How To Deal With Neighbors And Friends That Come Begging For Food At Your Door In A Crisis

James Walton
By James Walton October 5, 2020 07:31

How To Deal With Neighbors And Friends That Come Begging For Food At Your Door In A Crisis

The late afternoon light is shining through your window and the scene outside is quiet, just the way you like it. You are about a month into a serious collapse and thus far your preps have held up. Power has been out for 2 weeks; you don’t plan on ever having power again. You prepared for that.

As the sun sinks closer to the horizon you hear one of the most terrifying sounds of all: A knock on the door!

Your family finds their places and weapons, you leave from the backdoor and flank whoever might be on your porch. To your surprise it is your cousin! You haven’t seen him in years, but he is here. He looks rough and he has his disheveled family of three along with him.  He also doesn’t seem to have any food or supplies with him.

This is one of the prepper scenarios we all have thought about. However, it might not be as bad as you think!

People Are Power

So, what do you do when someone unexpected comes knocking? Now, that is an interesting word to use in conjunction with preppers. UNEXPECTED. The whole point of prepping is to consider the unexpected.

In a true SHTF situation people bring you power. Your community should be like a hive. Hardly worth the trouble of any small group that might wish to steal or worse. You must be able to sustain them or have them sustain themselves but there will be tremendous power in numbers. Big jobs become easier, you can make an area more secure with more people, and you have more brains to put towards a problem.

Of course, its not heaven. With people come people issues like fights, jealousy, and the like. However, good leadership and preparedness can give you the upper hand on things like that.

You must first make an honest list of “survival dependents” or people who will come to depend on you when everything goes to hell!

Trust me, your list is bigger than you think.How to Deal with Neighbors and Friends Who Come Begging for Food at Your Door in a Crisis

Survival Dependents

While it is nice to imagine that the calamity will never cross your threshold, the reality is that many more people depend on you than you think. Chances are, even if people don’t know you’re a prepper, you are the type of person who has it together. You are likely the person people go to for answers.

No matter how strong your OPSEC protocols are if you are a good and solid person, than people will look to you in times of crisis. These might be people you love or just people you know.

Now is the time to sit down and create a real list. You must take off the blinders and truly consider all the people who will depend on you in an SHTF situation. It would be perfect if your list consisted of 4 people but when you break it down you have groups of people to consider.

  • Immediate Family
  • Extended Family
  • Friends
  • Co Workers

Your group of survival dependents could include people from each of these categories. How they depend on you may vary but this list will help you understand that there are more people than just your immediate family who will turn to you in times of calamity.How to Deal with Neighbors and Friends Who Come Begging for Food at Your Door in a Crisis

Can You Support People?

Of course, the question that comes to mind after you create a list like this is: Do I have enough?

For most people, the answer is no. It can be over burdensome to assume that you can prep for all the people who might be on your list of survival dependents. When these people show up asking for food, though, you need to have something!

Unless you subscribe to the idea that you are going to turn everyone away who comes to your door. If that is your game plan than you better also prepare for some serious backlash. How many fathers with kids can you turn away before one of them says, “No, we are coming in.”

What happens next cannot be good, with lots of harmful outcomes.

This doesn’t mean you should be a pushover and let any old person into your home and feed them.

Tip: When people approach you to ask for something, if they come to your door or see you outside, simply ask them for something first! Open the door and ask for food and medicine: “Oh, I hope you brought some food, we haven’t eaten in a week!”How to Deal with Neighbors and Friends Who Come Begging for Food at Your Door in a Crisis

Put Them to Work Immediately

From that list of survival dependents, you will likely choose people who you will bring into the fold. However, don’t let them in free of charge. The best way to handle someone who comes asking for help is to immediately give them some form of work to be done.

This is also a great gauge of the depth of that person. Those who are outraged by the work that needs to be done at “their new home” are people that you can easily weed out. Just make it truly clear up front that there is plenty to do and if they cannot do what is asked, they cannot stay.

By the way, there will be plenty to do! If you manage a household of four and all the sudden it jumps to ten you will have lots of extra work. It is not so much about room but about dishes, laundry, food production, security detail in the neighborhood, general cleaning.

In an off-grid situation, it might be about things like water procurement and sanitizing, renewable energy system maintenance, gardening, canning and everything in between.

There will be a serious list of chores to be done and the last thing you want is a house full of freeloaders laying around all day while you are red in the face.

Using a basic Excel spreadsheet, you will be able to create chore lists TODAY for issues that might come tomorrow. Print a stack of them and save them. They can be filled out by hand when the time comes or if you know the system you could print them with the duties listed.How to Deal with Neighbors and Friends Who Come Begging for Food at Your Door in a Crisis

It’s high time we stop looking at neighbors and friends as threats in the downfall. Many people can see something resembling collapse just on the horizon. Its hard not to look around and wonder how the unprepared will react to a future of scarcity, uncertainty, with up close and personal violence.

If America is facing balkanization or civil war it will be particularly important that you have a secure neighborhood with plenty of able-bodied individuals. Many neighbors will leave for a safer environment and you must be aware of that. However, that might free up homes and living areas for more of your survival dependents.

Your survival dependents are not the burden you once thought. Believe me. While you know the flaws of the people around you, they have two ears, two eyes and a heart that wants to survive. If you can find it in you to lead these people they will provide you with a true survival group that will keep you and yours from being acted upon by anyone with a group larger and better trained than you and your spouse!

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James Walton
By James Walton October 5, 2020 07:31
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179 Comments

  1. Prodefense October 5, 15:34

    The old tradition of taking cookies to the neighbors at Christmas can open the door to relationships and allow you to gauge your neighbors thoughts, preps, intentions, and training plus it’s neighborly! The collapse is too late to know how the others are prepared or how they might act.

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    • City Chick October 6, 14:42

      My mother and grandmother use to bake hundreds of cookies for the Christmas season. And I mean hundreds! Once the oven went on for Thanksgiving it didn’t get turned off till January 10th! All Fall after school we had to crack nuts! No one came to the house and left without a cache of cookies! Today, you wouldn’t eat anything given to you that was not commercially prepared in a sealed package unless it was from family.

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      • left coast chuck October 6, 23:20

        CC: Isn’t that a shame? I think actually the divide is greater in urban and suburban areas than it is in very small communities and rural areas. Passing through very small towns on bicycle rides, I found the people in very small towns far more open than people in larger towns.

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        • City Chick October 7, 02:29

          LCC – Here in the big city, it all breaks down to small neighborhoods. The problem is manipulating government policies which have forced a churn in the local population. They need to leave so that they then can bring in waves of foreign populations to create their warped idea of a perfect world! Here in Queens, the public schools have said there are 186 languages spoken at home. I was born and raised here, as were five generations of my family and yet people will stop me and ask me where I come from. Their master plan leaves much to be desired!

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      • Miss Kitty October 18, 01:29

        I’m sorry to hear that you’re sick. I have a course of treatment that might help. It helped me when I got sick back in February – I don’t know if it was Covid or just the flu, but I got through it pretty quickly.
        First, get some tonic water and drink as much as you can stand. Tonic water has quinine in it, which is good for all sorts of infections and fevers. Obviously, if you are allergic to it, don’t take it. Grapefruit also contains quinine. Many medications contraindicate taking with grapefruit, so check your medication for interactions.
        Take Vitamin D, 6000 to 10000ius every day for two weeks. Take 50-100mg zinc daily and vitamin c 1000-3000 my daily. Take all with food that contains some fat – if you’re nauseous, buttered toast or cooked rice with a little butter and salt may be best tolerated. Ginger in any form helps with nausea.
        Get lots of sleep – take melatonin 10 mg but be aware that it can elevate blood pressure.
        I’m not a doctor, but this combination helped me with whatever I had and I was over it in less than a week. I have type two diabetes, asthma and I’m overweight – the deadly three for covid complications. I’m still alive and feel pretty good.
        Hope this helps…God bless you and your family.

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        • red October 18, 13:19

          Miz Kitty: When advising like that, say this is what works for me and others I know of. Great-grandfather would tell people that, and he had decades as an herbalist.
          My problem, chica, is allergies and allergy meds. I’ve been poorly since the operation, but a whole lot better in most ways. Right now, we’re getting smoke from the Kali fires and that hurts. Good thing it’s trees burning and not liberal politicians. the stench of roasting cockroaches is disgusting. Of course, 3 Nov is coming and many they all get burned! 🙂 be blessed. niio

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        • Miss Kitty October 18, 14:35

          The dosage of melatonin I mentioned should have read 3-5 mg. Sorry for the typo🙁.

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          • red October 19, 23:54

            Miz Kitty! OK, “what I use” or “have been told”, please. there are a few who lurk here hoping to make trouble.
            Yeah, the VA has me on it. I think, but don’t know, ten is considered a no-no. After that nutty movie came out about the Kali-fornian who changed his skin color with it, a lot of kids got sick trying for a good tan. Any chemical is suspect. niio

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      • red October 18, 01:31

        catman: what children? and, the old-timers liked the outhouse for certain disposals.

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        • Oracle October 18, 14:29

          Red, unrelated, but why do some of the comments on here not have reply buttons? I tried to reply to your comment on the Tarahumara, but there is no reply button available. Brum

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          • red October 19, 23:50

            Oracle: thank you for reminding us to hit the reply to comment! that’s likely the most common reason, but no computer program is prefect because they’re constructed by humans. Again, welcome home. From the comments, I’d say we’re all glad to have you. niio

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            • Oracle October 20, 14:13

              Red, you all are not nearly as glad to have me here as I am to have found you. As a survivalist one can become ostracized by the general public, and even by some friends. It’s comforting to be among kindred spirits. Plus this know-it-all is learning from your shared experiences.

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              • red October 20, 23:42

                Oracle: Much thanks, but a know it all you’re not. We’re all on a learning curve and thanks to Claude for this site where we can ‘family’. I doubt I’ll make it thru SHTF, but if something eats me, I want to give it massive indigestion. It’s the American way 🙂 niio

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                • Oracle October 21, 11:16

                  You’ll make it, if you don’t the rest of the world is surely doomed. Your indigestion quote reminds me wot the T-shirt my son gave me … it reads “Be Hard To Kill”.
                  I’m working on that.

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      • Possum October 19, 22:55

        PARASITE CLEANSES. DO THEM. THEY WORK. Get the book, The Cure For All Diseases’, by Dr. Hulda Clark. If you can’t find that one, try The Cure For All Cancers’, by the same Dr. I have both, and have been listening to her advice since 1996. Fresh air, get rid of the electric gadgets, moth balls, chemicals, and most hand sanitizers are toxic–don’t use them. And if you drink soda, STOP right now—it is nothing but cancer in a can. Good luck.

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    • Susie Harrison October 10, 01:30

      I do that all year round… I’m able to chat a bit and find out who has weapons, who doesn’t, who might need help, if we can, who might be a problem.

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      • red October 10, 06:58

        Susie: Best spies are kids. ASAP they learn all the gossip and sitting down to coffee and cookies makes them chatty. Teenage boys can be the worse for gossip. Next best source of information, senior centers. Volunteers helping there are always valued entertainment. All that’s left is sorting out gossip from the information, but you need to do that while watching the news media, anyway. niio

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        • City Chick October 18, 17:22

          Red – Yes! Most times You don’t even have to ask them! They are just to happy let you know what’s up and sometimes they even manage exaggerate a little in the process! Remember, Anything that happens at home goes to school with them!

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          • red October 20, 01:38

            CC: I raised 13 kids, some of them mine, some ‘adopted’ into the family. Little pitchers have big ears. And, remember the grain of salt. I cannot say how many times I heard a kid say, “But everybody is (or has).” I got busted once, myself, using that line 🙂 Had I used it a second time Mom would have packed a bag of clothes, and dad offered to drive me down to live with the parents where “everybody is”. niio

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  2. Lisa October 5, 16:06

    In my opinion, if they won’t or are too dumb to prepare on their own, that’s their own damn fault. I don’t tell people that I preserve or have a stash. Its not their business.

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    • Janeth October 5, 18:12

      I wholeheartedly agree with you, Lisa! Thank you.

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      • Between Three Centuries October 6, 23:23

        There are bins of soya beans, corn and wheat. No one needs to go hungry. And if they are really starving they won’t turn their nose up at it. Have copies of improvised grain grinding equipment and cooking methods from the Nuclear War Survival Skills manual along with instruction on how to make tofu, soy meal, soy milk and soy flour. With corn meal and wheat flour they can have corn bread and protein. They can make hominy out of the corn too. The only thing you might have to give them is some Epsom salts to make the tofu. That will get through a winter and prove that they a smart enough to listen and learn. If they want more by Spring, you can teach them how to find some wild greens until they can prepare a garden. If they don’t want to work and survive but would rather beg or steal, fuck em. Let them either starve to death or be shot. The ones that survive can in the spring plant potato’s, tomato’s, pole beans, peppers, cucumbers, yams and onions as a basic beginners garden so they can learn to save seeds. They can dry some foods like potato’s, peppers, onions, and tomato’s. and can use regular jars with twist off lids salvaged from trash to can tomato’s and beans in tomato juice to raise the acid level. These can be water bath prepared. Cucumbers can be pickled with just salt and water bath prepared. This will give people a basic diet for several years.

