We’ve had a lot to say about the EMP threat on this site, and if you’ve been keeping up with it you’re probably more than a bit worried about the consequences of this kind of attack. So you should be; EMP weapons have, in a worst-case scenario, the potential to take the entire USA back to a 19th-century technology base in a matter of minutes. It’s a different type of destruction from what was threatened during the nuclear stand-off of the Cold War, but it’s just as severe.
The ugly truth is that it’s also a lot more likely to happen. During the Cold War only one nation – the USSR – was capable of destroying the USA with its nuclear arsenal, and the fact is they were never likely to try. It might be hard to believe, but the Soviets were at least as scared as us as we were of them, and considering Russia’s history of being invaded they might have been even more scared. They also knew that, while they could destroy the USA, the USA was equally capable of destroying them. Two other countries could have inflicted enough damage on us that the inevitable US victory would have been a pretty hollow one, but as the UK is our closest ally and France isn’t actually hostile, their weapons were never going to be pointed at us anyway.
Related: You Will Not Survive an EMP Strike Without This
The New Threat is Worse
It’s all different with EMP. While the technology is beyond a terrorist group, it’s easily within reach of quite a few rogue states. All you need is a fairly crude rocket and a nuclear weapon. You don’t need a sophisticated guidance system that can drop the weapon onto a football field from half a world away, like a US or British Trident II missile can; as long as you can lob it up past the atmosphere and into a patch of sky a couple of hundred miles wide, that’s close enough.
Unfortunately for us, some very unfriendly nations can do that. North Korea is one of them – and many people believe they already have two nuclear weapons in orbit that could be used in an EMP attack. Iran is, at most, a few years away from having the capability to detonate a nuke high above the USA. Pakistan has it already, which is a worry if its government goes full islamist or is overthrown by an extremist group. A dozen other countries around the world have SCUD-class ballistic missiles that could be upgraded enough to do the job, then fitted with a nuclear warhead. Of course, any of the main nuclear powers – Britain, France, China, India, Israel and of course Russia – could saturate the sky above the USA with EMP bursts if they wanted to.
Related: Nuclear Protection Supplies You Need To Have Ready
Where Can You Hide?
So the threat is real, and not remote. In the 1970s and 80s, preppers – survivalists in the language of the time – moved their families away from major cities and likely targets to protect themselves against a much less likely threat. Where should you be if you want to be least exposed to the dangers of an EMP attack?
Well, here’s the bad news: It’s a lot harder than finding a place that won’t get nuked. The Cold War reality was that if you lived more than ten miles from the nearest nuclear target you were probably going to get through the initial attack with nothing worse than broken windows. The real danger came from fallout, and if you were prepared you could survive that.
The effects of an EMP weapon cover a much wider area. In fact a single large weapon detonated 250 miles above Kansas would affect the entire continental USA, although the effects would be most intense and damaging in a circle about 800 miles across centered below the detonation. If North Korea really does have two nuclear-armed satellites in orbit, the obvious places to detonate them would be over the northeast and southwest corners of CONUS; that would take out the government and New York’s financial markets, as well as Silicon Valley – but the effects of the weapons would cause massive damage across most of the 48 contiguous states.
And that’s just two weapons. What if the attacker could put 20 weapons into the sky above the USA? Or 200 weapons? Russia could easily hit us with two thousand EMP bursts; that would saturate the entire country with an intense enough pulse to fry every piece of unprotected electronics in America.
So, unlike a straightforward nuclear attack, there’s nowhere in the USA that’s outside the range of the weapons’ effects. If you want your electrical and electronic gear to survive you’re going to have to store it properly, disconnected and in a sealed Faraday cage. It’s no good moving to rural Montana and assuming you’re far enough away from the targets to survive.
Or is it?
It’s Not the Attack That Will Kill You
Maybe you can’t escape the effects of an EMP attack, but if you pick the right place you can escape most of the chaos that will follow. EMP weapons don’t kill directly, the casualties will come from the collapse of our infrastructure and the social breakdown that follows. Infrastructure is going to fail everywhere, of course, but that doesn’t mean everywhere will be equally badly affected.
In the aftermath of an EMP, the worst place to be is a major city. Firstly, city dwellers are more dependent on technology than rural folks, so the attack will hit their lives the hardest. Grocery stores won’t be getting any more deliveries with the roads choked by dead vehicles, so food will run out in days. Water supplies won’t even last that long, as treatment plants and pumping stations fail. All power will go, leaving the cities without heat and light. The emergency services will be crippled. Rioting and fires will spread out of control, hospitals will collapse under the twin pressures of mass casualties and failed systems, disease will quickly run out of control, and within days most of the survivors will be dispersing into the surrounding countryside. Few of them will get very far.
