Editor’s note: This article was written by one of our most respected readers and opinion leader, Left Coast Chuck.
Event: On October 10, 2018, at approximately 0114, a red 2006 Chevrolet Colorado pickup truck crashed while failing to navigate a curve in the road. Two witnesses who were in bed heard the crash and called 911 to inform authorities that there had been what was presumed to be a motor vehicle crash.
Responding sheriff’s deputies arrived shortly after the collision. The first deputy exited his vehicle and saw a man who appeared to be the driver of the crashed vehicle as he was next to the vehicle.
He observed that the man had a knife in his hand and was cutting himself on his arms. The deputy retreated back to his police unit, drew his service sidearm, notified dispatch that he was on scene and that he had drawn his weapon. He ordered the man to drop the knife. The man failed to do so. The deputy went to the trunk of vehicle and got out the less-than-lethal shotgun and loaded it with four rounds of beanbag.
By this time two other deputies, one of which was a senior sergeant with the sheriff’s department arrived on scene and also drew their sidearms and ordered the agitated man to drop his knife. He started to advance toward them with the knife held head high as if to attack.
The sergeant ordered the deputy who arrived with him and had also retrieved a less-than-lethal shotgun from his trunk and had loaded it to fire a beanbag at the man. The deputy did, striking the man in the torso, the man kept advancing. The deputy then fired three more rounds from the shotgun, all striking the man in the legs with no apparent effect. The other deputy also fired a beanbag round striking the man in the legs to no effect.
By this time the man was less than 20 feet from the closest deputy and closing. It was at this point that the two closest deputies felt endangered and fired at the man with their service handguns.
The man fell to the ground. The deputies advanced, disarmed him, turned him face down and handcuffed him and summoned the two EMTs who had arrived on the scene and witnessed some of the events leading up to the shooting and the shooting itself.
The EMTs administered medical attention but failed to resuscitate the man and he was declared dead at the scene.
Michael Johnson, the decedent, (DOB: 09/13/92) was a white male, 5 feet 10 inches, weighing 165 pounds. He lived in Thousand Oaks, had never been married, and had no children. The 2006 red Chevrolet Colorado pickup truck was registered to Michael. He was an active student at Moorpark Community College.
On October 9, 2018, the night of the shooting. Johnson was scheduled to attend a class entitled “Procedures Justice System” between 7:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. However, he went to the Crown and Anchor Pub instead of attending class that night.
Johnson was employed as a police cadet for the Moorpark College Police Department and was not scheduled to work on October 9, 2018. He was interested in a career in law enforcement and had filled out a few applications for employment with local police agencies. He had no past arrests or convictions and he had no history of mental health issues. A search of his room found several empty alcoholic beverage bottles. A backpack found in his truck contained two unopened bottles of beer along with school paperwork.
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Video surveillance from the Crown and Anchor Pub showed that Johnson arrived at the bar at 7:08 p.m. He left the bar on October 10, 2018, at 1:10 a.m. The bar is located approximately .46 miles from where Johnson crashed his truck on East Hillcrest Drive.
From the time Sergeant King and Deputy Czyrklis started moving away from Sergeant King’s vehicle to the time the last shot was fired was 19 seconds. A total of 13 shots could be heard during the incident, however, based on the physical evidence, a total of 15 rounds were fired. It is believed a few of the rounds were fired simultaneously from Sergeant King’s and Deputy Czyrklis’ pistols, causing the shots to sound as one. After approximately 15 rounds were fired, Johnson fell to the ground.
Six bullet fragments and 15 casings were collected at the scene. Eight of the bullets fired penetrated Johnson. The front of the belt had an indentation from a possible projectile strike. Johnson had minor abrasions to the front of his forehead and the left side of his head.
He had more than 15 minor lacerations to his left forearm. He had more than 20 minor and deep lacerations to his right forearm. The lacerations to his forearms appeared to be self-inflicted. Johnson had multiple abrasions to his lower torso, upper torso, and legs which appeared to be caused by the impacts of the less-lethal projectiles.
He had 10 bullet wounds to his upper torso and arms. Based on the locations of the bullet wounds, it appeared he was struck with eight bullets, as two wounds were from bullet re-entries. Three bullets were recovered from his left chest area, right lateral torso, and right pelvic floor. No other bullets were found. Johnson suffered gunshot wounds to the aorta, the vena cava, the liver, and the stomach.
Dr. Young determined the cause of death was multiple gunshot wounds to the chest. A toxicology examination later determined Johnson had a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .27 percent at the time of his death. A toxicology screen of Johnson’s blood tested negative for controlled substances.
The handguns used were a .45 caliber Sig Sauer and a .40 S&W Sig Sauer. As a side note, I assume that hollow point +P rounds were used by the sheriff’s deputies.
Some might be inclined to criticize the shooting performance of the deputies involved. That criticism is ill-founded and is almost always based on a lack of experience in shooting at a moving target in an emotionally charged atmosphere. It exceeds the national averages for shootings by police officers in that the officers involved scored with 8 out of 15 shots — and possibly 9 if one considers the dented belt buckle — which is a 53% hit ration. The national average for such shootings is less than 20%.
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If you have not personally participated in such an activity I would suggest that silence on the topic is warranted. Punching holes in a paper target, running a course at a shooting house or even frequently engaging in paintball activities does not qualify one to pass judgement if you haven’t actually been there.
All three deputies were equipped with body cameras. The first deputy on scene thought he had activated his camera but upon investigation it was found that it had not activated.
As a side note, with hollering at the man, notifying dispatch of the situation, getting his shotgun out of the trunk of his patrol unit and with the tension of the situation, I would think that failing to activate his body cam might be understandable. That was one busy, concerned deputy. It was developing into anything by a routine evening.
The two other deputies did activate their body cams and the cameras substantiated the stories of the six individuals who witnessed the incident. That was three deputy sheriffs, two EMTs and a civilian witness who had driven along the route and stopped when he saw the three sheriff’s vehicles, the EMT vehicle and the decedent’s vehicle.
Note: Good move. Try to avoid driving through an active shooting scene if at all possible.
Some conclusions by me: There were seven bullets which fell we know not where. A good reason not to be around a shooting scene.
As police officers, they are protected from civil penalty and to a lesser extent from criminal penalty for damage their errant shots cause.
As a civilian, you will not have that protection. Your shots that do not strike the criminal will create liability for you if they damage property or wound people. It behooves you, if you use a firearm in self defense to do so prudently. Although the sergeant drew his taser to use, Mr. Johnson was advancing so rapidly, he didn’t deploy it in favor of drawing his sidearm.
A law enforcement officer demonstrates for various police departments around the country how an attacker that is within 21 feet can advance and complete his attack before a defender can draw his firearm from a holster. It is called the Tueller Drill and is used to train police officers to react before an attacker is within the deadly 21 feet. I apparently didn’t include how far Johnson was from the sergeant and the second officer but it was in the DA’s report how far Johnson fell after being shot and it was well within the Tueller Drill distance.
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A chart showing what effects a .27 blood alcohol level might have indicates that confusion, disorientation and stupor may be expected from .20 to .29. Pain sensation is diminished so that one may not notice injuries sustained. Blackouts begin at this level of intoxication and events may not be remembered upon sobering up.
While I am not a physician nor a criminalist with experience in blood alcohol levels, I have listened to enough criminalists testify in court and had private conversations with many. I also attended a one day continuing education seminar on the effects of alcohol on the body presented by a medical doctor/medical examiner. The generally accepted theory is that the casual drinker will be comatose starting at .25. The common opinion is that only drinkers who have experience drinking significant quantities of alcohol can remain mobile at .25 and above.
Based on that posit, we have a 26 year old man who is already an alcoholic.
A further conclusion I feel is justified is that if your home is invaded and, as is more frequently than not, the home invader is intoxicated with either alcohol or drugs or both, he will not be feeling pain the way you might in a sober state. He also will not be capable of reasoned thinking. The only thing that will deter him from whatever it is he is doing will be enough force to stop him physically.
Five bean bags, one on the torso and four to the legs were not enough to deter this man. I have never been shot with a bean bag and hope to keep it that way. I understand they create a large lump and the next day or so you have an impressive bruise. In this case five such lumps did nothing to deter this individual.