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        • Oracle October 10, 19:28

          “There are bins of soya beans, corn and wheat.” Where, who filled the bins, how much did you store, and in preparation for how many people? How will you increase or replenish the bins? “cooking methods from the Nuclear War Survival Skills”.. do you currently cook meals from scratch? If unexpected “guests” show up in the beginning of the winter, your stored food supplies can be greatly depleted before the first garden crop comes in the following spring/summer. After they’ve eaten your food supplies and decided they don’t want to share in gardening or extensive preparation of foods such as Hominy, they could move on leaving you with less food. Tofu? Seriously?

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    • CK October 6, 02:11

      Wow, wow wow and double wow! I hear o lot of good stuff, them some stuff I only pray I will never encounter in person. FWIW I’m a Republican. And one of the first people welcome into my fold in a crisis just so happens to be a Democrat. We would be after each other’s throats if we let politics take reign. Instead we agree that we disagree and while we will discuss politics of all angles, we try to keep it to a minimum. Just like religion.

      My experience is broad- I have been in a variety of environments that I feel educated me immensely on what to do in a SHTF scenario. Considering that in some instances, it was just that, though on a local level.

      I have encountered people that will ask for help and want to give nothing back. I make their stay very short. I am not their momma nor am I their daddy. However, things may not always be like they seem.

      Like this one time I met a family whose truck broke down on the highway. They needed help, and even offered to do work around my place if they could stay until they got the repairs done. Well, that sounded like a deal maker, so I agreed. The first week all went well, got parts, had to return parts, this happened, that happened, expected when fixing old truck I suppose.

      In the middle of the second week I had to have the sheriff escort them away and had their truck & stuff towed. I overheard their son (about 14 years old) tell his daddy about how he watched what I did regularly and how he felt confident in killing me without a struggle. Then my place would be theirs until their truck got fixed, then they could load up everything they wanted from my place and head off to where ever they were going. His daddy congratulated him and said to just wait, it’s not time yet. WOW!

      Within 1/2 hour after that I had the sheriff’s dept. there. They wouldn’t arrest because it was my word against theirs, but they had no problem in getting them out of there. Thank God!

      I can also tell you of one fella stayed at my place for a few days, he talked about how he has money and he has this and that and the other, all talk. Well, he had nothing to help his circumstance at the time, and looking where he was I was led to believe was all fiction. That’s fine, I did promise him that when I went to the city next time I’d give him a lift to the bus station. So he got the lift to the bus station, I paid his one way ticket to where he was going, all this time he kept promising me he’d pay me back someway. Sure, right. I imagine you will, buddy.

      A month later I got a box from him. Inside was a brand new engine for a generator of mine that had broken down. And a note telling me he was gonna keep his word. He never promised me that particular motor, but he swore he’d make up the brief stay somehow. And I found out that he was exactly what he said he was, just had a series of unfortunate circumstances fall upon him.

      Or I can tell you about a neighbor in another town whose husband (and only breadmaker) was critically injured in an ATV wreck. Nearly killed. Couldn’t work for quite sometime. They were already having difficulty with his employer going out of business, so he made do with a part time job and odd jobs on the side. His wife was disabled, a verified legitimate disability (in case someone says she could be faking it), and for 6 months a neighbor, their pastor, and myself helped them with getting by. I didn’t foresee any political unrest, which is the only crisis I worry about really, so I helped with food. The other neighbor helped with transportation, and their church filled in when and where they could so helping them wouldn’t be a huge toll on us. They got by, he got healed, and back to work. Not a one of us asked for payback, because they’re our neighbors- a few of you might turn a neighbor away, but I sure won’t. Sometimes crap happens and takes us down for the count. That happens to everyone.

      The moral of the story is, don’t judge a book by it’s cover, but at the same time you gotta cover your butt. Life can be tricky, but this chick I call “Karma” can be even trickier.

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      • City Chick October 6, 15:01

        CK – “ Trust, but verify”. Ronald Regan.

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      • left coast chuck October 6, 23:24

        CK: You are incredibly lucky you overheard that conversation otherwise you wouldn’t be posting to this list.

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      • Jan Steinman October 16, 03:05

        “I paid his one way ticket to where he was going, all this time he kept promising me he’d pay me back someway.”

        We had one like that. He was so lazy, we bought him a bus ticket and took him to the station.

        A month or two later, I got an email from him, saying he got a real job and that he’d like to repay us for the bus ticket.

        “You can’t, ‘pay us back’,” I told him. “You pay it forward.” Go find someone who needs help and then help them.

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    • T October 6, 18:00

      You’ll need more help than you realize. Put them to work

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  3. Davis October 5, 16:18

    We must realize that things are much different today than ever before Our only true SHTF occurances in the US before were after the Civil War and during the Great Depression lasting from 1929 through 1933. I remember the latter one well. I was born in 1923. I well remember the people who wandered around the country who would knock on our back door asking for food. They had a stick on their shoulder with a cloth bag tied to it. They usually walked along a highway or railroad. They were always polite and humble and volunteered to do some work such as chopping stove wood or doing yard work They were called hobos. They were usually family men who had left home to find an kind of work in order to send a little money home .
    I,m concerned that we are living in a different world today. There are millions more people today with a larger number living in big cities. If the SHTF today the hungry ones today might be going around in angry, armed groups intent upon taking whatever they want by force.
    Since urban dwellers don’t have any work for unwelcome visitors, I think it would be wise to have some plastic shopping bags ready to hand out that contain a small amount of food that would feed a family of 3 or 4 for a few days.
    I’ve already started putting together a number of bags that will last a long time without refrigeration with a combination of basic nutritional inexpensive food such as a half quart +or – depending on the size of beggar family,some jelly, a small can of peanut butter, and a small can of meat. You can be ready.

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    • left coast chuck October 5, 18:11

      Davis: While I genuinely appreciate your kind-hearted feelings toward your fellow man who chose, in light of what we just experienced with a non-emergency, to not stockpile necessities of life. Wow! Is that a convoluted sentence?

      And there is more — Unfortunately, I think that you will soon have a line at your door of folks not only asking politely, but demanding, not just what you have prepared to hand out, but more. I think it will present you with a significant problem that will make you wish you had not started.

      Unlike an earlier era where hobos came to the back door, not the front door, and politely asked for food and offered to work for the food, as you, yourself said, the folks today have a sense of entitlement that is truly astounding. You will find most of them angry that the food you have prepared for them is not what they are accustomed to eating or want to eat, that there is not more of it and that they are entitled to what they feel — not what you feel — is their fair share. If they don’t get it, they will try to take it by force.

      I like Walton’s opening line, “Thank God you are here. Do you have any food and water? We have been out almost a week.” Before they even get to say a word.

      Even if a child comes to your door you can’t be sure that the child isn’t actually acting as a spy for a group of adults. The same with a woman and small child. I would be especially careful about that situation. How did she get to my door? How has she managed to survive so far with a small child? Those are just two questions that come to mind without even thinking about the situation.

      If you will recall your youth, there were county work houses where folks on welfare went for sustenance. They were sheltered, clothed and fed. It wasn’t 5 star living, but it wasn’t starving. Folks did almost anything they could to stay out of them as it was considered a mark of shame to be on the dole. That isn’t the case today. Folks feel no shame about taking food stamps, getting free lunches when they can well afford to pay for them. Lining up for all sorts of free stuff. Starting a GoFundMe page for necessities that they should have provided for themselves.

      No, I am afraid that when you were young is so different from young people today you might as well have grown up on a distant planet. I, too was a depression era baby and I know I feel like a visitor from a different planet.

      I am afraid if you start a hand out program you will be overwhelmed even if you are well armed and prepared to use force.

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      • Lalla October 5, 21:08

        This was my immediate thought as well. It would certainly be a chain reaction. Also, the people that you hand out to will run out of whatever you gave them and just keep coming back for more.

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      • TAL October 6, 03:13

        My Wife’s 91 year old Mother feels the same way, & so do we!

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      • dp October 6, 09:53

        Hi LCC,

        Long time no communicate. 🙂

        You are right on track as usual… A bit long winded as usual for some folks, but I have always enjoyed and appreciated your dissertations, 🙂 Much wisdom to be found within, and youngsters today are just too SAS (short attention span) disabled and most of them don’t even know it. 🙂

        This is how I prep, right or wrong.

        I prep primarily for me and mine. Nothing wrong with that.

        But I have been prepping for years, as well as serving my community by building and serving in local militias for years, so I have had years to buy a little here and a little there.

        I did it slowly over many years, so once I had enough for my immediate family and friends, who all laughed and refused to prep themselves BTW, I knew what I would be facing. I started putting away not only more years worth of preps for me and mine, but also preps for those people who GOD sent my way later. 🙂

        I have been in the city, due to owning property that I need to sell, so it seems that half of my house has become a storage building. I not only have enough food to feed a small militia of 10-30 people for a year, but also weapons, ammo, and reloading supplies to keep us going and secure for a year.

        GOD has seen fit to put my retirement property within my grasp, so I finally have my 12 acres of homesteader property up north in the Ozark mntns, and today he put someone into my life that is willing to buy my local property so that I can actually move and start my preps in earnest in my forever home. ( IDK where that came from. lol it makes me sound like a stray dog.)

        I can be cold and mean, and sometimes a drunken hater due to PTSD issues, and to being done wrong so often in this life by people that I trusted, but that is not my natural disposition.

        I truly don’t understand how basically good people on this site can be so shallow and greedy in their attitude. I mean, so what? You warned them and they laughed at you. Don’t be a hater, don’t hold a grudge and don’t rub it in their face when they come to you later, hat in hand looking for help after the SHTF.

        Make a plan for them now. You know that it is coming. Dry beans and rice are cheap right now. Buy it in bulk and repackage it in small containers purged of oxygen with dry ice which sublimates into plain old CO2… This lets you store dry goods for decades. Buy TONS of basic spices, and store them the same way. Salt has historically been very expensive, buy it cheap now. It is not only a necessity, but it will become a valuable trade good again once the local supply dries up and the trucks stop delivering food all across the country.. you will need it for flavoring plain meals like rice and beans, but you will also need it for preserving meats, for pickling crops, and for any livestock. Buy the good stuff in bulk for food, but buy the big pure salt lick blocks meant for cattle and store them away… these can be broken up later for human consumption and trade goods.

        LOL, I’m just rambling now, brother – but you get my point… I am just preaching to the choir in addressing this post to you. 🙂 lol.

        But honestly, I don’t understand how some of these peoples plan is to selfishly prepare for just themselves, and their game plan is to become a hermit and to turn the entire world away at the doorstep even though anyone can plainly see the writing on the wall at this point.

        That is just selfish, vindictive and hateful in my book. So what if they laughed at you now???

        They won’t be laughing when they are starving with their wife and children in tow 5 years from now, or whenever the world starts going up in flames…

        Make a plan for these people now. You will NEED them later, because despite your butt hurt feelings, and grand fantasies for revenge one day for them laughing at you today… You and a 3 man crew cannot hold out against the whole world for long.

        As usual, nothing but love brother – and the last paragraph or so was not directed at you, but at the general readership and specifically at at certain people within the group, who come across to me as typical libtards from their posts…

        To paraphase some of the comments that I have seen over the last day or two:

        I told them to prepare, and they laughed at me I am turning every one away at the door. I only have enough for me and mine, and they were warned….

        To that I say, spoken like a true libtard… Charity is cheap until you run out of other people’s money to give away – then these people’s true nature rears it’s ugly head.

        God Bless you, brother… You have always got a second refuge with me if it comes to that and your 1st bug out location fails, only now it will be 12 acres in the Ozarks of Missouri. So happy to finally have it, and feeling Blessed.

        Until then fair winds and following seas, and keep your powder dry! lol

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        • Oracle October 10, 20:08

          Can you post your address here so those in need can find your house? They can start coming there now.

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          • Oracle October 18, 13:54

            Ugh oh…I got two thumbs down, guess I need to use a sarcasm symbol next time… or just quit fooling around.

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          • City Chick October 18, 17:15

            Oracle – No need to apologize here! I actually liked your post. It’s a real good heads up reminder to all that “lose lips sink ships!” More than ever, information is a valuable commodity which needs to be guarded and carefully attended too!

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        • Jenjen October 15, 21:56

          Salt is not used to pickle crops.

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          • Christilin October 16, 16:22

            Salt is all that’s needed for fermenting. Pickles, cabbage, beets, and most vegetables can be preserved by pickling in a salt brine.

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          • red October 18, 17:57

            Jen: Most natural pickling recipes contain salt. It slows the action of mold and so on, but also slows fermentation. niio

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            • Oracle October 20, 13:36

              Red, I use salt brine to slow ferment my home grown hot peppers for my pepper sauce I bottle every fall. I’m originally from Louisiana, so hot and spicy food is a way of life. Not to mention what we ate while living in Mexico for 14 years. My Mexican friends and family found it interesting that we Gringos loved the Chilies as much as they do. I create the brine with pink Himalayan salt, fresh ginger, fresh garlic, and Ozark spring water taken from my land. I ferment four different peppers for 4 months in a 3-gallon German stone crock with a water seal around the top. It burps and gurgles the entire time. After preparation, it makes enough hot sauce to last a year for this family of eight and a few friends.

