. There won’t be any place to run to. Just hope there is still a 2nd amendment in play.

      Reply to this comment
    • skinney February 20, 22:34

      Yeh and you let them have your guns too!!! You keep running, just don’t run to my house!

      Reply to this comment
  30. chARley June 27, 20:30

    This is where layers of security become so vital. Signage, soft barriers, light and alarm deterrent, hard barrier, less-than-lethal…and then deadly force.
    Regardless of the state of the world around you – don’t rush to lose your humanity…in the end, it may be all you have left, but until then do what you must to survive.

    Reply to this comment
    • Chinelomna December 28, 21:50

      I appreciate your perspective on this issue, but have one concern. These strangers might be just looking around for food, but if they have come into my backyard through locked gates, their intentions are suspect regardless of what they say or if they leave peacefully. Perhaps they came to evaluate your home and security. If so, donating food might fall under the category of “endangering” your family. If you have enough food to share, you probably have a nice stockpile someplace close. They might recruit some friends and come back to liberate more “donations”.

      Reply to this comment
  31. Spartan777 June 28, 20:47

    Personally, if my son’s and/or cooperative defenders/fellow neighbors are present…I’d do what law enforcement does now. Take control of the situation first, overcome and remove all weapons and then separate them for questioning to get their stories. Stories are BS with no remorse and hostility, chop them in half using my UTS-15 or KSG with my exotic ammo, flechettes, dragon’s breath, Rhodesian Jungle, home defense and if I expend all 15 or 30 specialty rounds (extremely doubtful!) and the job is not done, bring the Governors. If they are father’s of starving families, I plan to provision a charity box on the edge of my property with a wool blanket, canned food, a few other basics to attract them from my home and still provide them
    with some charity. I know that is a weakness and will probably bring everyone from miles looking for handouts…just look at the disgusting fat sobs we have now not contributing and not participating in our system while DEMANDING their stamps, steak and lobster get to them sooner. Beyond Shameful! Like the other posts, I’m still an American, father, husband and Christian above all others and against better judgement, am compelled to help those worthy /legitimately in need. Utterly decimate all evil, prepare and prevail always of course. Back on subject, tough call all around. If you’re sending out strong enough warning signs…prepper’s welcome mats, Indian holes, concertina wire, bearing arms and presenting that you’re prepared to use them the message should be received…go hit a soft, undefended target or face the consequences of your actions. Avoid the pain! When the shtf, the scale shifts and paradigms unfortunately MUST change. As noted in the blog/posts, no 911, no police, no normal respect for personal property, residence, personal space and ultimate violence. Not a good scene, whatever it takes to survive, fight or flight and fight later. Incredibly sad but real fact.

    Reply to this comment
    • just me November 25, 19:33

      You would have a fight on your hands if you tried to disarm anyone in the situation you describe? Reverse the situation? Are you going to give your only means of defense to strangers who will, or WILL NOT GIVE THEM BACK? TRUST WILL GET YOU KILLED!

      Reply to this comment
  32. Hidden July 6, 03:05

    Quiet, the dog might hear you or smell you.
    Depending on the type of dog, its personality and training,, you may get charged and have to shoot it. Then the battle is on, to get them all I will have to fire my weapons. That might bring others, if there are others, down on me.
    How are the men dressed? what kind of hygiene do they look like they have had. Looking at them to see if they are starving or dying of thirst. Does either one look ill, or act out of sorts. If I use my gun I will alert anyone else that they are in trouble and might bring others down on me. Do I have a “QUIET” gun or cross bows loaded and cocked to quietly take them out if needed. Does the one with the rifle, carry it like a military/police person does… ready for trouble or just have it in one hand or on his shoulder like he is on a Sunday stroll?? 40 feet does not leave me much room to stop them if they are trouble, Probably take out the Rifle man, dog, then the other prowler if attacked. If I down them where they stand, cleaning up the mess will be risky if one of their buddies decide to wait it out until I go move the bodies and snipe me.
    Why did I let them get so close to me??
    How could I be so stupid?
    Its starting to get darker
    This might end badly…….