I feel you should base your plan of home defense on the most destructive device the law allows you to have in your home, keeping mind that a high powered rifle at close range will penetrate through and through and you won’t know where it will end up. It is generally accepted that even though it is a rifle round and the hoplophobes are constantly harping on its “high power” many shootists feel that the .223/5.56 round is ideally suited for home defense just because it is not the “high powered” round that it is reputed to be.
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Many states do not allow the .223/5.56 round for big game hunting just for that very reason. On the other hand, the venerable .30-30, while on paper delivers similar energy on the target at self-defense ranges, because of the heavier bullet, in some cases at least 2 x heavier and in other bullet weights, as much as 3x heavier, penetrates more and may pass through a human target at bad breath distances.
The district attorney of this county rendered a 41 page report on this shooting. It was my opinion, reading all 41 pages that the report was as complete as it could be. The DA investigator even interviewed the bartender on duty when Johnson arrived and departed before Johnson called it a night and a bar patron who offered to call Uber for Johnson when he left which Johnson refused.
The report included reports of what the two working body cams revealed and statements from all six of the eye witness as well as three people who heard the crash, one of whom foolishly went outside her apartment and was able to hear the transaction although her view of the scene was blocked.
If you have occasion to hear something that sounds like a dangerous police encounter, do not go outside your home. Get to a place in your home furtherest from what is happening. It is much better to read about it than it is to be wounded by an errant bullet — or worse.
We will never know what set off this, up to the point of his death, model citizen, albeit probably with an alcohol problem, to go off the deep end. Folks who are opposed to present police procedures might spend time theorizing that a psychologist on the scene might have been able to talk this individual out of his course of conduct.
There wasn’t a specific time line to all the events, but reading through times that were listed, this whole event went down in under a minute from the time the first officer arrived on the scene until Johnson fell to the ground.
There was only 19 seconds elapsed from the time the two other deputies exited their vehicles until Johnson collapsed. I don’t know how much a psychologist could have accomplished in one minute with an armed individual who appeared to be bent on suicide by cop.
Just this past week we had another case of suicide by cop with very similar circumstances except that the individual was armed both with a knife and a handgun. Again, everything transpired in a very brief period of time, not leaving much time for social discourse. One might argue that the arrival of uniformed, armed police precipitate the actions of the suicidal individual.
So should he psychologist show up at the scene of an armed individual without police support and unarmed himself? I am not sure we would find many psychologists willing to take that risk. I know were I looking for employment, and assuming I were otherwise qualified, such a job would be low on my list of preferred employment.
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Left Coast Chuck. Many thanks for the good reporting. Many times people get to thinking what they see on TV is factual in all cases and this article is an amazing look at the timeline and actual events. At this point you can’t shoot him in the leg to stop the aggressor. Any politician or Monday morning quarterback is just so ill mentally they can’t or don’t want to understand at all.
A nice recounting LCC – it’s amazing the comments that people will make who have never had a large man advancing on them with the apparent intention of killing them.
The officers did everything right. The initial responder called for backup and stayed back, they tried less-than-lethal, and they are NOT obligated to let the bad guy start stabbing them before they shoot.
Someone in the peanut gallery will no doubt make the comment that “21 feet? On the range, I could put three through his kneecap before he could take another step.” Yep.
There is a universe of difference between shooting at a paper target and shooting at someone coming at you when your heart is pounding, you’re suffering stress reactions, and your hands are so sweaty that you can barely hold onto your weapon.
There was a famous shooting I remember reading about many years ago the details which are a little foggy with time. The salient feature is that a SWAT guy, who was a renowned competition shooter, who had a wall full of shooting trophies, entered a hostage situation with a concealed handgun and opened up on the hostage taker at arms-length distance and only hit him THREE times despite emptying his 15 round magazine. If a guy like that can miss under stress, where does that leave everyone else?
My first life-or-death situation (way back in 1986), I experienced all the stuff they tell you about in training: tunnel vision, unable to hear other people, time slowing, etc. It was freaky stuff. The more I did dangerous takedowns, the better I got at it, culminating in a post on a high-risk arrest team on the street drug team. We did gun-point takedowns constantly, and you got so that you could use the adrenaline as an edge and ride the wave like a surfer, boosting you to higher performance and more speed during the arrest. It’s also very easy to get addicted to. Mmm… good times. 🙂
The upshot of all this meandering from me is, don’t expect your first real life shooting to be like it is in the movies – you will probably not be casually tossing off one-liners: “Do you feel lucky, punk?” As you effortlessly point your firearm at an attacker. Everyone is different, but remember to plan for stress reactions when you’re practicing.
Great as always LCC.
Happy Thanksgiving. No other comment. ;o)
“The fatal shooting of Michael Johnson by Sergeant King and Deputy Czyrklis was a justifiable homicide.” …this is mentioned in the conclusion of the District Attorney …
Lily: Thanks for adding that. I overlooked including the conclusion, perhaps thinking that it was self-evident.
This sounds like a rock-solid and objective analysis of the situation. If he had only complied, he’d likely still be alive. There’s so much bias and spin in the world today. It would be nice to take a survey of all officer-involved situations involving death over the last 5 years, discarding all the ones where people were noncompliant, and take an honest look at the data. That would speak volumes.
This is what I don’t get…you have a perpetrator advancing, the police stand there, weapons drawn. At this very point, the police have one option…wait a few more seconds until you have to kill the perpetrator. Why not shoot the perpetrator in the shoulder, or leg to stop him? Why isn’t there middle ground? Why wait till you have to kill the perpetrator? If they’re shooting bean bags, they could have stopped him using non lethal shooting tactics.
Yes, I know it’s a high tension scenario, life and death perhaps, but it seems to me a perpetrator, with a knife, can be stopped and not murdered.
KDC: Spoken like someone who has never fired a handgun in their life. Despite Hollywood depictions where a hero with a snub nose revolver with 5 shots is able to stand off innumerable bad guys armed with automatic weapons, in real life it just doesn’t happen that way.
Tell me that when you go to the range you are able to fine all your shots in the 10 ring at 25 and 50 yards, all 30 shots, ten slow fire at 50 yards, 10 timed at 25 years and 10 rapid fire at 25 years and have all 30 rounds in the ten ring and I will consider your statement as having some gravitas, all the while pointing out that the difference between shooting at a stationary paper target not advancing with a weapon and shooting at an adversary advancing with a weapon is comparing apples and tulip bulbs.
Did you notice that shooting center mass, meaning shooting at the decedent’s body, the officers scored a 53% hit percentage, well above the usual officer shooting average of 20%?
Now consider shooting as the target is moving his legs advancing. What do you think the hit percentage would be, especially if the individual involved is advancing rapidly? Keep in mind that police officers are trained to shoot what is called center mass. They are not trained to do the impossible as in the mythical entertainment field, shoot the gun out of the bad guy’s hand a la the Lone Ranger.
In addition, what is it with shooting in the legs? Do you possibly think that a leg wound that severs the femoral artery in more than one place is any less lethal than a wound that severs the aorta? Okay, so you bleed out in two minutes as opposed to 90 seconds. A severed femoral artery high in the leg is not amenable to treatment by pressure or by tourniquet. It is a hopeless scenario of watching the thusly wounded person bleed out in a matter of seconds. You can apply all the hand pressure you want and the wounded person bleeds out rapidly as the heart continues to pump blood out like a spurting fire hose.
Not to be demeaning, but you sound like good Ole Two-Shot Joe. If an “unarmed” criminal with a knife approaches the police officer . . .”
Say what? Unarmed? With a knife? If I stab you fatally with a knife you heirs will not consider that I was unarmed.
Every see the scars left after a knife attack that was, thankfully, not fatal? Ever see photos of what a victim looks like after an unsuccessful knife attack, you can see the fat layer sticking out, you can see the bone underneath where the cut has expanded due to movement. A knife wound about six inches long will expand to gap about an inch and a half in width. You get a good lesson in skin anatomy looking at such a wound.