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              • red October 20, 23:29

                Oracle: we got another 80 lbs of roasted Hatch chilis, these red, which are sweet and hot. Got another mess of fresh ones that will finish turning red, then get chopped and packed to ferment san salt. We’re not salt eaters. Traditional (Mexican Tobasco Indians) don’t use salt. Juice from roasted makes very good salsa picante negra vinegar. On top of that, chimoyo chilis are now perking up after a summer slump. they like cool weather and a touch of frost doesn’t bother them. with some shelter, they die back over winter and resprout come late spring. the ex in the Sierras loves them. Bright red, thin wall for easy drying, but great all around. Can you ever eat enough chilis? niio

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                • Oracle October 21, 11:58

                  Red, well there ya go, I grow Sandia Hatch peppers, got the seeds from New Mexico. They are big peppers, and I would say a medium hot pepper. My wife cooks with them, my daughter-in-law roasts them and makes salsa. My son puts them in the smoker along with green onions when he cooks fajitas. I like them fresh and raw. I started eating cayenne in Louisiana when I was a kid, my son has followed suit. We keep a quart jar of my peppers canned in vinegar, salt, garlic, and sugar sitting out on the dinner table all the time. I can some chopped, some whole, some mixed variety and some jars have only one variety in case we get a craving for a favorite. Peppers here are as much a part of our diet as is bread to other folks. I grow nine different varieties and put up enough jars to last us a year. I like to see them ripening on the bushes. I have peppers in colors from pale green, to screaming red, peach, bright yellow, purple, and even some black Zulus. I’ll send you some seeds before next spring. Brum

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            • Nurse Dawn October 29, 07:43

              We made both wine and sauerkraut in microbiology in college. Cabbage naturally possesses various lactic acid bacteria species. Slice it up and mix salt in it and pack it dry in a jar, and in about 3 wks you have delicious juicy sauerkraut. The salt pulls the water out of the cells, and the native bacteria ferments the cabbage, digesting the carbohydrate and producing the nice sourness and also out competing less beneficial bacteria.

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          • Oracle October 20, 13:42

            How about salt brine pickling for cucumbers and other vegetables?

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            • red October 20, 23:35

              Oracle: With caution. We’re no salt tolerant. Kraut is made without salt, aka summer karat. that was developed a few centuries ago when salt cost a lot. Shred and pack it in a jar, cover with water, set in a bowl because it will ferment fast at 80 F plus degrees. Check daily and taste it after day 3. When it sours, it should be done. Taste test and freeze. It should be crunchy yet. Very good taste and no bad smell.
              Carrots in a pickle mix are loaded with sugar. No salt is needed is using them. We’re not wild about cucumbers–old timers used to say, if a pig won’t eat it, neither should a man. But, I do like some when canning chow chow. niio

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              • Oracle October 21, 11:29

                Red, this fellow is not salt tolerant at all. Too much raises my BP. Same with sugar. I like Kraut, you’ve encouraged me to make a batch, thanks.I don’t particularly care for cucumbers either, but my family loves them so I grow a a couple of bushels every year My chickens and ducks go wild for cucumbers, they get the ugly ones and those that were lost under the vines and got too big and tough for us to eat. Brum

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        • Nurse Dawn October 29, 07:34

          It’s such a big challenge to put away food and preps for my own immediate family, it has taken me years of steady buying and storing away what we would need just for a year after shtf—how on earth and WHY, for heavens sake, can I be expected to feed and care for able bodied adults who made no effort for themselves? Every ounce of rice given away is food out of my own child’s mouth, every offer of assistance is a calling card that I have something worth taking. No, we all have the same opportunity now to plan and maybe drive the old car for another year instead of the newest shiniest one, and spend the money on things that could save us if the lights went out forever. People who live for now always will and if you do the work for them now you always will have to.

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    • dp October 5, 19:09

      That is commendable, but I’m in the Dr. Bob camp. No worky no foody.

      My neighbors and friends, family, etc, 1st and foremost I have enough food on hand for I also have work and a list of who is likely to show up.

      My/Our little encampment will grow pretty fast at fist and my peps are to sustain 1-20 people through the first winter and into the growing season.

      After that when we are set for the next year or two we can talk about helping wandering hobos.

      As I said in my first post, this is not the 1st time that I made this decision and this plan. Certain trusted people WILL NEED HELP and I can afford to prep for them RIGHT NOW, too. Dry beans and rice, but a safe home and food every day. stretch it by sending out hunting/foraging/fishing parties.

      I have been in a built multiple militias over the years, and they all fall apart for the same reason. Someone comes in after you have built a good organization and they want to take it away, or rather take over and run sht. They will weasle their way into the group and build trust and partnerships behind your back, and it will be a friendly take-over with a fair vote (usually) but it is still someone coming in and taking over what you built, and they will try to do things their way.

      It creates dissent and problems within the group which eventually lead to it falling apart into factions. You have to have a plan for this.

      Be ready to take in people, but put them in their place and rule that sht or someone will destroy it for you regardless of how well intentioned.

      Treat your people fairly, learn to be a good leader, but you need to be ruthless, or watch it die before your eyes. It is not “mean” to maintain disciple, and you have a responsibility to the entire group to keep it focused and on track.

      Don’t listen to your, or anyone else’s crying heart, and let yourself go soft on keeping what YOU built. This is my best advice this morning.

      Prepare yourself mentally, to take the lead from the start, and to keep it until you decide to pass it on, and who to.

      Turning everyone away and making enemies just builds an enemy encampment outside of you door… don’t be greedy, selfish, and shortsighted. make a plan now. Plan the work, and then work the plan when the time comes.

      Adios Amigos. 🙂

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    • Sunny October 5, 19:31

      At 8 and 9 we had several hobo’s knock on our door. Those days there were no microwaves, very little quick foods. I remember making meals for them, meat, potatoes, veggies, and what ever dessert that was on hand. They were always polite and willing to work. I never ask them to work, just served them coffee while I cooked. Never let them in, they never expected an invite. My father road the rails before and after WWII, he understood them, (most of them were good law abiding, but broke Americans.) Long before people were terrified, that every man knocking on the door is a rapist or pedophile. Oh yes, I could cook also iron, clean and sew between 4H and responsible parents, actually having you do these things, as soon as you were capable. My father would have been disappointed if I had turned them away.Sunny

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      • Anne October 5, 22:48

        There are more people now on drugs and little morals. Safety of the family is too important to let in unknowns.

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    • Miss Kitty October 5, 23:31

      My fear is that if you start handing out “trick or treat” bags is that a) word will spread and you’ll be overrun, and b) if the person sees you have anything to spare they’ll want everything for themselves and use force to get it.

      If you think you’ll likely have a bunch of relatives, etc. coming to you for help, I think it might be a good idea to be proactive and have a discussion with them ahead of time, setting up in advance what help they can expect and what you expect from them in return. If you gather the clan together on your terms you’ll be in a much better position than if people just start randomly showing up and expecting to sponge off you ad infinitum.

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    • Oracle October 10, 19:54

      Davis, I’m 68 and I remember hobos coming to our rural home when I was a little fellow. They always came around to the back kitchen door. We had a small table in the kitchen, just inside the screened door, for eating breakfast or snacks. Mama would have the poor men come in the kitchen and sit at the table while she fixed them something to eat. Many times I saw her treat these complete strangers in raggedy clothes with as much kindness as she did her own family. But, Davis, those days are gone now, we can no longer safely be so trusting of strangers. If you prepare bags of food to give out, most recipients will camp near by and continue to return for more food until you run out, then they’ll just move on to the next house, rinse and repeat. They will also spread the word on the road of where you live. If you want to see the extent of greed in society today, look at the US government welfare system, 6 or more generations now live fully on government funding, with no one in the free housing filled with numerous people working to help with the support. There may be very special situations where we can help the most desperate of those in need. But if we are not wise with our giving, we ourselves will be begging in order to survive.

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  4. Fr. Bob October 5, 16:28

    This is an important idea to consider. We will need a close knit, committed group to survive lone term. I have already started trying to identify non-preppers who could help me and have been “trying out” some people. I needed help with a several jobs around my homestead and asked several people to help me. I found some that I would help and work with in a crisis, and some that I will no longer consider for a viable community and will not take care of in a crisis. That said, we need to maintain opsec. Less than a dozen people in my orbit know that I am a prepper and less than half that number know anything about the extent of my stockpile.

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    • left coast chuck October 5, 18:23

      Last year I read a book about the ’49ers, the folks who crossed the plains in covered wagons.

      The book detailed how the wagon trains had a written contract with elected officers and how each family who wanted to join the train had to sign the contract.

      It also detailed how quickly those contracts were violated with folks heading off in their own direction or just leaving the wagon train to travel solo because they couldn’t abide.

      Even wagon trains that consisted of relatives had contracts and those contracts were broken just as frequently as non-familial trains.

      Just think about large family gatherings. How smoothly do they go? How many dysfunctional families are there with family members who do not speak to each other?

      The take away? Be really, really careful whom you take in. Have a written set of rules with the penalty for violation of those rules. Be prepared to use force to enforce the rules. Consider what you will do when you need to exile someone from your retreat. That person will know almost everything about your set-up that you know. Do you want him or her rounding up allies to take what they now consider rightfully theirs?

      Think carefully about how you are going to manage. Be especially careful about to whom you reveal your preps.

      I know lone wolf won’t work. But the dangers of a group falling apart are so significant one must tred with extreme caution.

      I don’t have any answers. I can only urge you to really think carefully about how you organize after the EOTW. I think the organizational plan is just as important as the food, water and bullets plan.

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      • Sarge October 5, 22:42

        The Group that I got corralled into being the leader of has a single one page set of rules, there is just one penalty for breaking anyone of them and it is not being exiled either it is severe and permanent. We are at present 46 families with their children, 10 of whom live at our Base of Operations full time, and maintain the equipment we have there. One thing we did is when we first started out 6 years ago is we only allowed military veterans in and that is still the rule, you must be recommended by a member, vetted and interviewed by your racial/ethnic/religious opposite and gender opposite number and never at our base usually at a motel some 150 miles away. They have a set program of questions to ask each new person, and their family members, and they never use the same packet twice. We grow a lot of food, and raise cattle, sheep, goats, hogs and other live stock.

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        • red October 6, 02:37

          Sarge: Things the dems taught us well, no large groups and cell structures. Boys are encouraged to go into the military and girls to college to learn things they can use to survive if they lose their husband. niio

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      • Oracle October 12, 12:31

        Hey, Chuck. Great post. Would you mind sharing the name or author of the book you mentioned here? I’d like to read it. Thanks

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    • red October 5, 19:46

      Good to hear from you again. How are you and the family? niio

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  5. dp October 5, 17:20

    Excellent article! I have been saying this for years, while most preppers talk about running folks off with a shotgun.

    I keep telling them, how long can you stay awake and on watch by yourself, and how many enemies can you afford to make?

    Kudos on a job well done! Short sweet truth… straight to the point, and very well written and excellent advice in my humble opinion.

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    • Oracle October 20, 15:00

      dp, agreed, a very well written article. I previously thought I could have others in the family stay awake on guard and then wake me in an emergency, but it takes me a very long time to wake up enough to function safely… especially around 3:00am. A few months ago a car showed up in front of the house after midnight with no lights on. They parked close to the garage on our parking pad and no one got out of the car, nor did they announce themselves as friend or foe. Now keep in mind that we live in a forest, a mile off of a remote 2-lane blacktop, on a private gravel road with no other houses along the way, plus our house is located through iron gates another 1200 feet up the hill from the gravel road. No one comes back here at night without phoning us first, and we were not expecting anyone. So, I’m sound asleep and I hear my son calling me from upstairs using our code for “there’s a problem, get armed”, which is simply saying “Dad, GUN”. Without going into great detail, I woke up from a dead sleep, grabbed my AR and went out a side door around to the front and lit the car up with my 1800 lumen LED attached to my rifle. Turned out to be just some kids who got lost while looking for a friend’s house who lived on a different road. The eye-opening part for me was, I was able to arm myself, chamber a round, flip off the safety, and work my way outside, stumble around in the dark to take up a concealed position, but I couldn’t dress myself properly… I found I had only one boot on, my pants belt was twisted, my fly was down, and I had on no shirt. I now realize if I’m going to be responsible for issues happening at night, I’ll have to take guard duty from start to finish and stay awake. No napping allowed for me. I need coffee to function even in the morning after good night’s sleep. I’ve more than once put the coffee grinds in my cup and the milk in the French press.

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  6. james October 5, 17:25

    If they didn’t prepare after all the talks we’ve had, then I guess they’ll starve. I prep for me and my immediate family, not for those who didn’t have time for me when times were good. I have no trespassing signs posted for a good reason, cross them and see what happens.

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    • catman October 17, 17:09

      Post all the signs you want.
      Once someone comes onto your property you sre legally responsible for their safety and well-being. Why do you think liability insurance is such a big seller.
      Sure, you can kill someone here in Ms. for threatening your life on your property but even if you have a pre-planned excuse for it because the burden of proof will be on you.
      You go to jail either way.
      Unless you have what every preper needs…a deep pit.
      There is no crime if there is no body.