In a rural area you’ll still lose any electronics that weren’t shielded from the pulse, but the loss of technology won’t hit the rest of your life so hard. You probably already grow some food yourself, or have the space to do it. In any case, local farms will still have food; they just won’t be able to ship it to the cities. Your water treatment plant will probably fail, but you’ll still have access to water – if not from the taps then from rivers, springs or lakes. As long as you can treat it yourself (and that’s not hard) you’ll be fine.
Most of all, in a rural area you won’t be surrounded by a frightened, angry mob. Population density is a lot lower, and the people are more self-reliant. That, right there, takes away the biggest threat to the lives of you and your family.
There’s another risk that needs to be considered, though – nuclear power plants. We’ve already seen that many of these will fail in an EMP attack, when their cooling systems are crippled and the reactors explode and burn. The low-level fallout from these reactor explosions will probably cover most of the country, but if you’re more than a few miles from the reactor itself you’re not in any serious danger. Stay out of a ten-mile circle around any nuclear power plant.
City Life Will Kill You
So, when it comes to an EMP attack, there’s no place in the continental USA that’s safe from the effects of the weapons – but there are places where the aftermath will be much less severe. In fact, this zone of relative safety covers most of the country. Stay away from cities, large towns and nuclear power plants, settle in a small community, and be as self-reliant as you can. Do that and an EMP attack will still change your life forever, but it probably isn’t going to kill you.
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Roving gangs of desperate people and criminals will finish off the folks in rural areas…..
Guess you haven’t been to any rural areas. My brother works for a company that requires him to travel to ” rural ” areas. They typically show up armed and want to know what you are doing.
Rovers won’t make it very far on any backroads !
Yes indeed, most rural people also are not lone wolves like many urban people think. Many have already formed loose associations that resemble the old militias of Colonial times and the early days of the republic. Also many rural people are also those who’ve seen the light and have come out of the whores of Babylon that are our modern cities.
Whores of Babylon…..??? Nice choice if words… Most don’t even know.what’s really going on…
Modern cities are what I am referring to as “whores of Babylon.”
Don’t you just hate stupid people that call people that don’t live exactly like they do Whores of Babylon? Me too!! People that look down their noses like that need to have an attitude adjustment. Preferably administered by one of your so called Whores of Babylon.
HE IS NOT CALLING THE PEOPLE ” WHORES OF BABYLON” HE IS REFERING TO THE CITIES THEY COME OUT OF ! SMH
Yes indeed that is exactly what I am referring to.
No one is looking down their noses…that’s the TYPICAL LEFTIST ASSUMPTIONS.
That may be so but, I’m not sure if I want bet my life on it.
You’ll be one of the walking starving that will last exactly three days.
Why do those on the left need to place labels? They refer to people who take care of their families by having a stock of food and supplies “Preppers/survivalists/conspiracy theorists” etc. Now it’s hoarders or whatever else.
Look how the leftist cities burned during the “peaceful protests”. When people are starving because truck refuse to deliver how will they act then? Not saying that rural people are better people necessarily, some are not. But city dwellers will find themselves in an untenable situation entirely created by their seemingly blind support for socialism/communism/fascism, meaning government controlling the people. We have all seen the results of waiting for the government to fix it. Wont happen. They have built themselves shelters and stocked them extremely well while calling others hoarders. The hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds. Look at the fence around the capital but the porous southern border. As long as they keep their constituents calling the rest of us names they will be blind to their own realities.
Yes as a rural person their are a lot of people who want something free. Don’t want to work. Drug addictions etc. But you look at the underwhelming numbers versus the overwhelming numbers of one “project” in NY or Chicago and you can see how the cites will be cesspools in no time.
Please respond with all the hate you want, or open your eyes to your own reality and see if you can really survive. Think about it.
Consco: Good post. niio
Right on, Kansas Scout! ! !
You got that right! Someone that doesn’t belong in the area will stick out and be watched (or something else).
You are absolutely correct.
I live in a rural area and WE ARE prepared for any roaming band and will fight ANY government folks coming for us. It won’t be pretty, but we WILL NOT go quietly into the FEMA Camps.
so so right… I just wonder how many americans will be running to the canadian border? Just keep thinking Canada is cold we dont want to go there!