You know what I would recommend? The next time there is a trial in your local courthouse involving a stabbing, go sit through the trial during the recess, ask the bailiff or the clerk if you can look at the pictures that are in evidence. Once they are in evidence they are public record. They may not allow it but if you are respectful and tell them you are doing research for an article on stab wounds to the anatomy they may let you see them. In any event, sit in the first row and you might be able to see them as the DA exhibits them to the jury.
It might change your view about knife attacks.
Finally, this particular incident all took place from the first deputy arriving until the decedent fell to the ground in under one minute. It was 19 seconds from the time the #2 and #3 deputies arrived on the scene until the decedent fell to the ground. How much time do you suppose that leave you for contemplation? Look up average reaction time from the time the typical driver sees an emergency that requires application of the brake to the time his foot actually contacts the brake pedal. It is about 3 seconds. That leaves 16 seconds to process what the decedent is doing, draw one’s weapon and activate the weapon. Not a lot of time for allowing the decedent to continue advancing on the officer. It is one thing to watch the seconds tick off on your cell phone and think as you sit there with your cup of coffee that that is plenty of time to make a rational decision to act. I submit that 19 seconds is gone in a flash and if asked to judge how long the time interval was you would estimate a second or two.
I sincerely hope you will consider what I have said and will think about it so that the next time you read about a police shooting where the cops “shot him so many times” you will not be one of those folks who clamor for leg shooting or talking to the perpetrator or worse yet, having a psychologist appear on the scene or originally respond to talk to the perpetrator. Did you read my post asking about how many cogent arguments you could muster in 19 seconds?
I decided to add one further thought.
I was amazed at the sheriff’s office response time. Three officers on scene within minutes of the collision being reported to 911.
That is phenomenal response time. Granted, it was in the early morning hours in a town with a low crime rate, but three officers on scene in a matter of just minutes is something every police department only dreams about.
Also the arrival of the supervisor and another officer was generated by the call of the first officer for backup. I am confident they responded Code 3 which is red lights and siren as fast as they could drive.
Still, kudos to the responding officers and the VCSO for prompt, professional response to a tense situation.
Kudos also to the VCDA’s office for such a professional and detailed investigation and report. I think there would be less criticism of police actions if such reports were more generally available and made public.
And the body cameras substantiated the verbal reports of what happened. I don’t understand law enforcement opposition to body cameras. I have read that reports of inappropriate police action have dropped in the agencies that have installed them.
Orange County CA used to videotape drunk drivers as they were being booked. Guilty pleas to drunk driving charges increased dramatically after the defense attorneys viewed the tape of his client during booking.
Some fool liberal court ruled that it invaded the drunk’s right to privacy and the departments stopped the practice. Right to privacy? Say what? He’s being booked for drunk driving. Everybody in the jail can hear him. Anybody walking by can see him. At that time there wasn’t the internet so there was no chance of him being viewed by millions. In fact, thinking of that, might be a good approach now that we have the internet.
I watched one tape. It was hilarious except for the realization that the fool in the video had been operating a deadly motor vehicle on the highways placing other people at risk of serious death or injury.
Oh, and there was no question he was under the influence. If you didn’t know it was a DUI arrest and had never seen a drunk in person before you might wonder if he was sick or crazy or just supremely uncoordinated and extremely obnoxious of personality.
To KDC…. IF YOU can find a shooting range that will allow this, tape a softball on the end of a rope and have it ready in the target area. NOW , sprint 25 yards away from the firing line then sprint 25 yards back to the firing line. On command “Fire” one person who is behind the firing line in a safe location, pulls the rope with the softball on the end. You pull that pistol and shoot the softball. That’s the level of difficulty you describe trying to hit a small, moving target, while your heart rate is above 120 beats a minute.
Watch this video to better understand the situation…https://youtu.be/Upxfo_jBrDE
This is a depressing topic to start off Thanksgiving Day.
I felt there were important prepper lessons to be learned from the DA’s report of this unfortunate incident. It was and probably continues to be unfortunate for all concerned, including the passerby who accidentally appeared on the scene. Perhaps even for the sound only witnesses who didn’t see anything but heard it go down.
I felt this was a classic, by-the-book, forced-upon-them police action that was initiated by a young man who was, according to the toxicology report, in an alcohol-induced stupor. That said, his actions while in that stupor really left the police no other alternative. As Lance said in his post, the police are really not required to wait until the attacker has had the first shot or the first knife cut before they respond in self-defense. That myth perpetrated by the entertainment media is just that. The good guy doesn’t need to wait until the bad guy has gotten off the first shot before he employs lethal self-defense.
Disregarding all human concerns, from a strictly dollars and cents standpoint, I don’t want cops injured on the job.
Every time a cop is injured on the job it costs us, the taxpayers large sums of money. His pay continues while he (or she) is off the job. His medical expenses are covered 100%. If he returns to light duty, he is getting patrol pay for pushing papers. If he is permanently injured, his full pay, at least in the PDRK, continues for a full year after he is found permanently disabled from police work. His taxpayer funded disability pay is paid for the rest of his life. I don’t have a problem with that. It is the least that he deserves for putting himself on the line. But I don’t want him putting himself in extra jeopardy of injury or loss of life because of some ill-informed arm chair sociologist critiquing a high speed, dangerous interaction while sipping his latte.
I think the lessons for us as citizens and preppers are as follows:
We need to be adequately armed for criminal encounters and we need to be adept in the deployment of those arms.
I had an interesting discussion once with the warden of a CA state prison. She said that the overwhelming percentage of violent crimes were committed under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. That perhaps as high as 98% of the criminals committed to prison on their initial interview not only stated that they “probably” were under the influence of some perception altering substance but were able to recite approximately how much of the substance/substances they had consumed.
With that thought in mind, one cannot expect a criminal whose seems to have the intent to commit violence to act in what would be considered a rational way.
One look at the totally irrational, out-of-character behavior of this individual is certainly convincing evidence to me that the only course of action is physically stopping the perpetrator. Low key discourse, cogent, compelling psychological arguments are totally useless in my opinion.
In addition, this whole incident from the time the first deputy arrived on the scene until it reached its fatal conclusion was under a minute. Tell me how many compelling sociological arguments can you put forth in under a minute while the target of your logic is advancing upon you with a knife?
The second lesson is that the force we are using to make the attack stop must be sufficient. This means a firearm of sufficient caliber to cause fatal injuries. In this case we don’t know in what sequence the fatal injuries were caused but he remained on his feet long enough to allow 15 shots with 8 or 9 hits to his torso to take place. When folks ask, “Why did they have to shoot him so many times?” it is again based on entertainment industry mythology. It doesn’t do you any good to inflict a fatal wound if it doesn’t stop the attack. You can be killed by a dead man if his central nervous system hasn’t yet gotten the message that he is dead. It may be that he has gotten the message and he wants to, with the list bit of will, take you with him completing his original intent.
Third: Teach yourself to move while employing deadly force. Don’t stand in one position. This is extremely difficult to achieve as most gun ranges won’t allow you to move out of your fixed firing line position. In fact, many gun ranges won’t even allow you to draw your weapon and fire. You have to pick your firearm up off the bench and fire it.
You can practice this at home after first making sure that you firearm is totally empty and the ammunition is in another room. You can dry fire and move, dry fire and move. Most competition shooters do far more dry firing than they do live ammunition firing. If it is good enough for a pro, how come it isn’t good enough for you?
MAKE SURE YOUR FIREARM IS COMPLETELY EMPTY AND THE AMMUNITION IS FAR AWAY.
Before you reload your firearm, take a breather and calm down so that you aren’t tempted to do “just one more” after you have loaded your firearm. There are many negligent discharges that happen in that manner. I personally know of two, one of which resulted in a fellow Marine getting shot with a .45 acp at close range.
While I would personally discourage the use of anything but a firearm for home defense, if you choose some other class of defensive weapon, whether it be baseball bat or knife or wasp spray, practice with it. If you do choose to use something like wasp spray, get another type of spray that is not noxious, nothing comes to mind, but perhaps even a pump spray bottle would be okay but I would prefer something that was aerosol, and practice with it with one of your doors open and spraying out through the open door to simulate an attacker who has kicked in your door.