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  7. Janeth October 5, 18:10

    I have already played this scenario out in my head…although my Hubbo and I moved out of the city into the burbs, I know that the freeloading idiot immediate family members I still unfortunately have would seek us out. I will not open my door to them. I will not assist them in anyway shape or form. I do not care if they have nothing. Years ago, because of them, I had nothing as the father embezzled every dime I had. We were homeless. We did survive, thanks to community outreach, food banks and shelters and using my wits. If you cannot stash a bottle of water and a box of crackers, too bad. Don’t come knocking on my door or the sheriff will escort you away. Like Lisa states, if you don’t prep it’s your own damn fault. Don’t make your stupidity and assumption that a relative will help you my problem. The encroaching Civil War (especially if cheeto tRump gets re-elected) will be bad enough to survive without mooching siblings/cousins etc. holding out their hands for a free ride. If it sounds mean and cold, that’s exactly how it is meant to sound. Retribution.

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    • Prepper In Training October 5, 22:43

      Janeth,

      Politics has nothing to do with prepping and survival. Granted, one political party believes guns are bad and will do anything to take them away, while the other party believes that money and a “good” economy is the way forward. What has either party done that is so great for the average person?? Education is used more for indoctrination. Medical is all about making big pharma rich. Defund the police, or give them more money? Wear a mask, or believe in personal freedom? Orange man bad, or sleepy, senile Joe? Nationalism or globalism? NONE of this benefits me!!!!

      There is a story about ants. Put an equal number of red ants and black ants in a jar, the shake the jar vigorously for a few moments. When you dump the ants out, at first they will mill around; then they will start fighting each other. Is it because the ants are racist? No, someone pissed them off and they are attacking what they can, instead of attacking the idiot that shook the jar.

      Our jar has been shaken frequently for the past several decades. And like the ants, we attack each other instead of the people that have been shaking the jar. Whether you like or hate a president is your choice, but to accuse Trump of this division is ridiculous. MSM, politicians, and rich idiots thinking they deserve the right to control us peons are the ones to blame for our current political climate. I can point out that obama was guilty of more division in this country than Trump. Go back to the ’60s and blame Johnson and Tip O’Neal.

      We prep, not because MSM or some politician tells us to. We prep because of what they are NOT telling us. Is there honesty in government or media? There may be an honest journalist or politician, but those are very few and not high enough on the food chain to make a difference. I am not waiting for SHTF because I am too busy preparing for SHTF. I don’t have time for politics.

      But, I do want to thank you. Instead of me asking about someone’s qualifications to join my group, I will make my decision based solely on their political beliefs. I sure hope the doctor or master gardener don’t take offense when I ask them to leave.

      Compassion should run deep, but guarded. I will help some, not all, if I feel that my generosity will not be abused or betrayed.

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      • left coast chuck October 6, 00:40

        There is an honest journalist. He works for the weekly paper in GreyBull Wyoming.

        The is one honest politician. He is in his first term on the city council in Hot Springs, Idaho.

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      • red October 18, 01:25

        catman: I doubt most people care. After all, the grasshopper would have had sex at least once. You know how the world thinks. niio

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      • Oracle October 23, 19:37

        I may print your quote and hang it on the wall over my desk: “I am not waiting for SHTF because I am too busy preparing for SHTF”

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    • City Chick October 5, 22:57

      Janeth – In a SHTF situation, the sheriff is not coming to your house. I suspect here, no one will answer the phone if I dialed up 911 either.

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      • left coast chuck October 6, 00:51

        This copied from a website called sheriffs.org.

        “The average school shooting lasts 12.5 minutes, while the average police response time is 18 minutes.”

        I don’t know where this stat is from but I know in our town a medium sized town, fairly compact in layout. One can drive, observing traffic control devices and the speed limit from one end of town to the other in 30 minutes even during rush hour. Our average police response time is 12 minutes. Well below the national average and influenced by the fact that distances are close. AND the town is divided into beat patrols. That 12 minutes doesn’t mean that Officer Friendly is knocking on your door in 12 minutes. That means that he has arrived on scene and advised dispatch that he needs backup and will remain by his vehicle until backup arrives.

        That’s in a world where ostensibly, law and order are maintained. Now, figure a world where there is no radio communication; cell phone communication is out; motor vehicles don’t work and the roads, streets and highways are clogged with dead vehicles. Fires are running rampant because fire fighting equipment doesn’t run and couldn’t get through anyway.

        How long does everyone think police response time would be under that situation? A week? Six weeks? Never?

        If you are depending upon Officer Friendly helping you out with the angry mob at your door demanding more than you are handing out, he had better live across the street and you and he had better be better buddies than just a nod and “Hi” upon passing.

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        • Cavalryman October 7, 21:32

          LCC,

          We have a fire department but I have fire extinguishers.
          We have an ambulance service but I have first aid and medical equipment.
          We have a police department but I have fire arms.
          You are the fist responder today and very well could be the only responder in the future.
          One other thing, I have lots of lime if things get that bad.

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          • left coast chuck October 9, 01:04

            AirCavDiv: You will have to be all of the above when the end of the world comes about. And I might be so bold as to say you will be as busy as a one-armed paper hanger re-papering the World Trade Center solo, in time for the election night festivities.

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            • Oracle October 10, 20:24

              The “end of the world” is at least 1007 years from now. But God will have that well in control.

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              • left coast chuck October 10, 23:56

                Oracle: It may not be the end of the world according to God, but we may well think it is the end of the world. X class CMEs happen more frequently than every 1000 years. In 2017 Earth just barely dodged the bullet with one missing Earth by a week. One week’s difference and the entire Earth would have been bathed in the emissions from an X category coronal mass ejection.

                It might not have been the end of the world, but it would most assuredly been the end of our lifestyle with the world thrust back to the early 18th century but in most places without the infrastructure that existed in the early 18th century, primitive as it was and without the life skills that everyone possessed at that time.

                I have asked these questions before: When was the last time you saddled a horse; hitched a team to a wagon; drove a team of horses hitched to a wagon; slaughtered a pig and prepared the meat for storage; took something to the town blacksmith for repair?

                When was the last time your wife spun some wool into yarn; knitted a shirt or sweater; wove some yarn into lindsey woolsey; does she even know what lindsey woolsey is without looking in a dictionary or consulting Wikipedia? When was the last time a woman you knew gave birth at home using a midwife? How many midwives do you know?

                The list of 18th century skills that will become life-saving in the event our servant, electricity, goes to the great beyond would probably fill 25 pages of single spaced 12 point type — except that after a CME it would be written in ball point pen until the ink ran out and then in pencil if you had the foresight to put pencils in your prepper supplies.

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                • red October 11, 01:37

                  LCC: Very true. The old-timers understood well the saying quick on the brain or quickly dead, and stranger equal enemy. niio

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                • Oracle October 11, 21:26

                  I guess it would be better to say, “the end of the world as we know it”. In answer to your questions, I grew up on a horse and cattle farm. No need for sheep, a man can store factory made wool clothing enough to last for decades, which if stored properly, will last for 50 to 60 years… synthetics even longer. I’m working on that. Been storing multiple pairs of work boots, work gloves, and extreme weather expedition grade clothing. We have two Amish midwives within a horseback ride of us. I can suture a wound, pull teeth, (have the tools), and deliver a baby myself. I developed a blood clotting agent and have it packaged to trade or sell. We’ve been preparing for many years. My list of survival supplies and tools is a 7-page Word document long in 10 pica. LOL Three women in this house, all can sew and darn, one is a dress maker. We use 55-gallon steel drums to store kerosene for our large collection of lanterns, still buying new ones every month and I have 500 feet of wicking material so far. Also have several new rechargeable LED lanterns, flashlights, head lights, and search and rescue lights. Built a solar system with a large battery backup for charging everything and running tools, 2 deep freezers, and the water well pump. I have Honda generators and hundreds of gallons of gasoline, two 600-gallon tanks of propane. A wood heater, a wood stove, plus a huge wood-fired smoker, that I can feed from several thousand oaks and hickory on our acreage here in the Missouri Ozarks, and 5′ and 4′ one and two-man cross cut saws, several axes and busting malls to make fire and cooking wood. With 5 adults in the house who like to shoot, we own a small armory and a well used 200-yard shooting range. Tools? We got tools, of every shape, size, type and for most every use, manual and powered. Garden tractors, chain saws, garden hand tools and a wheel hoe on order. Two 4×4 trucks, two 4×4 SUVs and one highly economical 4-cylinder little SUV grocery getter. To have a means to barter, tthree years ago I began storing ammo in six different calibers. Two years ago I taught myself to distill liquor (Bourbon, Rum, and good old white lightening), I also grow tobacco, with approximately 4 millions fresh tobacco seeds stored away in temp controlled vacuum containers. I grow vegetables, grapes, and my own peppers, nine varieties, and ferment my own brand of hot sauce. I dry and hand grind 9 different spices.I raise chickens and ducks that are so proliferate I have to give some of the eggs away to neighbors. Counted 15 whitetail deer in the yard the other evening, my wife counted ten turkeys in the lower field two weeks ago. Our palce is surrounded by thousands of acres of virgin national forest, with no public areas or access within 18 miles. I’m sitting at my desk in my office that has now been turned into a food storage area. I bought a year’s supply of the regular foods we all enjoy for the eight of us, and and we rotate through it and replace it as needed. We are located 5 miles from a very small village, 18 miles from a small town, 50 miles from a medium size town and 220 miles from the liberal hell hole St Louis. Our compound is located one mile off of a quiet 2 lane paved highway on our private gravel road. We live in an area of small farms and cattle ranches. Good people, all self sufficient, and kind. Took me two years to find this place. I’m here because the good Lord prompted me to move here. If we survive the first few weeks after an EMP or other weapon, we’ll survive for decades. Brum

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                  • dp October 12, 02:14

                    Oracle,

                    You are doing well, brother – obviously, you know what you are doing.

                    My only suggestion would be to either convert any gasoline engines to alcohol now or to have the parts on hand. also don’t forget the oil for oil changes, and common spare parts (spark plugs, etc). You can make alcohol easily forever. Same for bio-diesel.

                    What part of Missouri are you in? I am currently in Arkansas, but I just bought my 12 acre homestead in Ozark county Missouri between Bull Shoals and Norfork Lake. It would be great to have like minded friends in Missouri before I make the move. Been stock piling in AR for years, so like you I am pretty much set – not new or starting late. Auto mechanic, construction, and computer science skills professionally with a lifetime of other skills too numerous to list. My first major expenditure for the new property will be a sawmill. I just need to sell off some property prior to making the move.

                    Veteran and top level militia BG. I would much appreciate some intel on Amish and other local sources for bulk supplies.

                    God Bless you and yours. 🙂

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                    • Oracle October 13, 14:29

                      Thanks, dp, for the response, I’m kinda new to this forum, didn’t expect to be so warmly accepted. Good advice, thanks. I have the oils and parts stored away. I’ve had this practice of buying two or more of everything when I order parts for repairs. Use one, store the others away. That also keeps me from heading to town every time something breaks. My generators run on gasoline, ethanol, and propane. I can make 2.4 gallons of ethanol from each bushel of corn (55 lb.) Ethanol works for our V8 car and truck engines, they’re FlexFuel engines with electronic fuel injection and port injection cylinders, but I believe straight up ethanol will be hard on the generators and other engines. I applied to the ATF bureau for a Federal permit to run a small/farm ethanol production plant, just to be legal, but canceled the request after finding out how much government hands-on unannounced inspections and extensive production record keeping is needed. Would even need to supply aerial photos of my property. Don’t need that going on. My Amish neighbors grow corn and sugar cane and I have a supplier that grows barley and wheat, stocking up on that for the Bourbon. I don’t drink much hard liquor, so I’m building up a good supply to barter with later, and it only gets better with age. I’m aging it with 100 year old charred white oak from my land. By Missouri law, (the only state it is legal) I currently can legally make up to 100 gallons of alcohol per year for personal use. The Feds don’t look into such small things. Anyway, post shtf, they’ll all be too busy protecting their own families to be bothering with us farmers just trying to get by.
                      I’m located near Grovespring Missouri, mid-state, about 65 miles North of the Arkansas border. I don’t have a military BG, missed being drafted during Nam, then too old for the Big Sandbox. Not much into the military full battle rattle look as is my 30-year-old son, he’s a Militia member. But give me an extra wool flannel shirt and little .22 rifle and I can send the best of marauders running, and bring home a few squirrels afterward to boot. I can move up to my 5.56 AR or .308 and hunting camo if things get rough. My background is 35 years of commercial and industrial photography, 10 years of E-Commerce in web hosting, web design, and Domain Name registration. I also started flipping real estate, including restoring and reselling old houses about 30 years ago. I hold a US Coastguard Captain’s license, can drive anything with 2 or more wheels, and can fly some single engine prop planes. I can fix anything I can get tools on, as long as I take pictures along the way to remember how it goes back together…and I don’t lose the parts, or leave a socket inside what I’m working on, been there done that. I have umpteen other skills used for profit and fun over my lifetime, one of which is reading a man’s character. God’s prompting through His Holy Spirit gives me the extra clarity when needed. Blessings to you also. Brum

                  • red October 12, 12:33

                    Oracle: Cool! I have friends in the mountains there. He inherited the family farm in south Illinois and the youngest son and his family moved onto the mountain farm. The two moved to IL, and regretted it since. Nice, flat land, easy to farm but very anti-veteran, very anti-preppers. Now he wants to sell and buy a place near Hendersonville, NC. I told him, best you learn Spanish, then. She wants to go back to the Ozarks (AR) or home to where she was raised, the Choctaw rez in OK.
                    Me, raised by cattlemen, brush cattle and dairy. Dad had the cattle and horses (Morgan Belgium crossbreds), and hogs. Mom, goats, chickens, ducks and geese. I was looking for something close to the border with Mexico, easy shopping, cheap gas, family down in the Sierra. I saw this place advertised and it looked interesting but had little land, but, sits on the edge of miles of brush. Just out of curiosity, I inquired and next thing I know, I’m signing my life away and packing to move. As God wills, so am I. I could not have made a better choice. Walk in His beauty.