    Reply to this comment
    • JUST ME November 25, 19:29

      AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE? SO FAR ALL THESE COMMENTS ARE ALL ABOUT YOU, NOT YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD OR COMMUNITY YOU ARE BUILDING TO SURVIVE? IF YOU ARE YOU BY YOUR SELVES YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD!

      Reply to this comment
      • Texas Fred January 8, 00:30

        It is great to have a trustworthy support group, but if there are two guys with a rifle and a dog, on my property, say between my garden and my house, then community doesn’t have a helluva lot to do with it, does it? Your decision is to confront or lay low, until the intruder’s intentions are more in focus. Taking out someone that is lost or just looking for a place to take some small game could be a huge mistake. Confrontation could end badly, for either party. Vigilance may be the better part of valor in this case.

        Reply to this comment
  33. DON August 4, 15:59

    As both a combat veteran and retired law enforcement officer, I have mixed feelings about what is or isn’t the best option in this scenario !
    If you can confront anyone from a safe location at a distance and find out what they want or need, then deadly force is not a option “Unless” they won’t go away
    when warned. Having signs prepared before the SHTF event, might help warn off people by stating you will use deadly force if the proceed past the point of the posted sign ! The more people you confront face to face, the more dangerous this becomes to you and others. All ways use decent cover to take bullet strikes and defend yourself from when ever possible ! Then pray you make the right decision when necessary.

    Reply to this comment
  34. Farmer Frank November 8, 01:20

    Most of you are completely missing the real tactical problem.
    Military calls it Fix and Flank. The Flankers win the battle
    The crippled beggar kid in front of you, who gets you attention, is not the one who snatches your purse or picks your pocket.
    The patrol rarely gets the bad guy, but the sniper overwatch gets the bad guys they flush.
    The bird is afraid of the dog that flushes them, but it is the hunter’s gun that kills it.
    Are you seeing the pattern?
    Instead of moralizing, you should be checking you flank or your six.
    And re-read you Old Testament!

    Reply to this comment
  35. Larry November 25, 17:22

    I’m finding it a little disturbing that so many are saying ‘shoot them, kill them etc….’ The immediate response of shoot, kill etc isn’t what prepping is about. Being prepared and able to use deadly force is needed. However take a moment and think. Suppose the person that comes upon your domain trying to find food for his family didn’t feel quite the same about prepping as you? Suppose he had more trust in the G-ment then you. Does that make him a bad dishonest person? Now suppose that the “invader” is a trained medical person ‘Dr, Paramedic, PA, RN-P’ , just because they think a little differently then you doesn’t make them a bad person. IF you shoot them for just showing up you have just deprived YOUR group of a very important needed skill. And if your mindset is to shoot because they walked into your area YOU are a danger to your group.

    Reply to this comment
    • Caro Mc February 18, 20:36

      It doesn’t make them a bad personal until they try to take what you have, and it will come to that. I pray to God that we will NEVER come to this point, but I am a realist and I’m ready to protect the ones I love. And I’m a woman who isn’t afraid to shoot, if I have too.

      Reply to this comment
  36. Bill November 25, 17:56

    Warn then ask. How do you that it isn’t a Doctor or nurse thats been to busy to prepare. I’ll go on short rations to have good medical help close. For your protection and taking them in, you could probably barter their skills for other needed things.

    Reply to this comment
  37. Grampa November 25, 18:33

    it becomes a simple choice scare them off and they will be prepaired next time and have more with them. At some point even with a full auto you run out of ammo. with my average time to eject and change at one and a half seconds. do you know how far a man can move in that time? will you bet your life you can stop them? you can make only one fatal mistake.
    Grampa

    Reply to this comment
  38. Just me November 25, 19:23

    I say you challenge them and order them to halt, Then ask them what they are about! If indeed they are a family foraging then they should be offered a place in your community/group with the warning they break rules/laws justice will be swift and final! And they ‘will’ work for the common good of all!