If a baseball bat, get the bat from wherever you normally keep it and see how long it takes you to get into position by each of your doors. Practice swinging it as if you were hitting an attacker. You may quickly find out that the lamp you thought was safely out of range of your bat in a full swing is now in jeopardy. In a life threatening situation you might not care that the very expensive lamp gets smashed to smithereens as you take out Bobby Bad Guy, but it just might deflect your blow too, so it is good to know.
Do the same with a knife. What type of attack is most comfortable for you? Ice pick? Saber grip? Reverse grip? Have you read any books on the most vulnerable spots on the human body for a knife attack so that you don’t just wind up making superficial cuts on the surface and don’t reach a critical area that will defeat your opponent? People who have been in knife fights expect to get cut. They have learned to ignore cuts. Just because you cut the bad guy doesn’t mean he is going to give up. Look at subject case. He was hit five times with a bean bag from a 12 gauge shotgun. Didn’t faze him a bit. He was hit with 9 handgun shots before he finally fell down. He had already cut himself numerous times with apparently no ill effects whatsoever. Do you really think if you had slashed him superficially with a knife it would have stopped him?
As Lance pointed out, even with significant amount of training, it doesn’t count for much in a life threatening situation. I have only had one occasion to point a firearm at a person with lethal intent. It was lucky for me the perp ran away instead of choosing to attack. I fumbled that whole thing so badly I was lucky I didn’t end up wearing my M-1 in some body orifice. I was in the Marine Corps and I had fired sharpshooter in qualifying with the firearm. I had taken it apart and put it back together so many times, while I never did it blindfolded, I am confident I could have. I had performed the manual of arms, loaded and unloaded it so many times I could have done it in my sleep. I still fumbled and bumbled as if it were the first time I had ever handled a firearm in my life.
Final lesson reiterated: Whatever weapon you think appropriate, train, train, train. If a handgun, you can find IDPA (Individual defense pistol association) competitions. Attend and then compete. You don’t have to walk away with first place, you are going for the experience.
If a rifle is included in your defense plans, go to a 3-gun competition. If you don’t have one of the three guns, just do whatever part of the competition you do have firearms for. Sometimes one of the other competitors will let you use their firearm for that leg of the competition. Back in the days of cheap ammo they would even give you the ammo for the leg. I think those days may be gone forever. Offer to pay for the ammo if they proffer it to you. They may refuse, but press them to accept. The offer, even if they prevail in refusing will be appreciated.
As for baseball bats, maybe a trip to a public batting range would allow you to get back in the technique of swinging. Has it actually been 25 years since you swung a bat at a ball? Time goes by so swiftly. Yes, it seems like it was just yesterday but you were 22 and now you are 47. If you are a woman and the last time you swung a bat was in the girls softball league when you were 12 and now you are 50, it is more important to practice swinging that bat. Remember how hard it was to hit a softball? Now you are tense and nervous and shaky from an adrenaline rush and Billy Bad Guy is rushing at you with a knife. Is this the time to be swing a bat for the first time is 30 years?
I’ve got to go check the turkey. Hope your Thanksgiving Day was joyful despite all the gloom and doom. Remember despite everything that is wrong with the country we don’t have a steady stream of folks leaving to go to some other country. The flow is inward, not outward, There must be some reason why people try so hard to get here. Let’s be thankful it is that way and not the other way.
LCC. Most excellent advice. Perhaps you could talk Claude into writing this as a front line article. Also, it sounds like you’ve had more experience than you’ve noted here. Good thinking, good writing. Many thanks.
Many “Thanks” Chuck for this article and all you do!
WOW Left Coast Chuck, your writing style is terrific! Exceptionally reported this situation, perfectly understandable, and in depth. I felt as if I had witnessed this myself. Looking forward to your next article.
I agree with it being justifiable . We had a home invasion a few years back. I was away on a hunting trip and my wife and son were home. It was early in the morning when they were awaken by a crash and alarm. When they opened a bedroom door there was a man halfway in the window. My son had a gun and the man was screaming at them. My son fired and knocked him out of the window and he got up and started coming in again. My wife took the gun and shot him 5 more times. He survived his wounds and later stated he was unjustly shot. Of course the liberal media tried to make a big deal out of being shot by two people with the same gun. The DAs office sided with us. He was later charged with criminal mischief and served 6 weeks in jail. He had several DWI convictions and was later arrested for another. He got a year in jail for that one. When is enough of these people being slapped on the wrist and released to possibly kill someone next time
A few years ago at our farm we had yet another “incident” during opening day of deer season. It’s like 430 a.m., and we hear this ‘blub-blub-blub” of a beater car and then the noise stops suddenly.
For better or worse, our farm is adjacent to a huge state park, wildlife area, and hunting zone. Only issue: the hunting zone backs-up to our place–the entrance is about 7 miles away, down a few roads.
So I gander out the window, and yep–see this beater of an old van parked about 1,000 feet from the house and a big burly guy with coveralls is fussing opening up the rear doors. My roadside pole near the mailbox with a mercury light shows me this.
We’re about 45 minutes from the nearest Deputy Sheriff.
So, I grab my .45ACP and flashlight and mosey over.
I hale the guy from about 100 feet: “Howdy. Need any help this morning.”
The guy is surprised and answers: “Nope–just parking here on STATE LAND going to go in and deer hunt.”
I mentioned that the legal entrance to the state hunting lands are way down the road, although hunting lands touched mine.
“NO!” the guys shoots back. He says: “THIS HERE WHERE I’M PARKING IS STATE LAND!”
“Beg to differ,” I say and add: “Be glad to show you my deed’s metes and bounds description back at my place. I assure you, that BOTH sides of this county road are owned by me.”
The guy gets agitated and then tries “Round Two.” “Look”, he kind of meekly says: “You know, I’m handicapped. It’s easier for me to park here and just walk over to the state lands to hunt, right over yonder.”
“Funny that,” I say. “Don’t see any handicap decal on your windows or license plate. Plus, you look pretty healthy to me walking around a lot out here in the dark.”
THAT really touched him off. He explodes and yells:
“Why you greedy MF, all this land you have and all I want is a little piece to park on for just a day,” and starts grabbing something in his upper overalls.
My eyes are pretty good and I saw the gleam of stainless steel. I yanked up that pistol and aimed it square at his head and said real calmly: “Wanna dance?”
The guy very slowly pulled out a six inch bigbore SS Ruger wheelgun. I said again: “Wanna dance?” and did not move my aim from his forehead. He put the revolver back, called me every name in the book, back peddled into the driver’s door, seat, and sped off.
I was in a cold sweat, shaking, and looked at my pistol. I forgot to rack the slide when I went out there….hammer was still down.
It’s really sad that this young guy died in this incident. People cut themselves to feel physical pain as a relief for some emotional pain. The guy was desperate and figured suicide by cop was a quick way out. Cops didn’t have any choice and became Johnson’s victims.
It is sad. I have often remarked that we treat our mentally ill citizens worse today than they were treated in the 19th century. We have fewer beds in mental health institutions today than we had in 1888. That is by actual count xbeds in 1888 versus beds in 2020.
t doesn’t take a demographics PhD to recognize that we have considerably more folks living in the country today than we had in 1888. Which means that our folks today are served more poorly by mental health professionals than they were over 100 years ago.
Unless there is some kind of magic cure that has escaped the media, we don’t have any fewer mentally ill percentage wise or any other wise than we had in 1888. We just don’t spend as much public money on the problem as we did over 100 years ago.
I would be the first to admit that the treatment of the mentally ill in 1888 was barbaric by today’s standards but it still was the best the medical profession knew. Standard medical care was pretty barbaric in 1888 by today’s standards too.
Yes, you are so correct LCC. They’re all out there walking around in the local population, but it is the general public who is suffering and is in great danger when they find they have to deal with them. The stats don’t lie either. Subway pushings are up. Sidewalk slashings are up. Knife point robberies are up. This list of offenses against humanity goes on and on.