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                    • catman October 17, 20:09

                      Thanks, I’m feeding all that info into Google maps now… I’ll be right over.
                      Put some coffee on.
                      You won’t feel a thing.
                      Just as you turn to the cabinet the coffee is in.
                      In the time it takes for 55grs of lead to travel 300 yards it’ll all be mine…or whoever gets there first.
                      That’s not a treat brother. That’s just the world you’re waiting for there.
                      Your time on earth will not be judged by how well you served yourself in this life but by how much and how well you have served others.
                      If nothing else, the latter path is a much less lonely one.
                      Happy trails, which ever path you stay on.

                  • dp October 16, 02:35

                    Oracle,

                    Thanks for the reply… It has been a hectic week here, so finally getting back to you on your last post. Odd, no reply button on that particular post, so I just scrolled up to add it to this one.

                    The site is awesome, and I can’t recall ever meeting a bad person on here… not to say that personalities don’t clash now and then, but folks tend to lick their minor wounds and forgive rather quickly. 🙂 Articles vary from good to great, and the discussion is lively.

                    it seems a waste to use perfectly good corn squeezin’s to run an engine off of. Waste wood will make alcohol for engines – just don’t drink it. The good thing that the Nazis found out about corn squeezin’s when we had them blockaded in during WWII is that the used corn makes a highly improved feed for stock.

                    Any gasoline engine that you have should be fine running off of alcohol as long as it is properly converted over. The pure alcohol will decay certain kinds of rubber in the fuel system, and they need to be jetted and properly re-timed for the new fuel. You can get away with advancing the timing a lot due to the much higher octane rating in alcohol.

                    That is quite the impressive resume, and all are valuable skills for a SHTF scenario. I was an Operations Specialist in the Navy for an enlistment (radar, navigation, communication, target tracking, etc) so the Captain’s license alone is impressive to me. Throw in pilot, cowboy, and the rest… and a country boy can survive! lol.

                    My computer systems degree is more hardware oriented with systems and network design, repair, and management, so I design, build, install, and maintain the hardware for server farms, and networking systems that folk like you use to accomplish a set task.

                    Looking at keeping a few cattle, goats, chicken, and rabbits. The old bull will be gelded for Ox duty as soon as a viable replacement is bred. Horses are just too expensive to keep around, and wild hogs are an invasive species that need to be kept under control anyway. Donkeys are a good option, but the dogs cover those jobs.

                    Reloading supplies and black powder calibers like .45 colt and .45-70 pretty much ensure that we won’t revert to bow and arrow after 10 years…

                    With proper technology and systems set up living off grid does not mean giving up any creature comforts. Home heating and A/C systems are easy to build that will last several life times.

                    Aquaponic systems will keep farmed fish and fresh vegetables available year round, and any electric will be 24-12 volt DC.

                    IDK if you have looked into the latest portable saw mill set-ups or not, but the prices are dirt cheap, and the milled wood is a God-send for any homestead. I will probably make my own. along with making a GARN style outdoor wood furnace for heat, hot water, etc.

                    Prices start at around $2,000 depending on brand.
                    https://woodmizer.com/us/Portable-Sawmills

                    GARN
                    https://www.garn.com/

                    Good chatting with you, brother. Any time that you want to exchange personal contact info, then Claude (site owner) will facilitate that. =D

                    You have fallen in with a good crowd with Red, LCC, CC, and others. I can see that you will quickly fit into the cyber community that Claude has build here.

                    May GOD Bless you and yours,

                    ~dp

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                    • Oracle October 18, 13:46

                      No hurry, same here, been busy.
                      The comments on here are very interesting, I believe I’ll learn much from everyone’s experience. I may sound harsh at times, but that’s just my getting old, my filter is wearing out. If I offend I’ll certainly ask forgiveness. I’m thick skinned myself, not much bothers me. That comes from my online debating with atheists, liberals, and followers of a certain mid-East religion that is trying to take over the world. Thanks for the compliment on my background, but, you see, I’ve been around 68 years, I have always been an adventurer, in work and in play, which has given me a diversified background to fall back on.

                      We had a surprise frost here Friday night, damaged some of my exotic pepper plants as well as my tobacco plants. My WunderGround weather app lied to me, again. Said it was supposed to be 36° got down to 31°. Only lasted an hour or two, leaves are wilted, peppers are okay. I’m debating whether to harvest the peppers now or wait and see if they’ll put out some quick leaf buds to keep them growing a few more weeks. They need a little more time for maturing the seeds. I have a Ghost Pepper I crossed with a Habanero pepper plant that I was late getting in the ground last year (2019), it was nearly in the seed stage when a full blown freeze was due, and so I pruned it back, dug it up and put it in a 3-gallon pot. I put it in the living room for the winter and it thrived. Our East wall is all glass and 22-feet-high, it’s like a greenhouse all winter. My wife raises tropical orchids in there year round. The pepper was doing so well I left it in the pot and put it out on the upper deck last spring where it gets 10 hours of sun per day. It is a late bloomer, but now is five feet tall and has around 70 odd wrinkly peppers on it. I’m collecting the seeds and will plant a few more in the spring. I also plan on keeping this same mother plant through the winter again to see how many years it will live. It has produced peppers that are almost inedible… way too hot. I’m using them as a heat base for my green pepper sauce I’ll be making next month. Some of my tobacco has flowers going to seed and they could use another two weeks of growth. That frost was a real surprise. Was 68° the day before and 77° the day after. We’ll need to discuss our computer related backgrounds more, and I also want to comment on your extensive background. I have great interest in animal husbandry, with a post collapse background in mind. But, for now I need to get back at it here, been up since 5:00am, chickens and ducks are cared for. I’ll look at the sawmill link you sent, then, much more to do. Talk to you later. Brum

                  • red October 18, 01:35

                    catman? :)? Mind yourself. this is Indian Country. Post SHTF, if I have coffee, I surely am not advertising it. It’s Indian country and coffee is the elixir of life.

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                • Nurse Dawn October 29, 08:22

                  Chuck: I am a trained nurse-midwife, I saddled my horse and rode him yesterday, and worked on training my daughters pony in harness- though he is still green, should make a nice cart pony by next year. We butchered half our chickens this fall as the flock was getting too big and annoying, and I made my kids hand pluck even though I have a plucker in the shed. I,m not sure what Linsey Wolsey is, but my daughter spins fiber on a drop spindle from her friend’s sheep, and our angora goat, and she can knit and crochet anything, sells specialty hand made, hand dyed goods on Etsy. She and I make our own soaps too, we are practicing using lye water from wood ash instead of store bought. I do garden and dry my own produce and can using my pressure canner. No blacksmith around here, but I have learned to trim my own horses hooves, and a farrier friend is teaching me shoeing, though I doubt I have the stamina for it, but I will teach my son. We are not off the grid, but my son is interested in solar and wind energy and has enrolled in a training program, so hopefully he can help get us set up eventually. The old skills are not gone my friend, they are just masquerading as expensive and eccentric hobbies now 🙂

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              • red October 18, 13:26

                but you forget, many words equals a lack of knowledge and an inability to express yourself as an adult. It’s called nattering. More, you now seem to need to blow up out of proportion anything someone says that you imagine is against you. Sorry, but all you’re doing is wasting our time. According to psychologists, you’re the very sort raiders look for first to eliminate.

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                • Oracle October 19, 16:09

                  Red, I have a standing agreement with my neighbors, anyone who threatens the community as a whole or threatens individuals, will be warned once, and removed if they continue. One poor soul whose grandparents lived near here, was a meth user in St Louis. He came home to get money and while here for just 2 days threatened a man’s daughter with rape. His body was found out in the grandparent’s yard on the morning of the third day. Maybe an overdose killed him, maybe something else. The county coroner didn’t bother to order an autopsy. Preemptive strikes work in times of war and of peace. Remove a threat before it becomes an action. Brum

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                  • red October 20, 04:01

                    Oracle: Call his demise an act of God. when I was a kid there was a violent drunk up on the Killsdeer rez, near the New York line. As the story goes, he came home and his wife sent her kids down to her sister’s. He started beating on her. When the rez cop got there, she had a bunch of little kids hanging on her and crying. Her hubs was laying on the floor with a couple of dozen knife wounds and she held the knife. He asked what happened and she said, “Suicide.” the cop asked again. She said, “He come home drunk and started to beat me. I sent the kids down the road, but my oldest, he came back and tried to stop his dad. My old man punched my kid in the face.” She turned the oldest one’s head to show the cop a big black mark. “that was when he committed suicide.” the kid was supposed to be about 6. the cop looked at the body, the knife, then the mother and said, “I beg your pardon for bothering you in the hour of your bereavement.” He wrote it up as a suicide, but also said, “The outhouse covers a multitude of problems.”
                    Killsdeer, like most reservations is a place of peace and neighborliness. when my stepson wanted to dog for bottles where my parents came from, he was politely told no, tho he offered to pay. Most of the sites had been there for a few hundred years. niio

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                    • Oracle October 20, 15:49

                      Your story brought back to memory a vile thing that happened when I was about 6-years-old. Back in the 50’s there was a fellow in Louisiana who molested his 3 little girls. Our elementary school teacher saw the signs and called the sheriff. The sheriff looked into it and removed the children. He tried to hold the father in jail but that didn’t work out and the father was going to get custody of the girls restored through a scum bag lawyer in town. One night shortly after that my dad received a call from the sheriff, whom he’d known all of his life, asking for his help with a matter. Dad went to the barn, came out with an Oak ax handle, got in the truck and drove off. A few days later the molester’s picture was in the paper, his body had been found along the highway. The article said he appeared to have been run over by several cars.

          • red October 18, 17:29

            catman or Nancy Peloci or whatever you call yourself when not looking like a moron, stop trying to wreck Preppers. You’re not a prepper, but another nazi liberal. I doubt you’ve ever been to Alabama. That’s Indian country. Please, go back to PRDK/Kali-fornia, and enjoy your life in San Fran. LOL.

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          • Oracle October 19, 01:02

            Catman, what was your dad’s response when you told him you are gay? Was he not surprised? Have your creeper peers disowned you?

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            • red October 20, 02:01

              Oracle: LOL! Stop reading my mind! 🙂
              niio

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              • Oracle October 20, 15:29

                Red, I sent some of his comments to Claude.

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                • red October 21, 23:07

                  Oracle: that was Mrs. Clinton or maybe Pelosi. Just call them that because that’s how ‘she’ acted. I have got to admit, it would be interesting to see if ‘she’ made good those threats, if she survived out little Eden in Hell’s back 40. I just hope ‘she’ doesn’t scare poor Mouser too badly. You know how shy those rattlers are. Just gentle woodland critters, as the liberals call them. And the neighbors, too 🙂 niio

                  Reply to this comment
      • Oracle October 23, 20:14

        City Chick, where I live in the Missouri Ozarks, the sheriff doesn’t come a knockn with out being invited by the homeowner. That will be even more the case post shtf. Law enforcement members will be home taking care of their own families, not out sticking their nose in other people’s business. The rule of law will return to the hands of the homeowner and to the family patriarchs. Country people, including sheriffs and deputies who live nearby, all live by ancient unspoken rules to live and let live, don’t mess with another man’s family, property or dog, and just in general stay out of each other’s business. Criminals will be dealt with decisively without hesitation. Respect will return to our society. One of my signs will read, “Leaders of marauding groups will be shot first”.

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        • Miss Kitty October 23, 23:20

          You assume the best of potential unwanted guests’ educational background…One of your other signs will need to be the definition of the word “marauder”.

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          • Oracle October 24, 21:28

            Miss Kitty, I assume very little when my family’s safety is at stake. I know my neighbors, and better yet, they know me and won’t risk coming around here uninvited. Out of the 9 people that live within a 4 mile radius of me there is only one whom I’ll need to keep an extra wary eye on post shtf. The other 11 neighbors and I are in agreement regarding that one. He’s not a bad fellow, just lacking good common sense. But stupidity can get people hurt. The word marauder refers to a person who is predatory, who lives by victimizing others. I’m not referring to a scavenger of completely abandoned properties, we may all resort to that later. Blessings to you. Brum

            Reply to this comment
  8. NC Rebel October 5, 18:48

    You better think about family.Ihave family my wife and I have chosen not to help,in any way because you can’t trust them to keep their mouths shut.When SHTF you and people you trust and can work will should be in your circle.Think about this.