    Reply to this comment
  39. Blue November 25, 23:05

    I would hold my weapon close at hand and find out their true intentions and also let them know what mine are as well. If it doesn’t turn south and it is as you say just passing by then so be it. If on the other hand they appear shifty eyes and twitchy then they better talk their maker because this seasoned retired veteran is about to open up.

    Reply to this comment
  40. Andy November 26, 15:13

    My question is, what do you do with them after you shoot them. They break in your house to do whatever. ….you kill them. …you now have bodies scattered everywhere, blood ,guts, etc. Your bug in location looks like the final scene in Reservoir Dogs…..now what!

    Reply to this comment
  41. Mike T December 2, 23:56

    Trust but verify, in the words of Mr. Nixon. If you are not part of a group of like minded and equipped camp that can share resources – then get that way now!

    When someone enters your guarded perimeter they are challenged. If they are a bad guy they die. If they state their intentions as peaceful, wanting only to survive,they are put under guard, cared for and watched over, required to contribute as they can.

    United we have the resources and power to survive and come out on top and not have to deny life to those in need.

    Reply to this comment
  42. PB- dave January 7, 15:16

    an interesting group of comments posted here. Obviously, plan as you might you never know what will happen until it happens. The ability to assess personalities and read a persons intent plays a big part in your responses. Turning away all that approach is the goal. If you feel the need to help, you could have a charity poke stashed far away then send them in that direction

    Reply to this comment
  43. sgtmajorbrad January 7, 15:50

    If he’s black he won’t get back!

    Reply to this comment
  44. Joe January 7, 16:57

    I love how everyone plans to respond to intruders like we live in some kind of civilized society. When things go sideways, there are no rules. If the bad guy is at the scavenging level, he will do whatever is required survive. Once you have made contact and asked that they move on, the only thing you’ve done is tell him you have something he wants. Now he has all the advantages. He knows where you are, he has the time for reconnaissance and now he’ll have the element of surprise, Reality of the situation… Your supplies are now his, and you’re dead meat. And believe me, in a true SHTF situation, not only are you dead meat, but you are probably what’s for dinner.

    Reply to this comment
  45. JDC January 7, 16:59

    Good group of thoughts across the spectrum. I would say that there isn’t enough data given…words like looting your house versus scavenging your property are different scenarios. One unarmed (or not visible) versus two, one obviously armed, and with a dog.

    The gent who said “layers of defense” was spot on. Just like personal conditions of readiness, a property during a SHTF scenario may be impossible to defend, or easy, given your level of preparation, its location, and severity of the scenario.

    For those advising to shoot first and ask questions later, I’d remind you that this very scenario played out during Katrina…and several years later they prosecuted cops who killed people wantonly.

    To best answer this scenario, you should a. Know your state laws on self-defense and property. b. Truly understand what situation you are in…i.e. is it a property crime where they are breaking into a car, a house, or attacking you? and c. Use your best defense weapon first: Your brain. Think through it first, pull the trigger as a last resort.

    Reply to this comment
  46. c/ork January 7, 17:12

    Actually we practiced a similar situation in a field exercise.1. an outer defense line with listening devices (battery power – better if solar will rechg during daylight) which are easily hidden and out of sight overhead. You’ve only to do this on areas of egress an approach. Most criminals will pick the easy way in or out. 2) pre-determined out posts (underground with hatches) and a clear field of fire. 3) no one friendly moves around after late dusk or with some type of ID visually seen – anyone else is the enemy (this worked in Korea/WW2/Vietnam); 4) above various warning signs – which mostly will be ignored; 5) A couple of good dogs or better sound effects which can be tripped by someone sneaking in (in field training exercises we killed a lot of the enemy); 6) have a plan with your friends and neighbors – without a plan you’ve nothing! 7) Have your weapons sighted in – you may even leave old practice targets in certain places; 8) become invisible after dark – no lights – no fire place (i.e. one can smell smoke) – blacken windows where you might use a candle (go outside at night and see where there’s light leakage – if you can see it so can they; and 9) you do what you can do to deter – scaring away is meaningless they’ll go after someone else – so it’s your call – remember no electricity – no phones (walkie talkies – seems to me anyone not living in Atlanta or other city have normal hunting gear such as walkie talkies.
    None of us are heroes – but if you’re reading this your a sheepdog (or a predator) – remember in GA we’re all armed and have some abilities – c/ork