LCC your statement is correct but in 1888 there were not that many automatic weapons or weapons that could handle that many rounds. 100 years ago the term death by cop didnt happen all that much. I’m not saying it didnt happen just that it was not heard about like it is now. With the internet and everything being posted like it is today lots of people get ideas that they themselves would have never thought about. Just saying. I agree it was a good shoot. Your article was a good one. Kind of reminds me of the “Blue Bloods” episode where they tried to hang officer janko out to dry for a miss remember under fire. Then the person that was after her was sent to an officer training facility. After the excersize there were 5 questions one of them being how many rounds she fired. She said something like 6 – 8 and she had emptied her clip. No one knows what they will or are capable of until they are put into that situation. As was stated before to many armchair quarterbacks trying to make a point. Once again great article.
Excellent article, Chuck! Kudos!
One question I have though. Since the guy who was killed was a police cadet at the college, did any of the responding officers happen to know him? Or maybe heard anything about him from a mutual acquaintance?
The reason I ask is that this guy wasn’t just a guy on a toot, he had, as you pointed out in your article, quite a tolerance for alcohol. Police departments are notorious for gossip – cadet or not, if he was that much of a drinker at only 29, people were talking about it and it likely affected his performance on the job and in class.
I wonder what happened to trigger him…a bad performance review or disciplinary action? In which case, he might well have seen the uniforms and decided that they were the cause of his problems and decided to kill them.
We’ll probably never know for sure, but the responding officers took the only action they really could have to keep themselves, their co-workers and the civilians in the area safe. A sad situation.
Kitty: As reported by the DA’s investigation, the decedent had no prior contacts with law enforcement. Even if he had been issued a field identification contact slip, with the comprehensiveness of the report I think that would have been mentioned.
He had no moving violations that were reported. I too am surprised that he had managed to avoid contact with his apparent heavy drinking.
While he was a cadet, it was with the campus police at a junior college — excuuuuse me — community college. Campus police in this county started out as meter maids issuing parking citations. They have managed to bootstrap themselves into being full fledged safety members of the state retirement system. In my view that is the biggest waste of taxpayer dollars in a whole system of wasted tax money. They still basically are parking violation attendants. If there is any kind of disturbance on campus the local city cops are called in immediately. They don’t have the authority to investigate crime off campus. They should be back where they originated, riding bicycles around campus issuing parking violation notices.
With that background I doubt that there would be any “gossip” about a cadet among law enforcement circles. I don’t think other agencies would extend him “professional courtesy” if he were apprehended for DUI.
I think we will never know what set this young man on this self-destructive path. There was no talk of his grades at the junior college he was attending. Perhaps he was not doing well in school and felt he would not be able to realize his career path. We can speculate all day about various causes for his self-destructive actions but in the end, we just don’t have enough understand to clearly know what drives people to suicide by cop.
An interesting article for sure Chuck! Here in the big city, the powers that be, who now want to defund the police, want to send social workers out to respond to such calls. My thinking is that it would be best if they, ie, the powers that be, actually show up in person and handle the calls by themselves. Much more efficient solution for us taxpayers.
PS – Oh and by the way LCC – Congratulations! Most interesting article! Well done!
CC: I think they will have a hard time finding social workers who want to respond to situations like this. And with everything over within one minute, unless the social worker was a ride-along with the cops how long would it take him or her to respond to the scene? Unless the plan is to have unarmed social workers respond to every incident in the city without police training. Not going to get many applicants for that position either.
If they want cops to be trained psychologists, then that should be made a hiring requirement. However most public entities with a law enforcement department require police training for the job. The old requirement of hiring big guys who were handy with a night stick and a gun and not too much upstairs are generally long gone. The PDRK has state requirements for POST training which stands for Police Officer Standard Training (I think).
Obviously the more training required, the higher the entry level pay will have to be and the higher each succeeding rank will have to be paid. Police chiefs in many cities in the PDRK already are pulling down a quarter million dollars a year and more with 100% contribution to retirement schemes and retirement at age 50 with 20 years service.
Brand spanking new, just out of police academy police officers earn in excess of $50,000 a year and with overtime that easily jumps to $100,00 a year. Fortunately chiefs don’t get overtime pay otherwise they would be dragging down over a million a year.
Police and fire protection in our burg is the biggest chunk of the city budget just after trying to catch up the unfunded pension liability.
The state retirement system which all public entities are required by law to participate in for many years predicted returns on invested pension money in the range of returns only earned by drug lords and mifiosa. I haven’t seen their recent predictions, but I suspect they are still overly rosy by being in two figure returns when getting six percent is a struggle.
The pension fund, along with everybody else took a bath in the 2000 dot com bust and again in the derivatives market bust in 2008. Caused by chasing after unlikely returns. They can’t seem to get in their minds the old market adage, “The bigger the return the bigger the risk.”
So my rejoinder to the “defund the police” crowd is, “Good luck with that.”
We are going to see response times extended as more and more cops take retirement as soon as they are eligible and fewer and fewer applicants seek the job.
Why would any young man or woman seek a career in law enforcement in the present atmosphere surrounding that career?
I read that one of the defund the police cities which now has a severe shortage of personnel due to mass exodus is considering hiring police from surrounding cities. Which ignores the possibility that maybe the cop in the next city if happy where he is and doesn’t want to work under the conditions that exist there for any money.
LCC: Very well written and we all should save it for future reference. niio
Well done LCC. My niece is a psychologist at a private school in San Diego, she says dealing with teens jacked up on hormones is all the trouble she would ever want.
Most police shootings are justified, as this one certainly was, what bothers me about law enforcement is how easily they disregard the Bill Of Rights. I think the number one goal of their training should be to teach them their primary job is to defend the individual’s safety and Constitutional Rights. Hell yes you shoot drunk young men armed with knives who are having a psychotic breakdown, and any cop has an absolute right to use deadly force to defend their self from injury or death. They have an absolute right to go home safe at the end of day. But I’m reading about too many cases that had solutions other than deadly force or even detaining the suspect. A lot of lives could be saved if the standard for DWI was to take the idiot’s identification and send ’em home in a cab, punish later. Race doesn’t matter, the problem with the 3 cops killing that fool by kneeling on his back (a move just as deadly as shooting center mass) is that, for whatever reason, the officers decided he had no rights under The Constitution. Most Police organizations have become Paramilitary organizations, and that should bother us all.
And the deal about shoot ’em in the leg or fight somebody off with a baseball bat is just inexperience talking. Most people haven’t been in a fight since Middle School, and those weren’t real fights. It’s hard to hit a baseball swinging a baseball bat, and even harder to hit and disable an attacker swinging one. This video shows the proper technique, use an aluminum bat ( a wood bat will break) and sneak up behind your target who has no idea you’re there, bash ’em in the head and run away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4BP5gsMzck&list=PLEFsfRQkLNUzIRA-CS5k_s9UOGTOlrx5p&index=624
Here’s a good one of a guy built like Frank Thomas taking a cut at a smaller man. https://abc7ny.com/morrisania-bronx-bat-attack-suspect-arrested/5872627/
While on this juicy Thanksgiving topic (I cooked up a pot of home grown Heirloom pinto beans instead of a turkey, so good) of personal defense I realized another good alternative personal defense weapon is spa shock, the little bags of powdered chlorine you use to chlorinate spas and above ground pools. If 4 tough guys are about to attack you and you fling powdered chlorine in their ugly faces they will start to choke, sneeze, and cry and will go to their knees, it’s much more effective than pepper spray. DHS might arrest you for using a weapon of mass destruction. Just a little whiff when I’m flinging it across the surface of the pool makes me miserable, always forgetting to check the wind.
IvyMike: I assume you are talking about George Floyd, when you stated the police “killed” him with the knee on his neck. George Floyd was already dead before the police arrived. He had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his bloodstream.If he had not tried to pass a counterfeit twenty, the cops never would have been there, and within an hour or so…he would have been just another death by overdose.
Juggles: George Floyd begged the cop to let him breathe. Floyd was a liberal in a very liberal state killed by a liberal cop. Agreed he would have died anyway, but the case is this. Liberal killing liberal with no remorse, and they’d do the same to you. It’s greed for power.
NYPost did exposes on biden and other liberals.