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    • red October 18, 17:33

      NC: Agree. I have family down in the piedmont I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole, but family there and up in the hills I love to pieces. Mostly, you live in a great state. there are no elysian fields, as I just reminded my youngest stepson. May life be good to you. niio

      Reply to this comment
  9. City Chick October 5, 18:55

    Although I talk it up with the family all the time about how important it is to stock up, be prepared and self reliant, I prepare for them at home here as well. Our Family Home is a welcoming safe space! I could never turn them away and I know that they would never turn me away either. No matter what else happens, that’s a blessing. We know it’s all in God’s hands.

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  10. Davis October 5, 19:23

    Forgive me but I left out the main food item mentioned above that I put in the food bag to give out. It,s pop corn . You can get it in any super-market in 4 pound bags and put it in empty plastic or glass jars. Very inexpensive and stays fresh and ready to use for 20 years or more.

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    • red October 6, 02:44

      Davis: Makes good beer, too, and you still have the grain and sprouts to use for bread. I would freeze it for a week before shelving it to make certain no weevils are alive, and something to prevent pests from getting it; Diatomaceous earth, bay leaves, and so on. niio

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    • City Chick October 6, 20:14

      Davis – Popcorn is a great trick or treat snack! Lots of people will be coming to your house! 🎃

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    • cavalryman October 7, 21:45

      Davis,
      Popcorn is good, however, make sure it’s pure popcorn. By that I mean, not the prepackaged instant in a microwaveable bag. The oils in the bag will go rancid in less than three years. Found one in the back of my cupboard that I failed to rotate that was 3 years old. Tried to cook one and had to put the bag outside from the stench.

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  11. red October 5, 19:56

    Of course family. some wit hugs of joy, others with a baseball bat. Like we say, you can find friends everywhere but family will get you killed.
    But, my community is good. Most now are prepping, some even taking loans to buy guns and other weapons. Example: Up the road, 9-year-old Alejandro is a good shot with all light guns Mama y Papa have, and mami (granny) knows her stuff and learned to be a survivor growing up in Sonora. A block away Concepcion may be only 5, but she can take out a mosquito on the fly with a wrist rocket–and has a few windows, too. We live in a quiet, conservative village. Libs move here and love it, then wind up either leaving or converting. When they do leave, their kids carry conservative ideals with them. This is Arizona and still Indian country and proud of that. niio

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    • City Chick October 6, 00:35

      Red- You’ve touched on something very important here. Knowing exactly who you are dealing with is more valuable than gold. In your village, probably know everyone in some depth and are mostly like minded folks. You understand their level knowledge, skill set, how they will react in certain circumstances and who you can trust, who you can count on and on what level. The same they you. That’s all learned over time not during an interview.

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      • red October 6, 09:16

        CC: Very much. A lot of Mexicans here are from Kali-fornia and tend to get a little violent when discussing dems and libs in general. Same with the American Indians. Blacks here are black Indians, mostly. Whites are metis. Very few liberals and those liberals who are here are disgusted with the DNC. Gov. Babbitt is remembered as an example like Simon LaGree. Our political discussions are viewed online by most folks in the area. It’s like living near a reservation. This is Indian Country and a very, very conservative area. niio

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        • T October 7, 16:15

          I’d never turn anyone away that is staving but I would give them food and tell them to move on. They should have done the same as my husband and I to be prepared! When the shfi hits the fan, I will look out for ourselves! Locked and loaded!

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      • dp October 6, 19:15

        CC good to you active as well. Yes, life has been good lately. 🙂

        This discussion seems to have gone off the rails somewhat. lol I talk a lot about helping and needing people in these posts, and I guess that I am not specific enough. I also see a lot of talk about freeloaders, and helping strangers…

        The title says “friends and neighbors”, and there is a lot of talk of turning people away to starve, or how would they find you, etc. lol

        IDK about you, but I am pretty sure that my friends and neighbors can find me. 🙂 As far as running a charity or a hand out, that is not what I am advocating.

        You are 100% correct about trust but verify. If any of the people listed above find me then they will get sent packing… freeloaders and such were never friends to begin with. There seems to be some serious confusion about what constitutes a friend – maybe because fake book and other media bandy the word about as if anyone who smiles at you or gives you a pat on the back is “friended.” If I can’t trust you, then you were never my friend to begin with… I learned at a very young age to choose my friends carefully, and I work very hard to be a good neighbor. I don’t want enemies living next to me when the worst that they can do is make life difficult. In a SHTF situation it becomes too easy to put a bullet in someone’s back…

        I guess that I don’t understand how these folks feel that they are making themselves safer by turning people with easy access to you out to starve? GOD Bless you, you are always welcome at my door. I’m not going anywhere, and I don’t expect people who have had to flee for their lives to bring me gifts. 🙂

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        • City Chick October 7, 02:03

          Dp- That’s very kind of you dp and very much appreciated! In the end, God has a plan for us all. As you have seen, all we have to do is wait and be patient for it to unfold.

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  12. Dee October 5, 23:10

    If they want any help from me, they either have to have something to trade, or they will be doing a lot of yardwork to get any food. I only have one neighbor who is a taker and never a giver. She’d be pulling lots of weeds.

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  13. Miss Kitty October 5, 23:36

    My fear is that if you start handing out “trick or treat” bags is that a) word will spread and you’ll be overrun, and b) if the person sees you have anything to spare they’ll want everything for themselves and use force to get it.

    If you think you’ll likely have a bunch of relatives, etc. coming to you for help, I think it might be a good idea to be proactive and have a discussion with them ahead of time, setting up in advance what help they can expect and what you expect from them in return. If you gather the clan together on your terms you’ll be in a much better position than if people just start randomly showing up and expecting to sponge off you ad infinitum.

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    • red October 6, 02:48

      Miz Kitty: Very wise! We’re trying to get as many back to Arizona, plus many who never lived down here as possible. niio

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  14. Jake d October 6, 02:05

    It’s likely a good idea to make a list of those friends and relatives that might come to your door. While your at it make a list of the number of people you would trust with your life. Folks talk about the friends and neighbors in their support group but which of those can you trust when things get really bad and decisions have to be made. That wonderful brother- in-law is going to protect his family and feed his family if he has to choose. Brothers, sisters, cousins, etc…. If it’s you and yours or him and his who do you suppose they pick …. who would you pick?

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  15. TAL October 6, 03:09

    One can only Hope!

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  16. ST October 6, 04:15

    I don’t have enough. All will be turned away. It is that simple.

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  17. Wazza October 6, 05:49

    We will not be getting anyone coming, we will do as others do, throw trash etc around the front of the house, make it look uninviting.
    We will hopefully have my daughter SIL and Grand daughter make it here, my neighbor will be part of our group, when COVID hit he came and said, how about we watch each others backs, he offered supplies etc, I didn’t tell him we were preppers, but agreed and said if we can help we will. we have what we call ferals living across the road, the type that would take anything not theirs in a SHTF scenario.
    The biggest problem with opening your doors to others is security, can you really trust them if someone came begging and they felt sorry for them and said sure they have food and water here.
    Would have to be someone I know and trust 100%, hmmm no-one fits that bill these days, we are fairly disabled now, and anyone coming in as a member would soon see we could be dispatched easily
    Trust my biggest issue

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    • red October 6, 11:28

      Wazza: How disabled is helpless? I’m disable, but know how to turn a straw and toothpick into a dart and aim for eyes. Flour, a fan, and a lit match is a bomb. A good security door isn’t cheap, but in the long run, valuable. It should be the same color as the door. anything else, especially black, is an enticement. Same if you have bars on the windows. 5-finger socialists are usually young men and tend to be hormone driven (not that I have changed 🙂
      Just having signs from house-protection agencies has been shown to discourage break-ins. One usually works.
      learn to use a cane like a quarterstaff. Mace, a bag of beans scattered under the feet of invaders, squirt gun filled with vinegar. If urban or rural, feed skunks. They will never be pets, but are great mousers and a deterrent to invasion. Unlike many an animal, they do not bite–or in this case squirt–the hand that feeds them. Just the sight of one or more is enough to make normal thinking people walk away. I live in Arizona, and we have them here always ready to dig grubs from the garden or spray down anyone sneaking onto the place.
      Above all, you have the best weapon in anyone’s arsenal, your brain. niio

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      • Wazza October 7, 03:55

        Wife and I have had three spinal fusions, and she is in a bad way, even with all the pain medication, once they run out it will be a nightmare for us both, and to think I used to do fun runs (10kms) and martial arts, now I couldn’t run to save myself, no bugging out, we will stay and do our best to defend, Son In law is a big enough bloke, but no skills in self defense, trying to train him, Son is here with us, also on disability, Psorias arthritis that is slowlt destrwying his back, his feet are no good as it knocks him around even after a short walk, we are a healthy bunch lol, we have archery gear here, all have Katanas, and knives, Kukri and a nice Bowie, my karate students knew I liked knives lol.
        My Wife and I biggest fear is for our children, not afraid of dying (Christians), but we know how debased and evil mankind can be, some humans are more animals than actual animals.
        Good job on those skills you have, we may be down a bit but not out, not yet anyway
        Cheers from Oz

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        • dp October 7, 05:36

          Wazza, most medications including Opium have a natural (plant) source. Just saying…

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          • Wazza October 7, 08:22

            Thanks for the prayers, so many weapons here are not allowed, crossbows, slingshots, those wrist rockets etc, getting to the stage even slinging some bad language will be against the law, snowflakes will make sure of that
            Thanks about the flour, will add to my list, Son in law is a lab tech so I think he may have some ideas.
            God bless

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            • red October 7, 15:54

              Wazza: Like the saying goes, what the government doesn’t know won’t hurt us. Emergency supplies can go between the walls. Uneatable ones should be hidden, anyway. With a lab tech in the family, you should be sitting pretty after it all starts and the government collapses under its own blockhead weight. niio

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          • Oracle October 20, 14:07

            dp, hens&chicks-somniferum is proliferate. Just saying…

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        • red October 7, 07:04

          Wazza: My prayers are with you. Yeah, I like sharp pointy toys, too. Do you like crossbow pistols? Easy to use for back patients. And, a fan, a bad of flour, and a little fire. Major cause of death in flour mills in the old days was explosions caused by too much flour in the air and fool with a cigarette. It’s a last gasp defense, no pun intended, a Masada, but it works.
          An observer of humanity once said about people, and they dare call animals beasts. Blessings from Arizona. niio

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      • Oracle October 19, 21:19

        Pet trained skunks! Good idea, I’ll scoot over to the animal shelter and pick a couple of them up. What do you feed a skunk? And how do ya get a diaper on one? LOL

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        • red October 20, 08:42

          Oracle: I fed ours at the junkyard chicken bones and meat scraps. We called them our co-guards. I worked 3rd as a guard and it was cool. Take the dog and let him run all night. He had the sense to not screw with skunks but had a bad habit of teasing copperheads.
          Skunks ‘tame’ easily. You can’t trust them more than a barn cat that comes begging, but yes, they kill off rats and mice and scare the devil out of intruders. Better mousers than cats and rattlers. They don’t waste the stink unless they feel frightened. People have had them for pets for years and they never sprayed anything. If you really want to try to diaper one, be my guest, brother. Send us some pix, but thank God we don’t have smell a vision yet. niio!

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          • Oracle October 20, 14:01

            Red, you just taught me something new. I was not familiar with the positive traits of a semi-domesticated skunk. The animal shelter said they are fresh out of skunks… so I’ll see if I can run one down and catch it by hand. I’ll send you a video. LOL

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            • red October 20, 23:38

              Oracle: No Smell-a-vision! Ours are great for eating scorpions, centipedes, and killer bees, as well as mice and pack rats. A durn owl or rattler scared one down the road. We could smell it till after 9, when the sun finally burned the stink out. enjoy your new friend–maybe should say you only friend! Just leave meat scraps and bones out. That’s all we do. niio

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        • dp October 20, 09:15

          Oracle,

          I have actually been around, and just lurking. lol

          I get the follow up for any thread that I have posted to in an email, so I have been following along via email without actually signing on… This leads to some comical emails where I am privy to only half of the conversation as if I were listening to a room-mate talking on a phone call. This is one of those posts, so I figured that I would check in and see the other side of the conversation. lol

          Skunks have a personality and habits somewhat like a cat. So, they can be litter box trained, but like a cat I recommend toilet training them, so that all that you do is flush the toilet if you notice a floater. Other wise they have a clip on shield which will direct any urine down into the toilet bowl. You just remove the shield and use the toilet then you re-attach the shield.

          You get a pet skunk by either buying a new born domestic, or capturing a new born wild new-born, and hand raising it basically from birth. (shortly after) You remove the scent glands as soon as they are old enough to have the procedure done.