    Reply to this comment
  47. Parinoid January 7, 19:55

    Put up a ‘No Trespassing’ sign. If an intruder is on your property… Shoot Them. They’re Gods’ problem now!

    When the Blacks were slaves… America was Great! And guess who wants to make America great Again.

    Reply to this comment
    • Texas Fred January 7, 21:18

      Perinoid, you are not only a bigot, you are an idiot, for advertising the fact. The last thing any prepper needs is to inflame racial tensions, as if they aren’t bad enough. We do not improve our chances for survival, by engaging in race-baiting rhetoric. You sound like an uneducated 15 year-old!

      Reply to this comment
    • Meathead January 9, 16:34

      A common “No Trespassing Sign” from a hardware store has ABSOLUTELY no legal merit. A sign from http://www.narlo.com IS a legal sign. However, a stripe of purple paint is legal notification in many states. https://www.snopes.com/purple-paint-no-trespassing/
      If they are on your properly marked property, they are trespassing and their intent is to deprive you of property and/or cause harm. As far as I am concerned, they have sealed their own fate. Since my family would be safe, the only thing I would feel after I fired would be recoil.

      Reply to this comment
  48. BillK February 5, 16:52

    There just isn’t enough detail to make a decision based on what you stated.

    Were they armed? Did they threaten YOU? What were they doing to ‘pillage’ your house?

    One definition: “to strip ruthlessly of money or goods by open violence, as in war; plunder.”

    Now, if they were jimmying open a window and there was no obvious appearance of anyone living there, it wouldn’t be ‘pillaging’. That would be called “scavenging”.

    If, on the other hand, it was obvious that there were people living there AND they had some weapon handy to attack with once they were inside – THAT would cause me to shoot-to-kill!

    I would hope to be wearing IR goggles so that I could see them in the dark to determine their obvious intent.

    Now, if they were wearing a holstered pistol or had a rifle laying beside them AND the situation was several days POST SHTF, then it would only be normal for everyone to be armed so I would ‘arrest’ them to try to save a life BUT holding them until “LATER” is NOT in my plans. Either they are okay (in my book) or they would be allowed to leave, OR, they would not need anything else. I will NOT play the democrat game of FEED-THEM-FOREVER and clean up after them.

    I will NEVER be a prison guard nor will I support such an action. Either someone is trustworth enough to allow to be free or they will NOT be allowed another chance to harm anyone.

    What did George Washington do?

    He held a common law court in his yard and then HUNG the poacher after the neighbors all agreed that they had also been stolen from and there was not sign of any change in the culprit.