I live in Alaska. Its not so bad.. but there are many contingencies, largely to do with freezing. I store a ham radio, laptop, printer in a faraday cage. Batteries MUST be removed.. and I store them separately in a plastic bag.. if/when in the same box, ON TOP so they can be removed in winter. Same with my ink refilling supplies (the printer uses color ink TANKS that can be refilled). All systems are 12vdc. Sometimes you have to do some research in smokeless powders, performance in cold weather (don’t just assume).
Another issue in far north is satellites. Satellites rotate near the equator.. and the angle of incidence is usually pretty low. Not unusable but southern exposure can be an issue. XM radio has proven impractical for mobile application. DO remember this regards Alaska, not necessarily Canada.
I would also like to remind people that in many parts of Canada they share the same grid system and if one fails, just being over the border will likely do more to limit you than help you. I expect many will disagree.. and Im wide open to that as I have not lived in Canada.. but I know they are generally more regulated then the US is.
Now, so far as Alaska.. the stories you hear are largely if you are north of the Arctic Circle.. north. As you go north climate, darkness changes radically in just 300 miles, but I don’t want to make this about Alaska, just to tell others I put off moving to AK for about 3 decades for fear of the extreme cold I would hear of. In many ways it was greatly exaggerated.. unless you go further more north. First, it ALWAYS seems warmer then it seems.. Once below about 20-25, humidity drops radically. Teen temps seem colder then when it goes below zero.. Below zero its so dry it doesn’t seem nearly as cold as it is! Snow cannot be made into snowballs if your very life depended on it! TO DRY!. Heat isn’t absorbed into the air as readily as moist air will carry it away. Further inland .. away from bodies of water.. it gets colder, drier than Matanuska-Susitna Valley where -20 is extreme. Fairbanks/ Arctic Circle .. might make -60 or more. These being in a winter cold wave.. (generally Dec-Jan). At -50F (working Fort Greely, AK -missile base power plant).. just walking, the cold air burns exposed skin! -30F isn’t nearly as bad!
Sunsets.. sunrises.. not like down south! Sun SLICES across the horizon! touches in west.. goes under in NW.
OK, enough on AK! But there is stuff there to absorb on living in cold climates!
Best to everyone!!
I’m 3 miles south of the Canadian Border and unless you trudge across the snow through the mountains, you are not going to get in. Canada’s Border here has been closed now for almost a year.
With Alaska as a target as well as the with Continental USA, Canada would also have the same effect as if they got it .EMP would not stop at the border and asking can we come in. Most of the large cities are in the southern part of Canada including the electric making grids. Lights out in Canada too! NO use going to Canada.
Even Mexico would have a large section of the country affected,
Mike: Take into account mountains that will help block waves of radiation. More than half of Mexico is not on the grid, but many use solar to make what little electric they need. If the cities are toast, then so be it. But, small towns all over North America will survive. Small cities, as well. niio
Diddo. In a rural area you are buffered by many many neighbors and small towns closer to…. Big population centers. IMHO, there is no way a roving group of bandits (10-100) will penetrate into rural america…a group that size might be able to control an urban area inside a city….but too many rural farmers would shoot back plus logistically you could not Rome very far. I can garauntee that the neighbors near our farm will never have to deal with a roving gang because if they hit our compound first, nobody will survive.
We are all law abiding citizens and respect for law, especially the castle clause!
Should the SHTF, we have 30 of us each with a legal firearm. The 2 roads leading into the property have been set up as kill zones.
Within a minute, the 4 -15 cars/trucks of bandits would be riddled with thousands of .223 inch holes.
By the time the military came to do a welfare check, I would imagine a year will have passed and 90% of Americans will have expired /starved in the cities….
Shucks, the new USA would be 80% republican – how about that!
The population of 298 here has miles/acreage in between each of our properties and we are prepared!
Never underestimate country folks. Most are armed, know how to use them, and a lot have had military, if not combat, training. They know who belongs in their area and who doesn’t. And are quick to come to each other’s defense.
Are you really stupid enough to think only you yokels are the only ones prepared and with military training?
Unfortunately, I am in northern California. I have a bugout bag(s) for my herd and already keep a case of 223 ammo in my SUV.
When the SHTF, or we wake up one morning and no electricity and every electronic fried… We will be 4 hours into our 10 hour trip to family farm before noon. Getting out of “Babylon” asap is critical.
If you live in the city and think you can make it or are better off. ..good luck to you.