          I see that you have fit right in, as I knew that you would. Red, CC, LCC, and other s are all great people, as well as many others. This makes a great second online home where most get along just great, when a trouble maker shows up the locals tend to educate them quick, and if they are a slow learner they get run out of town, as you have found out. lol

          I have fallen prey to my PTSD issues, gotten good and drunk and shot off my pie hole with some stupid posts in the past. Many have forgiven – some never will… I have no one to blame but myself. Neat trick… I find that with enough alcohol I can fit both feet into my mouth at the same time. lol =D

          Anyway, I keep a low profile now mostly. Time heals all wounds, but it must be given time to work it’s magic. 🙂

          What did you think of the saw mills and the GARN batch process wood stove? You will find many videos on You-tube with more information on both. During summer months when you don’t want heat the GARN unit can be mothballed, and an outside shed (same shed that houses the GARN unit) can house another stove for summer use – specifically to heat water, cook, provide electricity for battery banks, etc. This stove runs basically all day every day to cook, heat water, run steam turbine generators, wood gasification for any stationary engines requiring fuel, etc. This is how I plan to set up my property since I an starting from scratch on an un-improved 12 acre plot.

          Watching you and your new friends run off the newest loud mouth troll, was quite entertaining. lol Always a pleasure talking to you, my friend. =D

          Respectfully,

          dp

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          • Oracle October 20, 18:07

            db, now y’all have gotten me interested in raising a baby skunk. Sorry to hear about your run-ins on here. But, you are right, time heals. When I comment on line I try to recall my Chiricahua grandmother’s jokingly wise advice, “don’t drink or smoke too much before sending smoke signals, you could start a war”. For those who don’t forgive, the good Lord tells us we should “Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave us”. Yes, I feel at home here. This is a nice change from my dealing with the animosity from many people online. But, even so, it’s my own fault. I refute atheists and others who promote sin, deny God, and or mock His son and His children online. I’m not well thought of; in fact some say they hate me as well as my God, all because I quote God’s word to show them the error of their sinful ways. I don’t beat them over the head with the gospel, nor do I compromise the Word to avoid hurting their feelings. Their soul is far too important to fall for that excuse. I have been appointed as a Watchman on the Wall, and I don’t want their blood guilt on my head for my not speaking when God says to speak… so I “must indeed, have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them from the fire; and to still others, show mercy tempered with fear.”

            I like the Garn gasification cordwood burners, the 3200 model with the built in thermal storage tank would be ideal here at my place. I’m impressed with the simplicity of design and operation of their products. But, with 30 years of experience they were able to refine the entire process. If you’re starting from scratch you would do well to build one in to your house. I have a large Napoleon free standing wood heater in my living room, heavy steel and bronze, with a glass door for esthetics, and an elctric blower built in. It can keep a coal bed going all night when shut tight. I run it 24/7 in the winter, keeps the all-electric central heat from kicking on too often. I bought and restored an old flat top wood cook stove last year, no oven with it but it could cook all of our stove top meals on its two eyes, while heating the kitchen too. I drew up a design for a dual chambered oven box for baking that will fit in the exhaust on top of the cook stove. I’ll weld it up soon and connect it. I’ve also been negotiating with a neighbor who has a large Roby Cuisiniere wood cook stove with an oven, warming box, and a water reservoir. He mentioned in passing that his wife hates it, so I’ve offered to help him out with that dilemma by buying or trading for it. I’m always willing to save a marriage. He bought the stove as an emergency back-up cooking source and she refuses to believe the electricity will ever fail or the propane will run out, so she also refuses to learn how to use it. “Too messy” she says. He probably should keep the stove and get rid of you know who. LOL

            Regarding the troll, he can dish it out, but obviously couldn’t take it. He made a few remarks that were warning signs to his being a sociopath. I may be new to this site, but I’m not new to dealing with those who are mentally unstable. Most have daddy issues due to their mama losing her proper placement under God and man’s authority, and many are sexual orientation confused. Dealing with them is a lot like hand-to-hand combat, zeroing in on their vulnerable areas takes them out in the first few rounds of the bout. The real issue is my needing to not make myself look like an insensitive jerk. But only a liberal would need a safe space from that. That’s all for now, and same here, my new friend, it’s good talking with you too. Brum

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    • Oracle October 10, 20:33

      Remove the feral den.

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  18. Max Stotto October 6, 10:08

    Draw up a list of the people right now that you would trust with the lives of you and your family while you slept, were incapacitated or were away from home at a time of great potential danger. Yeah right, and that’s your start and finish list! “In God we trust”, all others pay cash unless in credit! Oh and the list that you may be on is not perhaps the list that they are on!

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  19. red October 6, 11:52

    One thing that hit me is how many books on SHTF are talking cannibals. Writers tend to study society, and where writers of the past rarely if ever mentioned it in conjunction with even apocalyptic events, now it’s grown common. something to think on, after weeks have past and life is still bad. For that matter, gang rape by invaders. Our society has crumbled to that. Once stray animals and live stock are gone, when all stores and abandoned homes have been looted, what’s next?
    but, let not your hearts be troubled and your aim steady. niio

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  20. Blair October 6, 15:23

    Thank you for this, we all need ways to deal; with what will be real issues for real people.

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  21. Romeo Charlie October 6, 16:41

    Never feed anything you don’t want to keep around which includes cats, dogs and people and don’t let them make it to the front door in the first place.

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  22. tweell October 6, 20:00

    How much can you share and how would you do it? This is one of the hard questions that everyone has to figure out their own answers for.
    Four adult family are living with me, it’s already tough out there. We’re making ends meet and getting ahead slowly. Attitudes have changed, no longer am I the wacky widower. Can’t turn them away, they’re already inside.

    A buddy of mine lives across the street. We’ve been friends since childhood. He and his wife are raising 3 grandchildren as their own. He’s sick, needs dialysis 3x a week. If my dying friend, a good man I am proud to know, asks for help, the only answer I have is yes.

    There are others that I will not turn away; neighbors, a wayward grandson, nephews and more. These are my answers, and I may have gotten them wrong. So be it.

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  23. left coast chuck October 7, 00:00

    As with all difficult questions, there are no easy answers. It’s like scavenging. When is scavenging stealing and when is it just plain good sense? We had that discussion some time last year and while there were many varied opinions, there was no clear, concise answer to the question.

    So too, the question of when to help and when to turn away. If you have close family nearby, of course you want to help them. If you family is scattered across the U.S. the likelihood of ever seeing them again in the event of a catastrophic event is dim.

    I have discussed prepping with both of my adult children and I think my daughter is finally beginning to see the light. My son still thinks everyone will band together and sit around campfires singing kumbaya with everyone sharing, share and share alike.

    Aside from the neighborhood gossip who lives next door, most folks in this neighborhood mind their own business and aside from a nod and a wave, don’t socialize.

    I make it a habit to watch folks around and I have identified a couple that I think are peppers. The guy with the three old, right hand drive Land Rovers in his driveway just might be a preppier. The guy down at the corner who has a very large back yard and is into preserving what he grows may be. The doctor across the street from him has lots of veggies growing everywhere and they must be canning them otherwise the two of them can’t possibly be eating all that they are growing.

    The guy across the street and up a couple of houses was a mechanic until he retired. He also regularly shot short range (100 yards) bench rest at the gun club where both of is apparently belong. At least I know that he can hit the x ring at 100 yards. I think he may also reload as most bench rest shooters think they can reload better than the factories. That used to be true but I don’t know how true it is with some of the match ammo being produced at some of the factories. He also has a pretty complete machine shop in his garage, although with no electricity it might not be much help.

    We have a welfare family living in a rental a couple more doors up and they have some unusual appearing friends who frequent their abode. Yes, you can’t judge a book by its cover, but how people dress and decorate their bodies and drive their cars frequently can tell you a little about them.

    If we get a premonition about the world turning to doo-doo in time and can leave we have a place to go. If we wake up some morning and the world has turned to a cesspool, we are pretty much stuck here. I would try to organize the neighborhood for self-defense, but given how many snowflakes live on the street that I haven’t mentioned, I am sure that they will insist on their “fair share” of whatever anyone else has and will shrink from violence even when it is visited upon them.

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    • dp October 7, 03:05

      LCC,

      Unfortunately, you are 100% correct. Also unfortunately, this does not happen by accident. This is learned behavior, and while I won’t go into my usual rant it begins in the school system over the course of generations.

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  24. Alabama RN October 7, 14:32

    My husband and I live in the country and have been prepping for years. My adult kids think they know everything and refuse to see the writing on the wall. I’m sure a few of them will contact me if things get tough and I’m ready for them. My husband’s family lives nearby and they are poor and disabled and raising two grandkids that their drug addicted kids left them with. We have planned to help them out, but the druggies will never be welcomed in our space. Period. After years of stealing from my husband, they are on their own. As for the neighbors, we have already brought them cookies and gotten to know them. Your neighbors are your tribe and people are good resources. I’m a nurse and my husband is a microbiologist so we have useful skills to offer our tribe. Others in the neighborhood have useful skills as well. I’m perfectly okay with growing and storing extra food to accommodate those who are willing to contribute to our neighborhood cooperative. I agree with the author of this article. There is power in numbers! But you absolutely need to be choosy about who you allow into your circle as well! Trust and loyalty are paramount.

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    • red October 7, 16:53

      RN: when my youngest son started doing heroin, a neighbor gave me some sage advice. “Mano, you got a addict in the family, you don’t have a son, you have an addict.”
      And, yep, we have our own ‘tribe’ here. niio

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  25. CK October 7, 15:31

    Hmmm. In my opinion “prepper” is nothing more than the soccer mom version of a survivalist. And in my family being a survivalist is nothing more than having common sense. Ain’t just disasters and political unrest that you’re preparing for, but what if you lose your job? Your family’s primary breadwinner bites the dust? Or even worse- your home burns down. Think of it on all levels. What if a tornado hits and wipes out your place? Or a flood?

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    • red October 8, 13:24

      CK: Not a valid argument. SHTF, the only ones working will be the authorities and those who work for them. Don’t worry about bills because you won’t have power and outside of the city, no water. No food because computers will go down and computers are in all the trucks these days. In the phones. In every aspect of this life. I never expected more than that. Read Wolf and Iron, a novel where the computers shut down and what happens. As infrastructure decay, fungus eating at anything organic will cause a boom in CO2 levels. That, tho causes plants to grow better, provided we’re not in a nuclear winter.
      We had a fire last summer on the Catalina Mountains. One major rain and half of Tucson could be flooded. Winds are worse down that way and so is the heat. Birds and animals wiped out people’s gardens. In a SHTF event, Tucson will go dry, fast. Pumping stations get water from the reservations, and that depends on computers. A quarter million people will start looking for water. If in summer, most won’t make it far, but those who do will wipe out small towns.
      Arizona cops mostly encourage every household to have guns for self-defense. People here have been prepping for generations. Up here, we’re fortunate that we have backup water and are remote. I-10 from Phoenix to Tucson is becoming one big housing development. Here, people help each other. Race doesn’t matter. Indians own more guns than rednecks and blacks love their gins. Every Mexican is waiting for SFTF, as well, and many are from Kali, and angry at the liberals.
      It’ll happen and prepper is another name for survivalist, one that confuses the left (not a hard thing to do). peace. Let it come.

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      • CK October 10, 17:05

        Red, I see that you & I are not talking on the same wavelength. “Being prepared” is not just for major catastrophes like Hurricane Katrina or an asteroid hitting the Earth, or a civil war. This pandemic is, in fact, a version of “The End Of The World As We Know It”. It has changed society in a way that extremely few of us have ever encountered. Life has changed in so many ways, likelihood of it going back to the way it used to be is too slim to measure. The “TEOTWAWKI” many people think of is on the level of Mad Max. It that real or is it fantasy? Who know, really. But having the knowledge to survive as long as you can no matter what hits, is, or should be, our goal.

        Realistically, as I heard another survivalist say, “Survivalists are Do’ers and Preppers are wait’ers.”

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        • City Chick October 10, 19:13

          Gee, and here I thought survivalists were the folks who start in place as is without any preps and manage to stay alive wherever they may find themselves, and preppers the ones who like to have some creature comforts they can tap into should they find themselves in a similar situation!

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          • red October 10, 23:48

            CC: good definition. You cannot be a survivalist without being prepared to survive. niio

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            • City Chick October 11, 15:08

              Red – Yes in deed. It’s what works for me! This is why a solid foundation/education and life long learning/reading/doing is so important! You take that how to knowledge and skill set with you wherever you go and no one can take it a way from you.

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        • red October 10, 23:45

          CK: I live rural in Arizona. This year alone, we’ve gone thru winter blizzards, corona fake pandemic, drought, and the bighorn fires. People are preppers because they’re survivalists. You are trying to redefine words. It goes with the territory.

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  26. T October 7, 16:16

    I’d never turn anyone away that is staving but I would give them food and tell them to move on. They should have done the same as my husband and I to be prepared! When the shfi hits the fan, I will look out for ourselves! Locked and loaded!