    Reply to this comment
  49. SENIOR April 7, 22:47

    Being Ret law enforcement , involved in 3 shootouts, 1 of which was from start to finish maybe 8 sec’s, and left me with a 7 inch slice to my right arm, “gun hand” to witt had i not been in reverse mode, and all the while drawing to a combat shooting stance to waist high and firing from the hip 2 shots, i maybe would not be here writing this now. I would have to be in a commanding and controlling situation. Shooting 1st with no provocation would cause myself to not sleep well, no cover/cover, how close are they to me, which way are they facing, what are they armed with, how are they holding the firearms, are there other weapons on them? where are those, whats there demeanor, hows that dog acting…. would dictate communication to these perps, as long as one could stay in control of the 2 and doggie also cooperated, “FREEZE” followed by a command to put the firearms down on the deck and hands in plain site and providing they did as instructed, and again doggie did as he was supposed to do…the next question might be able to be asked. If one got that far with no other things going wrong, you might be able to talk with these folks and go further, if not prior to freeze, i would already have been on target to the one that posed the most threat to myself, with the 2nd and 3rd threat being assess after the 1st was neutralized. After that, this could call go bad well within 10 secs. Remember my rule of thumb, is firstly, what are my ability’s, and how do i perceive or sum up my opponents ability’s. A lot goes into this at the drop of the dime and you will be forced to action in seconds. A mans got to know his ability’s and limitations when going up against un even odds.I also will tell the person re: the bibles current translation of killing is not correct, “murder” is the word left out.Killing has no intention, murder does.Its terrible but this is a fact, in those days the blood will run as high as the horses bridal, and many of us will not survive, family’s will turn on each other in a heart beat, for nothing more than a taste.
    Bottom line, whats going to rule out i think, is this, MY HOARD WILL BE BIGGER THAN YOURS….AND MY HOARD HAS MORE BIG STICKS THEN YOU DO….

    Reply to this comment
  50. c/ork April 10, 16:50

    Been following this – if you’ve the decision to shoot and instead just scare them off – they’ll come back or go after someone else. In addition, unless you’ve water, food, power source – they can set up an ambush to get you in the open. Never been much on scaring them off for they’ll just show up again – i’m too old for 2nd chances. We’re not talking innocent behavior – but criminal intent. There’s good guys/gals and criminals. The gene pool will with less criminals – and if I don’t make it well have been dead a couple of times already.

    Reply to this comment
  51. Johnboy May 12, 15:26

    I agree with the thought of being in control of the situation first and foremost. MOST PEOPLE,have no idea,, what they will do. I would like to think that I would do the right thing, and hope they would too. EVERY ONE is going to be afraid of one or two things. Killing a person will have consequences in one form or another, emotionally, and or formally. Most of the people will try to live as they always have, and keep our humanity. But when being put in a life or death situation, you either will be in one or two different categories, fight or flight. This too will also depend on your family situation. I would like to add that what most people call prepping is how I was raised, ON A FARM. The only things we HAD to buy, if we wanted them, was salt, flour, spices and a few other sustenance,s we could not grow or hunt or raise on our own. People have survived for thousands of years without extermination, and we will continue to do so, with Gods help. Most of the people will do WHAT IS NECESSARY, to protect and survive. That being said, God helps those who help them selves and helps others, if we can. I have enjoyed reading these comments, and have been sadden,d too at some of these comments. Those that have stated, shoot first will not survive. Those that choose to band together as a community will make it through. No one is an island to themselves.

    Reply to this comment
  52. john June 14, 02:57

    I say shoot them dead do not give them the Opportunity To harm your family or Jeopardize Your familys survival me personally if my children were hungry I would kill you for your food which makes them an enemy and makes them dangerous

    Reply to this comment
  53. Labienus October 24, 18:07

    Don’t let them Leave.
    Either shoot them to protect yourself and your loved ones, or keep them detained safely until the crisis stops. Mind you, you have to keep them humanely otherwise you will be in deep shit as well.

    Reply to this comment
  54. EnviroKing November 23, 01:24

    I just bought a box of shot gun shells, rubber pellets. I can always slip in more lethal if needed.
    With rubber shells I will not hesitate and it will have an effect. I was told in Afghanistan that 80% of the soldiers would not pull the trigger. I know for sure I would with rubber pellets.