Red: I reviewed the NY Post article. Taking it as gospel, I take a different view of it from you. Floyd is an experienced con. This isn’t his first rodeo. He has prior felony convictions. He is using every trick he has been taught to wiggle out of what he knows even in his inebriated state, is going to be a serious charge and may involve prison time. “Don’t shoot me” He hasn’t complied with the officer’s commands and the officer has drawn his weapon. Floyd realizes he is now walking on thin ice. He doesn’t want to comply. He wants to take his booze bought with a crudely counterfeited bill back to his pad and drink himself to death.
He struggles with the cop going to the car again using excuses he has learned in prison, “I’m claustrophobic.” I’m pretty darned sure that term isn’t in Floyd’s every day vocabulary. It is a term he has picked up from other cons. He was sitting in a car when approached by the cops. He is going to be sitting in a car again. Yeah, I am claustrophobic about sitting handcuffed in the back of a patrol car too. I am not sure that claustrophobic is the correct medical term to use. In the street we call it “scared s_ _ _ _ ess.” I am sure there is a psychological term that more accurately expresses the sensation we are all feeling at that point than claustrophobic, but Floyd isn’t a psychologist, although as a con, he has learned street psychology and uses it frequently to scrape by in situations where he is breaking the law. He probably used what he thought was successful street smarts to pass the phony money in the liquor store.
The cops learn it too. They use street smarts in their interactions with criminals. The criminals use it in their interactions with the cops.
Let me give you an example. You get pulled over for a traffic violation. The very first question the cop asks you is, “Do you know why I pulled you over?
The reason for that question is to get you to admit to a violation that the officer isn’t even aware of. Or if you just admit to what he really pulled you over for then he has a confession that he can use in court in the rare instance that you decide to go to trial on the ticket.
Unless you can read the cop’s mind, your answer should be “No, I don’t.” You may suspect you know the reason, but you don’t know for certain why he pulled you over. Maybe your brake light is out and he is going to give you an equipment violation ticket. Maybe he wanted to ask you where you got the window tint done because he is thinking of getting the same for his new car.
Mind games. Street smarts. The initial question is the first thing taught when an officer attends traffic control classes. Every cop uses it. The only time they don’t use it is when they make a felony stop with guns drawn.
As with this website for folks who are interested in picking up information about how to survive what we feel is an inevitable situation, cons spend a lot of time incarcerated exchanging tips with each other in how to react to different situations, how to break into specific buildings, how to bluff a victim into doing what you want. “Just do as I tell you and you won’t get hurt.” but then kill the vic so he can’t identify you in court.
While the NY Post is a “conservative” media source, they still have the typical attitude that is so prevalent in the media today, that everything the cops do is wrong. I agree. There is a lot that the cops do that is wrong. There is also a lot that they do that is right.
But as so recently demonstrated across the country they are what stands between us and chaos. The thin blue line to use a trite phrase.
Could the cops have played dodge ’em with the individual the subject of this long discussion, until he toppled over from all the alcohol he had consumed. We can play armchair quarterbacking all day and I would say, considering everything, yes, they could have played dodge ’em all day with this individual until he became comatose. But that’s not what we hired them to do. We hired them to apprehend criminals. For starters, this individual was a danger on the road. That is self evident in that he crashed less than a mile from where he started out. You saw the pictures, that isn’t some sharp S curve in the road. It is a very gentle curve and he still managed to run off the road and do property damage. Then he is cutting himself. While I think you should be allowed to commit suicide if that is your choice, that’s not the way the law is written. It is a crime to attempt to kill yourself although I have never seen someone prosecuted for it. The presumption automatically is that you are mentally ill and incapable of forming the necessary intent to commit the crime. Yes, I know. It doesn’t compute, but no one has ever said laws must be intelligent to get passed by a legislative body. Then he advances on the cops with, to all appearances, the intent to use it on them.
Well, at this point, their job description requires them to stop the attempt, not to play dodge ’em with him until he falls over.
Same thing with Floyd. The cop knelt on his neck to control him until he was subdued enough that they could put him in the car without injury to the cops. Hurray for clear thinking. As a taxpayer, if the choice is to kneel on a perp’s neck because it appears that he is going to struggle getting put in the patrol car and possibly injure one of my employees (public servant type) then I am all for kneeling on the perp’s neck until he is convinced the only way out is to peaceably get in the patrol car. I don’t want to pick up the cost of a worker’s comp case because of an injured cop. A couple of those cops were young. A back injury caused by wrestling with a large, highly intoxicated (feeling no paid due to intoxication, remember/) male is a good potential source of permanent injury for one or more of those cops and then the cop is stuck with a lifetime of pain and the taxpayers are stuck with paying his disability benefits for the rest of his life.
I know. I am cold hearted and without compassion. I say, kneel on his neck until rigor starts to set in. Who is responsible for him being in that state, anyway? It is Floyd himself. If his conduct results in his death, it is on him, not the cops, not me nor society. He chose his course of conduct. He is the one living on the edge of criminality. He is the one driving drunk, passing counterfeit money, resisting arrest with all the wile he can muster. He is the one who has been there before. He knows very well what he is doing. His judgment is impaired because of all the drugs and alcohol he has consumed but who did that to him? He is the one RESPONSIBLE as Central Coast Pirate so eloquently postulated.
Enough. I will pick up my soap box and go do the breakfast dishes.
“feeling no pain.” Sometimes I really get a hate on for predictive. Predictive just did it again, changed pain too paid. Only this time I was watching for it.
LCC: Oh, no, not disagreeing with you, but what the lib cop did was cruel and unusual. Floyd was helpless. He was out of it and dying. Never expect compassion from people like him or the cops. Police reflect the ones who cut the check. My major beef is just that. Have reptilian government, you get reptilian cops. I was raised in PA, too, and it was worse in many ways in my day. That’s why the dude from Scranton, Frein, shot that Dickson’s dick off. The cop was raping his sister using the treat of putting her husband away. Why do you think they didn’t dump him on the electric chair? No, and wolf even issued a stay on all executions in the state.
NY Post is more moderate than conservative, but they do love to publish ‘corrections’ of lies printed by NYT.
Floyd should have gone to jail, not to what ever corner of hell he landed in. The cop is guilty and where is he? The dnc is very handy at, if you need a body, they’ll get one. Please specify race, sex, age. Dad was a ward boss for years, before Dan Flood was destroyed by lies. I know enough about them, have enough scars from them, to read minds. 3rd world politicians trying to drag us down to their level. And much thanks for that soap box. You’re good on it! niio
Red – In this case, the officers were following official protocols in the NYPD Training Manual which was approved by the City. It’s the politicians who are guilty here. Not the officers responding to a call to serve and protect the public and who also want to go home at night. On the other hand, here in the big city, thugs look to play the system to get big paychecks from the city! They feel they have nothing to lose and its as a way to fill the family coffers. Sad situation, but true. Nothing to lose! All to gain! With free representation, big money made in suing the city!
CC: LCC’s Anatomy was great. I cannot disagree with it and saved a copy. But, if you mean Floyd, no. What I said about 3rd world politics and the police is on the money, and I can’t blame the cops for it. Where is Chauvin? Prison, where it’s safer than the streets. I think he goofed, but don’t think it was on purpose. He was showing off, perhaps. Both of us know BLM and antifa were looking for a victim to use so they could riot. they threatened over a year ago to disrupt the election in any way they could. niio
Red – Who would want to be a cop today? And it Doesn’t matter where these days to be treated the way they are being treated, and then having the force crippled with budget cuts which effect their ability to do their job. The NYPD Union Head recently announced that we’re on our own on the streets of New York City. That sent shivers through our spine! A real wake up call!
CC: cop is generational. Because too many places will not hire ex-MPs, you’ll have problems. Applications have declined 5 years in a row now. It’s not their fault politicians have their lips firmly attacked to the buttocks of people like soros and the kenndy klan. Hollywood loves blood because blood sells. Bad cops and rebels are major attractions because people are taught to think like that. Some bad is true, tho. I lived in a few places that should be rated 3rd world for crooked cops like Penna and Mexico. For the most part, nope. It’ll come around. Poe’s pendulum cuts both ways. Let not your heart be troubled. We’re at war and always have been. niio
Mike: It is not just the police who ignore our constitutional rights. It is my opinion for whatever that is worth, that all the promulgations and proclamations emanating from political “leaders” during this manufactured crisis are indicative of a casual disregard of our Constitution that is endemic among politicians and bureaucrats everywhere.