I for one believe that 80% of Americans will starve/die within a year After an EMP.
My only concern is go be far enough away from big cities before freeways become impassable with cars out of gas…..if we get bogged down driving outside Boise, we can always walk the last 100 miles!
Living in Libtard heaven, I thank god for Donald Trump every day!
John: I’m not. Arrogance has killed more people than all the plagues of liberalism. Like I said, go watch a war movie. There’s always thousands of people wandering, often starving as they move away from danger. Pre-WWII Germany had cases of cannibalism and still does, today. niio
Home: Agreed, but how did China almost take South Korea? Even expending 100 warm bodies for 1 American they nearly did. Remember motive, and work from there. niio
Just about everyone here will disagree with you. That’s what arrogance brings.
By your comment I speculate you’re some kind of city dweller. My rural neighborhood is able to more than adequately defend itself. We have quite a few vets under fifty years of age, retired law enforcement and good old fashioned rednecks. Many of us have already taken steps to band together for the common defense of our area. We are armed, trained and would present a difficult target for those willing to try to “finish off the folks” in our little rural. Maybe this will modify your idea that the rural folks are just sheep waiting for wolves.
BLAH BLAH BLAH Are you stupid enough to think that only you farmers are ready? How about all you stupid fuckers pretend we are all Americans? Oh that’s not in the Hillbilly Code of Ethics
They will have one hell of a surprise on their hands, do you think, we’ll sit here and let them help themselves. they better come prepared. Just remember we have lots of acerage to dig holes for those dumb asses. If they don’t have enough sense to get out of the city now . then they have no sense at all.
Right…………Not after they “Meet my little friend(s)”!!!I’ve got enough to take out a small army!!!
No,those of us in rural America have plenty of guns and ammo.
Greg, you could be right, if the gang is big enough to overwhelm me and mine. We have firepower most city dwellers can’t even comprehend. And if I must die, my last wish would be to die laying on top of a large pile of empty brass
LMAO you are fucking hilarious!! We have firepower no one else can comprehend……..ROTFLMAO!!! Oh you will most likely die at the hands of the people you seem to think you are so much better than. Grow up boy! This is America try joining together instead of your pipe dream that no one knows how to fight except you hillbillies!
You must be a liberal with all your” this is america shit” This is America, and we are Americans, we’ll help those that can put forth effort to help themselves. But a lot of people will want what you have than what are you going to do. Believe me America will not “join” together if an EMP happens. I sure hope you aren’t my neighbor. You’d be the first one to go, however you want to go.
I’m pretty sure you aren’t my neighbor
Good lord! I think they have us beat without firing a shot!
Look at you all! This is a pissing contest! You are all divided!
Why is it some of you seem to think because you are city folk and all those in rural are hicks that couldn’t fine the right end of a rifle? Why is it you country folk seem to think you are the only ones that CAN? If you have much any military fighting training you would know you work as a TEAM ! You would know divided we fall!
One person says something and now everyone is taking offense! Like a bunch of school children! Try HELPING each other! Why are you on this website? to cut each other down or try to help, make suggestions, tell of your experiences so others can gain! TO WORK TOGETHER! What the hell is wrong with you all???
I think, personally, living in the city has more downfalls then living in the country.. but it doesn’t make city folks stupid. If your from rural area and know how to do something .. SHARE it with ANYONE who doesn’t know so they know!
This country will never recover from an EMP if we are all divided!
Food.. Im not suggesting you give away food to all who ask.. but then, I think most of us on this site are here to LEARN and already KNOW to put food aside. It is those who tell me they “will worry about it when the things fall apart”. These are the people I worry about.. they will be the ones who will be robbing and killing as they can. Spend your energy convincing these folks to prepare.. Share your knowledge!
Johnctee, please stop dropping the “F” bomb! Some of us have relatively young children that enjoy this site.
1st Timothy 5:8
Maybe so but you’ll last a tad longer :- ))
Go to Amish country and ask them for a hunting guide. You’ll find 1 in 4 men will step forward with high power rifles and shotguns. The Amish helped like the Indians did to settle the USA of open lands before cities became a thing in each area. The roving gangs will die in farm country horribly. Have you ever asked the Amish about alcohol? They may not drink it but those folks know their grains and oils to make fire. Its why farm country is so peaceful that the neighbors know what your doing and how to cross the open fields unseen as to not spook farm animals. Hell if they want a bunch of people dead on a dairy they’ll let the cows out to stampede Intruders. A single cow or bull can punch a hole in large truck door so humans will be gonners. Also look how many people die trying to sleep with a farmer’s daughter the stats don’t lie.