    Reply to this comment
  55. Hidden in Palin sight January 3, 10:49

    I just don’t know about all of this shoot first bs..I would guess that about 50 percent of the shoot first contributors have no military experience.. I n ever pointed a weapon to kill someone until I was inducted into the service and that is when I learned to kill a human being. I will tell all that shooting and killing a man will make a man a very sick looking upon a dead. It amazes me that very few know what become invisible really means .. No calling out no making yourself a target. When the SHTF most will cower and do irrational things and more likely to die .I am not what one would call a preper as I am a country boy that lives in an isolated area I hunt my food with or with out my weapon .. I have learned about food storage and water purification… As for thwarting scavengers it is best to make it look like you already have been looted and burnt out by burning old tires around your property ..make it look like there is nothing left worth looking for Again make yours look like it was pillaged.. Use you imagination to keep it looking more like a bombed and burned out pillaged property .. Only then one can decide to shoot and kill someone or a group moving toward you and yours .. Be prepared to be sick when you finally pull the trigger and kill another human being no matter their intent.

    Reply to this comment
  56. soylentdean January 7, 18:21

    Much good advice, but one was very interesting that I hadn`t thought of, which was to remain concealed and listen to their conversation. They may reveal their bad intentions or brag about what they did to prior victims. I would also recommend one or two members of the group have night vision scopes on their rifles. Anyone approaching silently under the cover of darkness has to be considered a threat.

    Reply to this comment
    • c/ork January 7, 20:08

      This thread has been around for a long time – but soylentdean makes a couple good comments – I go back to the post with listening points – one has to already be in the field to remain unseen to overhear – so this would mean you’ve already roving gangs. This would also mean the loss of law enforcement – therefore your options are limited – by knowing what is going on. Pre-assessment of the situation is important – but considering the options are to either shoot or hide? Then firing positions are equally important. Listening points – night vision – trip wires – these are easy – it’ll always be the shooting that’s most difficult – because once you fire the fight is engaged.

      Reply to this comment
  57. Meathead January 9, 16:06

    Properly mark your property for “No Trespassing” (idiotic sign from Hardware Store doesn’t count. Purple paint stripe on post works for a lot of states.
    https://www.snopes.com/purple-paint-no-trespassing/

    If they are on my property, which IS properly marked, they ARE trespassing which means their intent is to deprive me of my property or cause harm. Therefore, they have sealed their own fate and will be a permanent part of my land.

    Reply to this comment
  58. Wicked January 26, 15:39

    All interesting scenarios and thoughts…unfortunate they won’t be tested and analyzed in advance to provide statistics for the rest of us. That being said, I am torn between both philosophies, and my analysis of the situation would be based on the following:

    Where am I when I notice them?
    Am I in a position to safely take them out if need be?
    Am I able to get reinforcements without putting them at risk by so doing?
    Am I indoors?
    Is it day or night?
    Do or did they already see me, and can I be sure?
    What will it take for me to get into a defensible posture?
    Who or what may I harm or destroy should a firearm battle engage?
    Who around me and my defenses might be caught off guard and become a potential victim?
    Where are the rest of my family/friends? Are they safe?

    And the best part… how much time do I have to analyze all of the above… seconds? minutes?

    There is a lot to be said about true “prepping”. We can all hoard supplies, have a plan, etc. But anyone who has served in the military or law enforcement will still train as often as possible to avoid the situations created when danger confronts us. Fight or flight? Tunnel vision; shaking; auditory excluson; rational thought processing; numbness and more.

    So before you state “I will shoot first, ask questions later” or “I will determine their intentions”, just remember, that you may not have the time to do either with clear mind or excellent skill, unless you train constantly, and even then when the real thing happens, you might just freeze.

    Very few of us have actually killed a human being. And it is easy to say we would, but when push comes to shove, most won’t, or by the time they determine they should, it is too late.

    I trained a lot of ego’s. And one thing is for certain, ego does not pull the trigger.

    God help us all when SHTF.

    Reply to this comment
  59. soylentdean March 20, 21:05

    I`ve seen in survival catalogs saucer shaped listening devices that claim to hear conversation from extreme distances, which would be a huge advantage in a SHTF scenario. Does anyone have any experiences with them, if so, how well do they work? Replies appreciated.