I believe it mostly started with prohibition. At least that was a constitutional amendment ratified in accordance with our Constitution, however ill advised.
Then we had laws passed by Congress prohibiting the use of substances that had been in general use for as long as they had been discovered or invented and humanity somehow managed to stagger on. More and more substances were added and the states jumped on the bandwagon.
Where in the Constitution is there provision for banning naturally occurring substances from being utilized by the citizens of this country?
Please don’t misconstrue my comments. I have never even “just tried but didn’t inhale”. When I have been compelled to take pain relieving narcotics I really hated the effect they had on me.
That said, I strongly believe that many of the ills of our present day society and many of the really bad, unconstitutional rulings by the Supremes are as a result of the prohibition against the private use of perception altering substances.
I don’t want pilots flying airplanes while doped up. I don’t want surgeons operating on me while doped up. I don’t want truckers driving 80,000 pounds down the road at 70 mph while doped up. I don’t want you, IM, driving down the road while doped up. Anything that involves possible public safety should be illegal to perform while under the influence and the crime should be to remove the source of danger. If you are a doctor, you lose your license to practice until you have satisfactorily completed a comprehensive drug avoidance program. I you are a pilot, no flying without a plane any more until you do the same.
The one exception I would make is with alcohol and driving a passenger vehicle. I would revoke the driver’s license until performing the same rehab program and I would also remove the state issued license plate from the vehicle. You can store it at home or in a commercial yard but you can’t have the automobile license plate back until you have completed the program. The reason for that is because the driver has control over the vehicle and is able to operate it without supervision at will. A pilot, unless he is flying a privately owned plane from an uncontrolled airport needs permission from the company owning the plane in order to fly it and at a controlled airport needs clearance from the tower to take off. A surgeon unless he is performing surgery in his private office needs hospital permission to operate or have admission privileges. Those actions are controlled by a third party. Driving a privately owned automobile is under the control of the person who violated public safety. Don’t take away the car, that is confiscating private property. BUT, the license plate belongs to the state and it is within the power of the state to recall the use of their property.
Aha, but the driver can borrow the license plate from another car and switch it to his license-less car. Therein lies the rub. If apprehended by law enforcement with a different license plate, that car may not be driven ever again in its lifetime on the highways of the state in which it was registered. If the driver is driving just another car with the registration plates assigned to it, then that car is impounded with the costs of impoundment assigned against the car until the driver completes his court ordered treatment program.
Oh, but what will the poor family do with the car not available to them? Central Coast Pirate put it squarely where it belongs: Responsibility. The driver is the one responsible for his family’s predicament. They will walk, ride a bicycle, take public transportation, call Uber whatever folks did before automobiles were so ubiquitous. All the while they can rag on the driver who is RESPONSIBLE for their predicament.
Well, so much for preaching today. I do agree with you, Mike, many police officers do disregard our constitutional rights. However, they are only reflecting the absolute disregard that their bosses, the politicians have for the Constitution. They just happen to be at the intimate point of the spear between officialdom and the citizenry. George III was safely in London. It was his troops carrying out his policies that were getting shot and killed. It is the cops who are carrying out Gabby Nuisance’s illegal edicts at the pointy end of the stick while he is safely dining at The French Laundry with his cronies.
I might add that the French Laundry for folks who don’t know, is a very exclusive diner in Napa. You just don’t call up and make a reservation. You make inquiry when the next available date is for reservations and if you are just Joe Nobody, it probably is sometime in 2032. If you ask how much dinner is, that means you are probably picking up the tab for the meal, not the taxpayer, and you can’t afford to eat there. The use of the sobriquet “diner” was deliberate and not ill chosen.
LCC – For those of you tucked into the country side, know that for many years here in the big city anchor babies, refugees, mass immigration, have been encouraged to gain footholds, and if they can, pursue careers in civil service and in particular the judicial system. The goal being not to serve, but to change the system. The ideology and values many bring to the table are shaded with socialist Marist ideas brought from the old country. If you look closely at the way current events are unfolding, you will realize it did not just happen over night. It is a well thought out plan to break down our system and use our values against us. Once the cities fall, the rest is history!
CC: I have know it for over 40 years. One of the reasons why I quit working in court. I couldn’t stand what was happening and decided, knowing individually I couldn’t change the system, I didn’t want to be a part of continuing it.
CC: the years pass but country remains country. WWII, guns were outlawed in the USSR, but they had good snipers because country people do not just throw away things. Mexico, they’re getting arms asap, and people know how to use a gun because A) the law is, all 16 year old boys have to obey the draft and B) Old guns worn out, not serviceable can still be used to practice with. President Obrador is ignoring what’s going on because the people are the only real defence against narco terrorism. Excuse me, I’m a little off yet 🙂 Long and short of it, governments come and go, but country lives on. We survive because we always have. niio
Before I say i agree with you that the fault lies with our politicians rather than with the police, I’d like people to know that if someone restrains your hands behind you, lays you face down, then puts there knee in the middle of your back and applies a few pounds of pressure you will be dead within 7 minutes. Don’t matter if you’re healthy athletic and sober or you are a stoned scum bag like George Floyd you have been murdered. The worst crime against The constitution a public official can
commit is to murder a Citizen, don’t matter if it’s a worthless dirt bag of a citizen or one of Trump’s golden children. But the fault is not the police, it is our fault because that is what we want from them, that is how they are trained. Prohibition and the war on drugs are one source of the problem, maybe it started with Secession and Lincoln having no other choice than to assert that the Federal Government has dominion over the States. Boy, then the Feds found out how much control they could gain by perverting the Interstate Commerce Clause and the chains have been tightening on us ever since. And it ain’t red chains or blue chains, chains is chains.
OMG, I saw your boy Governor at the French Laundry when Fox 1st aired it.
“The French Laundry costs $350 per person to dine and there are two set menus, the Chef’s Tasting (meat and seafood) and the Tasting of Vegetables. It’s 9 courses, not including the opening “appetizers”, aka Amuse Bouche.”
There are some incredibly ignorant Republican politicians out there but I’ll be durned if the Democrats aren’t leading that category by a mile or two. Shifty Schiff, Nads Nadler, Pelosi, Newsome, good lord, we are lost…
Mike: The $350 doesn’t include the overpriced wine either and if you are dining at the French Laundry, you just have to have a bottle or two of their “hand selected” wine list.
“Hand selected” means they can double the normally outrageous prices other restaurants charge.
LCC – If you have anything whatsoever, anything that includes your being impaired in any way by alcohol or drugs on your driver’s license, you have no airline career.
many deer hunters will admit to “buck fever” many more will not either way its common for both to miss a deer at gimmie range also common is somebody swearing they fired all the rounds in their rifle and cant figure out how they missed only to find all those unfired rounds having been cycled through the action with a trigger pull
Good article and an important read. One thing that I know is thought about by some of us, but hasn’t been mentioned. Media, and moreover, it’s effect on the uninformed populace.
Time and time again, the “popular” and acceptable (if you wanna be IN with everybody else) mode of thinking is to blame someone or, more often, an entity or faction for responsibility of the scenario. “The poor under represented, under privileged mother; the son that was traumatized due to his father being in the military. Oh….we failed them. We should have seen it coming and gave them a new pillow!” Oh….please!
Now, say it with me……RESPONSIBILITY. Let’s turn that around to where it really should point. To the perp, or his snowflake mommy! I don’t give a rat’s you-know-what if this guy was a model student (he wasn’t), a model citizen (not really) or dear grandma’s favorite grandson. He made a choice, and it did him in. No matter the reason and all the logistics about mental state and what “society has done to him”. WE are RESPONSIBLE for our own actions. Haven’t we all had fits of rage and/or major depression? Did we create huge costs to tax payers and society because of our problems. Most of us would answer that in the negative. We accepted responsibility.