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  27. Illini Warrior October 8, 12:07

    The current Virus situation is the absolute perfect example of the FED predicted SHTFfor severity and longevity – and – still no real determined terminal date …

    When you make a decision to share your supplies – it’s un-retractable – try moving your new guests back onto the road and/or cutting them off from their salvation …

    Just might be signing your own end – the disgruntled won’t be writing a Facebook complaint or complaining to some BS authority >>> could be some form of vicious revenge or a vendetta – possible death in a SHTF ….

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  28. Susie Harrison October 10, 01:32

    I love this article. Because everywhere I read ‘don’t ever open your door’. I don’t believe that. I believe you can trade with trusted neighbors, start a bartering system. We are a small town and know our neighbors for the most part. They aren’t going to bust into your house to feed their starving children if your willing to trade for food, medicine, or labor.

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    • dp October 10, 12:09

      Suzie,

      You are exactly right. You will need these people in time.

      Take them in… You are not sure about them? Then house them in the back yard.

      Keep them out of your house. and feed them, and give them jobs every day.

      Trust GOD to make that one fish feed the whole crew…

      Your job is to build that crew. After the fall. When the snowflakes have died off it will be you against other forts made up of professional soldiers.

      You will need these people, because you will have multiple watches with multiple schedules. You will need 10-20 people to guard one house.

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      • Oracle October 10, 20:59

        Have you considered how much stored food it will take to feed 20 people between growing seasons? Or how many deer will need to be killed and slaughtered? It might work if all 20 people are preppers and bring their own survival supplies sufficient for a year or two. If you take people in off the streets who are not prepared, eventually you will all starve together. Gardens take months to grow to maturity. We have 8 family members in our compound here in the Missouri Ozarks. Even with an entire 10’x12′ room filled with foods, we still are only prepared to feed the eight of us for one year. There are plentiful deer on our land and in the thousands of acres of national forest surrounding us, but when the stores run out of meat, the deer will be quickly consumed by the hungry residents within the first year or less. A full blown shtf situation will be a life or death scenario.

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        • red October 11, 01:30

          Oracle: Thousands of deer and tens of thousands of deer hunters. One shot, Bambi reverts from garden raider to shy woodlands critter. Those who aren’t prepared for the hordes of starving will soon join them and learn like many starving people the great delicacy of rat, until that is gone, as well. Then what? LCC? No, he’d be too tough to chew 🙂 But, you get the point.
          niio

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          • Oracle October 11, 21:45

            Yes, Red, I did the math, it was not encouraging. We far outnumber the deer. I have an agreement with my few neighbors, none of us shoot the deer on our joining lands. We are allowing them to grow a large herd to feed us later. We hunt the forests away from here. Nothing is killed for sport, and we only kill that which we can and will eat. Even with all that, seer will last only a limited time. But not to sound cold hearted, man won’t last long either and the animal population will come back. Tree rodents, squirrels, are a country boy’s delicacy. I’ve also got my eye on a fat wood chuck living just down the hill.

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            • red October 12, 12:47

              Oracle: When living in Pennsylvania, I told a friend who moved there from Colorado about woodchucks. He called me a liar and laughed. One day on the way to work I spotted one along the road and he got out, looked, and his jaw dropped. He bragged how many deer they got back home in Redfern, CO, and I showed him herds of 50 and more, does and fawns. Same scene. But, most people hunt. The season before Y2K, the herds were decimated.
              Old-timers say, if you want deer, feed them what you pasture cattle on. I don’t know MO hunting laws, but here, Arizona, if you have too many in the hay, you get extra free permits from Game and Fish. A lot of ranchers sell them and make some good cash at it. A healthy doe will have twins and triplets on clover or alfalfa. We used to plant deer feed (and for the hogs) in the brush in Penna. Chestnuts, mulberries, crabapples, and a lot of poplar (bark and buds are 10% protein), plus feed stock that likes shade, blackberries and so on. Deer are your ‘other cattle’. niio, walk in His beauty

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              • Oracle October 13, 16:27

                Red, didn’t know about a doe having twins and triplets on clover or alfalfa. I already have a few acres of clover, and now I’ll add planting a cover crop of alfalfa to my things to do list. Fortunately we have elder berries, crabapples, black berries, chestnuts, mulberries, poplar trees, red maple, dogwood, hickory, redbud and cedar growing on our land. We also have red and white oaks that cover the ground with acorns during a masting year. Our immediate neighbors have several hundred head of beef cattle, and they keep their grazing fields enriched with all the food a cow or deer needs. We are blessed to have game conservation minded neighbors adjoining us. We protect the deer from poaching, and hunting on other folk’s private land here is an absolute guarantee to get arrested at gunpoint for trespassing. If we need to go on our neighbor’s land we call first and ask permission, and they do the same. We also don’t visit neighbors at night with out calling first. Had a fellow moved here from Colorado 3 years ago, at around midnight we could hear intermittent gunfire coming from his place located about a mile away. I phoned him to see if he needed help. Turns out he was shooting coyotes by thermal vision. I told him I thought he might be having trouble over there and I apologized for what might appear as my just being nosy. He said no problem and that three other neighbors had already phoned to check on him. He doesn’t shoot coyotes at night any more. We have a lot of rules that are not written down, anywhere, most of them designed to protect and support our community. We know that help is only a few miles away if we need it. Our entrance road off the highway is 1 mile long. It is gravel and meanders up and down steep hills through thick Ozark virgin forest. The dead end sign up by the highway deters most country folk from taking a Sunday drive back here, but people still get lost and show up once every couple of months. We give them directions to their intended destination, and kindly tell them to leave and not come back. I have steel BHA drill pipe set aside to build two separate locking iron gates across the entire road. Due to the thickness of the forest, steep hills, gullies, and creek beds, our property is not accessible by even the most capable 4×4.. except by the gravel road. Anyone who shows up on foot better be a close friend. By His grace we remain safe and at peace.

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                • red October 14, 03:44

                  Oracle: Yeah, wow, do they ovulate on high-protein greens. A major plus, both legumes are high in calcium and phosphorus. Good milk maker, good for bones and antlers. If haying, most states allow you to reduce pressure by taking deer out of season. Ask the county ag rep.
                  We do live in a beautiful country. The friends who moved to IL are talking about going back to the farm in Arkansas. The grass is always green till you get to the other side.
                  I had a chance to buy-in on a farm near where their place is, in AR, from a widow but it’s just so darn wet there–to me, of course. Lots of bottom ground, good creeks on the place, forest, and plenty of good pasture and hunting. Well, Arizona is home. Second choice would be northwest Mexico where outsiders keep their nose clean or get it shot off. Good redneck genes there! niio, walk in His beauty

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                  • Oracle October 14, 13:51

                    Red, as a landowner with more than 20 acres, I am allowed a special permit to harvest deer outside of standard hunting seasons from my property here in Missouri. Yes, I agree, God has blessed us with a wonderful country. And these Ozarks are very special to me. The abundance of fresh water, game, and fish here is comforting in times such as these.

                    I just returned stateside 3 years ago from living 14 years full time in Mexico. I went there as a Christian missionary, and decided to make it home and retire there. I was on the shores of Lake Chapala in the San Madre Mountains, in the state of Jalisco. About 49 miles from the Pacific Coast, we could see Volcano Colima erupt from our upper terrazas. I enjoyed our life there, until the drug Cartel killings began taking place all around us. I bought an old lakefront hacienda and restored it over a 2 ½ year period. The land surrounded me was ancient Nahuatl homeland, and I found many artifacts when reworking my gardens. Had to teach my Mexican gardener to handle them carefully, save them for me, and to not merely throw them away. He said he’d seen them all of his life and I guess he just took them for granted. Go figure.

                    The land adjoining mine on the east side had been empty lakefront property for millennia, and wouldn’t you know it, when I moved in, so did a wealthy Cartel member… right across the road from me, 200 yards away. Long story short, he built a 9000 sq. ft. party house, I filed formal complaints against him for the ongoing noise and shooting of guns out over the lake. I didn’t kowtow as the locals did, and he hated me. He was deeply involved in transporting drugs. It took a year to put it together, I surveilled him, some other nearby neighbors also hated him and informed on his activities because he was recruiting their young men, and I had him arrested by the Federal police. Couldn’t use the local or even state police, they were his peons. We had initially planned to remain in that house, but after neighbors began disappearing, local young people were killed at the restaurants and stores where they worked, plus machine guns battles in the village square and hand grenades being thrown out of trucks on the autopista, we decided to move. I searched the entire USA, including Alaska. Didn’t want to live in a state with a short growing season, or with extreme weather, such as the Dakotas, Wyoming, e.t.c, didn’t want to be near a military base, nuclear power plant, earthquake fault line , Interstate highway, or large city. I wanted a remote location with good land, game, fresh water, good conservative people with a like mind for survival as neighbors, and God’s blessing on my final decision. I found it 3 years ago and have not regretted my decision and choice for one minute. God is good to us.

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                    • red October 15, 01:59

                      Oracle: God is always good. 🙂
                      In the 90s, the Tarahumara, up in the barrancas, lost 9,000 people to a planned famine; PRI and Monsanto/DNC did this. since then, they started to collect things. When drug lords decided the mountains were great to raise poppies, the people fought back. Not openly, but stealth. When Holder sold al those M16s to the drug lords, they had nothing to track them. When the people found out, that was the end of the drug lords in the mountains. Drug lords lost armies in the mountains just as they do in the Yucatan.
                      I have friends and family all thru the Sierra Madre. When news broke about the famine, we were part of an organization that sent tons of maize and beans south. More people bought anything they could in Mexico to help. Others provided mules to ride in and pack. The PRI never caught on till much later or would have stopped us.
                      Don’t blame the cops for looking the other way. They have families. Drug lords aren’t know for being human, just greedy. Until Fox, they owned the government. Right now, there are plenty of them buying homes on this side of the border and moving their families north. It’s moving slowly, but war is happening in Mexico. the states are growing more independent and before long, the country will break a part. Right now, mestizos are demanding their rights back to be American Indian, to be registered as that and not Spanish. The PRI is fighting it but losing. If not for the DNC, they would have lost all elections since Fox. niio

                  • ST October 17, 03:35

                    Where can I read more about these events you mentioned?

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                    • red October 18, 01:21

                      ST: Name names! who are you talking to? It’s a problem here because the program doesn’t automatically show who you’re replying to. I see a lot of that on youtube. niio!

          • ST October 19, 02:49

            My apologies. My question was for Red, about…”In the 90s, the Tarahumara”. Any links or helpful hints are appreciated. Thank you.

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    • Oracle October 13, 12:43

      Susie, I agree. The key word, as you have stated, is “trusted”. And in the case of strangers arriving at our door, we can’t fully trust them. If someone is hungry enough they can playact as being trustworthy long enough to get our guard down, then pounce. Wisdom and practical judgment in dealing with strangers is not in any way to be confused with naiveté. However, I would add, and please keep in mind, some “trusted” folks will still break your door down if their children are starving. I’ve often wondered how far I will go to keep my little grand children alive. May God protect us from such dire situations.

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  29. TA October 11, 15:20

    You must be referring to the state of affairs arriving in December 2020 in the U.S.

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  30. Jan Steinman October 16, 02:58

    It’s high time we stop looking at neighbors and friends as threats in the downfall.

    Well put!

    But how do you tell if they’re “your tribe” or not?

    Well, you can get practice with discernment right now. There are lots of “work-exchange” websites where people are looking for food and lodging in exchange for work.

    We’ve kissed a lot of frogs that way, but have gotten pretty good at separating the wheat from the chaff.

    And not only that, but a lot of the good folk who have been through here are ready to come back if there’s a crisis!

    So like all things in prepping, start now! Don’t wait for the knock at the door.

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    • dp October 16, 07:16

      Maybe that system works for you, or maybe I just misunderstand you, but that sounds like the same hippie/commune/peace-corps scheme that got us to this sad point in our history to begin with.

      What works for me is to find good hard working people and to suggest that we might create a partnership business.

      You do paint and body work, and I do auto repair – let’s open a business together and see where it goes?

      You find out quick-fast who you can trust to have your back and to pull their share of the load, and who slacks off and keeps their fingers in the cookie jar. Everyone is equal and respected.

      Even if the business fails, as many do in the first year – you have been to war with this person. When they show up on your doorstep asking for work and food, you already know them well… they have been vetted.

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  31. David of Hawaii October 16, 04:43

    We live in a small ranching/farming community.
    We purchase from a local farmers market each week and after a missile scare, I asked our farmer friend if he had enough seeds to increase his yield in event of TSHTF. His reply was that he had plenty of seed and land to triple production, but didn’t have enough workers who were interested when they could get more on welfare and sit on their duff.
    I told him that I would be the first to volunteer.
    This is what I would tell any strangers that came to the door looking for a handout. “Go to one of the farmers or ranchers and hire on for food.” Give them several numbers or addresses. Warn the farmer that you would be referring them

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    • dp October 16, 15:02

      Excellent point. Nothing wrong with charity, but it tends to undermine people’s self reliance. It comes down to focus and giving a man a fish, or teaching a man to fish.

      Prior to FDR and the New Deal people understood that the government has nothing to give out. They produce nothing, and the only way for them to provide charity is by stealing it from someone else at the point of a gun.

      The entire focus was on building character and self reliance in your neighbors which we did via apprenticeships – giving young folks the tools and skills to excel on their own.

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