Mitchell, have you ever spent time around a dairy herd? A stampede? Really?? Trained to defend life a pack of attack dogs? Dairy farmers around the country are laughing their asses off.
Linda: I spent years around dairy cattle. Number One rule for cattle is, always, if sweet, placid bossy is having a bad hair day, do not get near her. You’ll be the next farm statistic. while cattle aren’t real bright, they know you and know how you react. Stranger equals enemy, which is why every year people wind up dead ’cause they wanted to pwet the baby cow and Mama said no.Drop that barn-bred bossy off in the wilderness, and more than likely she’ll still be alive in a year. niio
This comment is so weird that I don’t know where to begin.
Bulls? Sure, but cows?
Maybe the cows I’ve been around have been raised by Quakers, not Amish.
survivor: Stats, as far as I can recall, say you’re more likely to be killed by Bossy than a bull. As long as weather permitted, we ran dairy on pasture, on the mountain with feeders and brood cows. Amish do the same. Donno about quakers. But, I bet if you took one of those quakers’ cows and dropped her off in the wilds with range cattle, a year later she’d still be alive, and ready for a fight. niio
My weapons will deter these people, and I will enjoy doing so.
You’re a jagaloon! Folks in small areas/communities are some of the most armed folks in this country. Gangs wouldn’t stand a chance trying to overtake rural areas. Not only are we, small communities well armed, we have plenty of ammo and we know damn well how to properly operate our firearms and hit whatever we are aiming at. So good luck with pulling that off pal.
The gangs in the cities could never survive in the Mts where I live. That’s if they could even make it up here alive.
Actually Linda if you spend time around a farm yard anything that spooks animals including cow’s will trigger them to try and either kill what is bothering them or run away. So yeah that can work as a weapon if you actually think how many successful conquering leaders have thought that everything is a weapon which is why the ninjas were also able to turn gardening tools into lethal wapons. Hell if you have stingrays in a fish tank their spines can be clipped and used to poison your attacker’s from the coating on them. But you think small minded game’s when survival is you have three choices of each category. The best choice, the choice that makes it difficult but works and then the choice you know sucks balls but it’s the last ditch device. Example you have a 556 bolt action best case weapon, then you have the 380 handgun the option of ok it will help me to get back out and then theirs the 7″ Bowie knife with 1/2″ spine which is less than ideal. Farm animals are the less than ideal choice but work to provide a distraction and alarm system when electricity is down. But sure keep thinking everything in the most literal way possible when everything goes wrong you’ll miss the hidden danger’s and it will end badly.
Mitchell, I wonder what kind of cow herd you’re familiar with. Most ranchers will get rid of the aggressive cows for their own safety. This is the first “Cow army” I’ve heard of. My cows know the difference between a coyote haplessly passing through the herd and hunting ones and then act accordingly. Anything out the norm such as a strange vehicle or large predator and they run…they don’t attack.
Someone here is off their meds.
Literally the attitude that widens the divide between rural folk and city folk. Roaming gangs have no chance against rural communities who know the land around them. Even modern militaries have issues controlling local populations in areas that don’t want their presence.
Those roving gangs had better be heavily armed! Otherwise they will suffer extreme losses!
Not if we get them first
If the wood ticks don’t get them, the blizzards will. It’s all proximal to how far you live from a Super Walmart. The city folk couldn’t even find my small town after their smartphone map is gone. Lol.
Spike it won’t matter if the cow is aggressive or gentle you scare them and they will try to kill a threat to their safety. If you try to cross even a neutured bulls pen and he doesn’t know your scent you better hope that 36 seconds before he catches up to you your moving faster than him. Any animal that moves in large groups like cows, horse’s, dog’s, birds and so forth if they feel threatened will attack the source especially if it’s a new smell that invaded their area. It’s why guard animals don’t attack their handler’s but go after anything else. You think most city folk know the danger’s of farm animals? Take a ride to Amish country and piss off a goat or sheep either one will try to stomp you to death after knocking you over. Most city folk die in the country side because they tried tipping a cow and another one came up and slammed in to the person with force equal to a pick up truck at 35mph.
You don’t know much about rural areas.
You are “dead wrong” Greg! ! !
Making an IED that can take out up to 25 is cheap and simple with a 2-liter soda bottle, engine starter fluid, and small nails, nuts, bolts, buckshot, etc. taped to one side of the bottle and the bottle taped to a post about waist high.