    Reply to this comment
    • PHIL T June 12, 19:01

      Not in civilian life. But there is a company, FightFast where I purchased some booby traps. A bang alerts you quicker than anything and may scare them away along with giving you notice. Can be utilized inside or out and around the camp site.

      Reply to this comment
  60. PHIL TRIMMER June 8, 18:13

    They are armed and on YOUR property. They are now prime targets. As far as the dog goes, if we have the extra food, he an live with us. This also may seem terrible, but as doing a stint in Southeast Asia, if it comes to starving, Rover can become Entre.

    Reply to this comment
  61. EddieW June 8, 21:24

    I’ve always thought if I came home and there were guys stealing my stuff, for the most part, my stuff isn’t worth a human life! If I see them stealing my car, my car is not worth a human life. If they in any way are threatening my life, yes I will try to shoot first and more accurately! Yet at the same time if a squad comes to take my guns, I want to protect my guns and myself…I would shoot when most “men” would simply give them!

    Reply to this comment
  62. Punk June 8, 21:38

    First off if you are prepared and ready as we should be,how did they get to within 40 feet of the house undiscovered/ without notice, first on my list when this goes down are posted century’s, 2nd some type of trip wire with cans or silent alarms, once set off you will quickly find out their intensions quickly and will probably stop dead in there tracks or hit the ground either way you will shortly find out there intensions. As for comments on sharing food I refer back to Noah and the ark , when God closed the door no one was let in and then the flood came. I have been telling friends for a long time to prep but it falls on deaf ears so when they say something like I’m coming to your house I remind them that the door of the ark was not opened once the floods came. We can only pray that it never comes to this, when family asks me what if it never comes I say praise the lord and eat the food spend the money and have fun shooting , but in reality I say that if it does come and the rapture happens , may be that is why we prepped so those left behind might find the lord and be comforted with what we have done.

    Reply to this comment
  63. red rooster June 8, 23:10

    I’ve been thinking about this . Lets say that there is no law ,no trash pick up. If you live in the burbs, what’s to be done with all these bodies piled up around your house???You can’t bury them, or waste fuel burning them.??????

    Reply to this comment
    • EddieW June 9, 02:12

      I live in a high rise, and I worried about that up here, so I bought 2 boxes of large garbage bags, I figure 2 bags to a body, and it will keep juices from despoiling the building!! and hopefully hold the odor down. I bought a couple boxes of rubber gloves to do the job!…My brother was appalled when he learned I bought some body bags!!

      Reply to this comment
  64. PB- dave June 9, 01:32

    Wow ! lotta comments. Without over-thinking this, the article posed a question about scaring off or killing a trespasser. only correct answer is “Depends”. Each situation needs to be evaluated, then acted on accordingly. Protecting yourself is one thing, shooting everyone that steps on your lawn is bad medicine….. one can be firm and still send folks down the road, if they don’t move on then it’s on them.

    Reply to this comment
  65. Frank June 9, 23:43

    I say use your brain and observe. As Patriot by choice said, You should try to determine what their motives are first. I don’t want to shoot people for doing what anyone would do. Scavenging for food and supplies on the street is not the same as stealing from your basement or a tool shed. Legally you have no right to just shoot them because they were walking around. Nor are you in your right to detain them or cause harm to them or their families by your actions.

    Now in regards to the guys with the one gun and a dog…. is it just a guy with a shotgun or hunting rifle or is he dressed up like a soldier? What type of dog do they have and does it come across as a hunting dog, pet, or trained protection dog? What are they saying? Are they searching for stuff, picking anything up? Do they get close to doors or gates?