What is needed (in this dimwit’s mind) is for those of us that feel “responsibility” is a real thing that we should all adhere to, to then start showing it. If the media was told; if the nannys and snowflakes were told, if the extreme liberal attorney that just wants to make a buck with the popular liberal / social trend were told, simply, that we’ve had enough of this Nanny State crap. We believe people should accept responsibility for their life and their actions, especially to or against others. Well, then maybe, just MAYBE, we’d see a turn begin to happen. Maybe we’d see a time where the media would be saying that it was an open and shut case. The perp broke the law, and paid the ultimate price. The young woman threw her young toddler off the bridge and is now serving a life sentence, instead of the, “Oh, let’s help these poor under privileged individuals, with special pronouns!”
I’m done. Thanks for the time to TRY to express my thoughts.
Look closely at who the individuals involved in these instances, and you will find that for the most part they did not do anything themselves to defuse the situation once the cops came on the scene. All they had to do was stop what they were doing, drop the weapon and follow the instructions of the officers who responded. That said, they could have availed themselves of the social justice they sought from their court ordered criminal defense attorney. Parents and schools protect their children when they teach them to respect the law. This is not happening in the inner city. It is unfortunately a babe of honor to do else wise. It is a sorrowful situation, but I have no sympathies to extend to those in situations such as this who unfortunately do not respect law enforcement and suffer the consequences.
CC: One is never going to win a fight with the cops on the street. They have too many resources at their disposal for an individual to win in a fight on the street. You may actually get to take out a cop or two but eventually you are going down. The only place to win with the cops, perhaps, is in the courtroom with a lawyer as your enforcer.
I used to work with a deputy who told me his reply to the individual who said, “You ain’t man enough to take me in.” was, “You’re probably right. However, I have at my disposal the rest of the 185 deputy sheriffs who are on duty at this moment, plus the on-duty police officers of the adjacent cities and even the CHP officers on duty, close to 300 officers. If you will tell me how many of us it will take to bring you in tonight, I will request that many show up and they will be here quickly. We can move this along if you give me the number I need, but however many it takes, you are going to jail tonight.”
He said after a moment’s thought the subject usually uttered some expletive and turned around for him to put the cuffs on.
He also said it didn’t always work but he felt it had saved him getting his uniform ripped and him bruised up on many occasions.
It is true. Fighting on the street with law enforcement is a losing game and you may wind up losing your life. I think there may be some kind of urban legend going around that with the settlement from whatever political entity is involved the remaining family will be set for life. There is a great tendency among public entities based on lazy attorney advice that it is cheaper to settle than it is to fight the case down to the last appeal. That may be true for one instant case but I believe it sets a trend that results in more lawsuits and thus actually increases the cost to the taxpayer as most cities are self-insured to some upper limit and only have excess coverage. It may be that the excess coverage carrier urges settlement if the amount of the settlement is covered by the city’s self-insurance and it is in the best interests of the excess carrier to urge settlement below that limit. It would take a clued-in grand jury investigation to reveal if that is the case and it probably is buried so deeply the grand jury would need more than a single year to scrape away all the muck hiding what is going on. I believe cities would be better served vigorously defending such lawsuits through the appeal process.
It appears that the police did every thing right. I don’t know why they shot at his legs, they are a small, moving target. ALWAYS shoot center mass.
For civilians: 1.) if at all possible, get away from the threat, and call 911; 2.) hide if ti can be safely done, and call 911; or 3.) shoot at center mass until the threat is down, only as a last resort. Call 911 immediately and ask for an ambulance and the police in that order.
When the police ask to interview you, tell them that you will meet them at the PD the next day with your lawyer.
Mr. Jack: I have zero experience shooting bean bags from a bean bag modified shotgun. I would suspect that perhaps you have the same level of experience.
The report which I didn’t include because I thought it irrelevant, states the shotguns were specially modified for bean bags.
I suspect that the officers have had a “familiarization” course on the bean bag shotguns shooting bean bags. That usually is how to load it; any special features not on a regular shotgun, five or ten shots and it’s “Okay, you’re good to go.”
It may well be that the officer who shot the legs was aiming at the torso and that’s where the bags hit. Maybe he was shooting at the legs because the guy had a jacket on and he thought he would get better impact against a single layer of cloth as opposed to multiple layers of cloth.
Considering how fast this all evolved, I think any criticism of anything the officers did is unjustified. I wish I felt that under a similar set of circumstances I would conduct myself with the finesse and aplomb that these officers exhibited under a fast moving, highly stressful situation.
I suspect over two years later they may still have an occasional restless night.
Hey! I know that LCC. I’m not going to be in a situation where I’m going to look to win a fight with the cops on the street. I’m talking about the cops not being able to be in a position to lower the crime stats! Granted they will close ranks and come down hard on anyone who attacks them, but what about if it happens to me? Fewer cops on the street. Slower response times. Perps released without bail. Lenient judges. Slow walked investigations due to massive retirements. So call political Social justice changes in policing with orders to stand down while businesses are being destroyed and people are being harmed. Where are the cops? Where are the Feds?
On a totally different topic: We are experiencing the largest solar flare in 3 years today. There is an M4.4 coronal mass ejection interfering with radio waves in an circle covering the east coast of South America; the west coast of Africa and to a lesser degree other parts of the Atlantic Ocean; and the east coast of the U.S.; major parts of Europe. Not a good day to be flying trans-Atlantic.
Go to spaceweather.com to see the impact area of the CME.
According to the folks who watch such things, we are entering into a new period of increased solar activity.
LCC – Let’s all pray together that that situation over the Atlantic disparates quickly as the Trump trans-Atlantic Vaccine Airlift BRU – KORD is on! May God Speed!
Well done Chuck…lots of info folks don’t get when a story like this is reported by the lying liberal msm.
I’m not now, never have been nor will I ever be an LEO.
I know somebody has to do it…I’m just glad it won’t be me. IMHO one of the toughest jobs there is.
I totally agree with some of the commenters…#1 to avoid a situation like this, don’t break the law…#2 if you are ever detained by an LEO, comply, follow their instructions.
I would add one bit of advice I’ve been given…if you’re ever involved in a situation that you have to shoot someone, when it’s over and you call 911, tell them to send 2 ambulances, one for the person that you shot and one for yourself because more than likely you will be in shock and need medical help too.
Chuck, I’m asking for your opinion…you talked a little about home defense rounds one being 223/5.56…I have friends who believe this is the best home defense round mainly because in our state high capacity magazines are legal. I agree some what. I believe a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot would be a good close quarters home defense round and weapon.
Your thoughts please.
Excellent write up! Read the real story of the OK corral also, all over in 90 seconds. Personal defense is the 21 feet or 7 yards range as mentioned by LCC. This is why the .410 bore handguns are becoming popular even with the “expert shooter” backlash against them. Qty 5 – 000 buck per trigger pull (Fed Prem 3″ 000 Buck) at 21 feet is a tight pattern (5″), does true stopping damage to the criminal and has limited over penetration issues unlike “hot loads” for other pistols.
Side note – I laugh when a “YouTube” expert claims a “hot load 38″ which makes a straw like hole through 24” of ballistic gel is a criminal stopping shot, That may stop a criminal in five or ten minutes when they bleed out but I do not want to be fighting for my life for that length of time. Even in the story above it was eight projectiles that did enough damage to stop the individual.
This was not a ‘perpetrator’ on the ground, it was an accident victim. I know police officers who could easily have de-escalated the troubled young man instead of pointing guns at him and issuing commands. Don’t make it a pissing contest. The young man was harming himself, not others. Come along side him, so to speak, make the issue with the accident victim about helping him survive the accident, calling the ambulance if necessary, make him know your concern is about his well being, etc. and maybe the kid will forget he’s holding a knife. The kid was probably distraught because he realized a DUI would negatively affect his career as a police officer. He could have been relatively reasoned with. I know a deputy sheriff who can talk to people like a person, not like an officer UNTIL it is necessary to be the officer. It works. Shooting him was ‘justified’ but many other things could have been done differently before it got to the point of the young man on his feet with a knife in his hands headed toward officers. It’s not all about power and force. It’s about finesse. I know officers who have it. You can either threaten a wounded dog or you can comfort him. Which one will likely get you farther? That question answers itself. And this case is no different. Same situation, same answer. So sad.