    If there wasn’t a huge risk to myself, I would prefer to make contact and act like I was scavenging too, offer to work with them. Offer them information like where I saw some discarded items. If they act civil they could become allies. And even if you are mistaken, then you “arrest them” temporarily holding them and then telling them you won’t be their victim or executioner, but intend to drive them someplace safe and let them go. Doing so will not make them hate and want to kill you. So you feed them a day or two. You are treating them humanely and keeping them healthy. In the meantime you find their families or where they live, look for photos or clues like ammo for the weapon or dog food. You might verify their story and find a wife and hungry kids and when you return their father and uncle or grandpa, they won’t blame you for being careful as long as you didn’t hurt them or take their stuff or hold them until their families died.
    Surely they will plead with you, but that might just help you to find out who they are and to verify their identity and their story and intentions.
    Building allies would be better than making EVERYBODY your eventual enemy. And good people will be the last to turn dark as they prefer to stay true to their good nature while people of low moral caliber will be the first to loot, steal and kill.

    Reply to this comment
  66. Reality Check June 10, 06:43

    There are two people in this world. There are Makers and there are Takers. People who are self sufficient and prepare for whatever are typically Makers. Those that have to deal with reality, after it happens, are typically Takers. Our world is filled with an over abundance of Takers. So… when they come to steal or graciously ask for your resources, remember, they are the worst of what DNA has to offer. And the world is packed with piss pour DNA, so converting this DNA to coyote chow is an environmentally proper thing to do. So to be sustainable and green. Turn the buggers into mulch.

    Reply to this comment
  67. Ace June 11, 23:11

    Do what the Police do when they say drop your weapon well they should drop their weapon.You are giving them a chance.

    Reply to this comment
  68. ACe June 11, 23:23

    Some states dont have a stand your ground law.If their told to drop their weapon and get on the ground with hands and legs spread they better do or shoot to kill.Thats what the cops do and works for them! What else can you do?

    Reply to this comment
  69. Red Ant November 16, 14:02

    I find it funny that all this talk is good and helpful, but when it comes to life or death. you will find your self at the end of a gun to protect all that is yours. No matter what. Good luck when it hits. { I will be ready.} It will be very hard to kill some one that is just looking for some food to eat. Some people will be scared or lost. So be careful how you go about it.
    Remember that you will be alone or with others. So be careful of them also. Even the ones in your group. Remember that strange thing will happen to people when thing go wrong… Even your buddy can lose it.

    Remember there will be no help from the GOV or FEMA or who ever it might be saying, we are here to help. Be careful, might be a trap…

    PS: it won’t be like you think, just wait… it will happen, just when????? Trust in GOD if you don’t know what to do. Good luck in your time of destress…. JOHN 3:16

    Reply to this comment
  70. dz December 24, 20:10

    since the situation is not clearly defined, then you will have to evaluate ALL the information you can, sometimes in a split second, and make the best decision you can at the time. You may regret your decision later but I can almost guarantee you will regret making no decision and leaving control of the situation in the hands of strangers, especially in a SHTF environment..

    Reply to this comment
  71. Yosemite January 10, 20:05

    They are 40 feet away..dog and one person armed….HOW is the armed person holding the weapon… slung on their shoulder?
    WHO are they and what do they want? Are they part of a larger group with armed friends ready for an attack? Are they from the Government doing a survey or to inform people in the area?
    Perhaps they are people just traveling though trying to get to their family/ies……maybe looking for a meal or some water or maybe just some information and share/trade information.

    From the information given there is no reason to automatically go Ballistic and shoot/MURDER them!
    Clearly they are out in the open and apparently are waiting for contact and communication…..
    Communication with them will decide their intent….giving them a meal and water might be a good trade for information they may have……OR perhaps they are there to look for allies..
    Perhaps offer them some fishing line and a couple of fish hooks……
    Meanwhile their intent is unknown until communication is made. You may not like them standing there but for them standing in the open says a lot about their intent…they are not sneaking around..

    True they might be RECE for a larger group BUT that remains unknown. They might be searching for a lost child or even a Bad Guy…or anything but bad intentions…..

    Shooting them just because they are there is nothing but MURDER……Maintain cover and concealment or have others cover you or someone else and go make contact with them…….It is too late for an alarm system to be of use……..

    Reply to this comment
View comments

Write a comment

Your e-mail address will not be published.
Required fields are marked*

Follow Us