Shoot the bottle with any caliber “tracer” and enjoy the explosion.
Position several in a row and the ones that survive the first can be taken out with the second or the third, etc.
A country boy CAN survive.
Read “One Second After”.
Fictional.. but on a very real basis portraying some very probably events in an EMP. Very eye opening!
Most will die in the fires that consume the cities, and the survivors will die in a week once their food runs out. Few have the stamina or gear to spend one night outdoors in the winter. Most are farther than a week away from the ‘rural area’ on foot, and EMP means no more cars. Everything, including rural buildings that have metal in them, will burn. Want to survive? Get a metal roof and make sure its well grounded. Even better, put one over your garage and get yourself a pre-60’s vehicle, with some spare points.
Jim, Im wondering WHAT will cause the fires in the cities? (meaning, as the result of looters burning down their own cities? Not to bright to burn down your own home area. A nuk blast is another story- not likely just your city).
Im wondering what exactly you think a well grounded metal roof is going to do. I wonder HOW you will “well ground” that roof as well. Will you run a long wire from the roof to the ground? Makes a NICE antenna. Many frequencies will bring many effects.. even if you could count on grounding it.. you are virtually insinuating that if you hang a metal garbage can lid over your computer it will effectively provide protection to your computer! Maybe not as much as a faraday cage.. but in all practicality, the garbage can lid… or the metal roof.. will do VERY LITTLE in the way of protecting much.. maybe protect your old car from UV rays!
The vehicles dont even have to be that old.
Read the “One Second After” series by William Fortschen. It will give you a pretty good idea how “rural” folks would react to a threat like that after an EMP. He based the series on the area on NC where he lives…it seems pretty accurate.
Even though fiction, its a very good eye opener to the potential mayhem and EMP would likely bring.
Every prepper should read!
are you kidding? I live in Indian country. The average Native American (one person alone) owns more guns than the average family of Texans. When I was a baby and got sick, my grandmother gave me a 50 caliber brass shell casing (used 🙂 to teeth on. A cousin learning to make silver jewelry from his great-uncle had the hots for a girl who ignored him. On the uncle’s advice, he cut the ends off brass casings, polished it, and made her necklace. 9 months later, the rube was sitting at his mother-in-law’s table with a ring in his nose (so to speak, haha 🙂 waiting on the baby to come out screaming at the world. He gave her a nice .22 for a birthing present and a year later, was back in that kitchen while the mother-in-law helped again. What is Indian country? In your house, redneck. to the libs, we’re all injuns meant to be relocated or removed. We do not make good pets. I live 40 miles north of Tucson, one of the worse towns in the US, a sanctuary city. Long before they get to my town, they’ll discover the meaning of run the gauntlet. peace to you.
Greg: they’ll try, but there’s be plenty for them to eat in the cities, as long as the corpses stay fresh. have you ever seen the average city man to a garter snake? 🙂 then think about how a rattler would make them move. How about packs of starving dogs? They’ll have little fear of humans and after a few bites on a person, they’ll hunt people. City people. Country knows how to act. City sees stray dogs all the time and ignores them. After coyotes get the dogs, they go after people. I don’t see many making it from ,say, Tucson let alone Phoenix to my town. As it is, we’re all criminals in the minds of the lunatic nazi dnc. niio
And just how are they going to get to the rural areas? It is not just a 2 mile stroll to the rural areas. Surviving vehicles will not abundant. They were too lazy to prepare so they are not going to all of a sudden have energy to walk miles to somewhere they have no idea of where to go.. I can’t imagine a roving band on bicycles.It’s not like TV shows. One moment your here then the next your 40 miles down the road.. .
Mike; Watch a war movie. They always seem to show thousands of starving, frightened people on the move. Any direction will do, but away from danger always. Towards rumors of food, always.
I was raised rural. We love to walk. Walk fences, walk fields, walk pastures, groves and orchards. Towns people go on hikes.Good foot gear, clothes, backpacks, over priced survival goodies. Add an incentive. 1920s, people who had never traveled more than a few kilometers from home found themself in new, strange nations. A lot of them died, but most made it. Dirt roads, mountains, they moved.
Got a bike? How many are there built for rough trails? A good ten-speed will put up miles down the road. Year ago, people looking for bugout sites were told stay more than 90 miles from an interstate, and as far from a state route as possible. Every morning, bicyclists are all over the state routes.
Even the very lazy will boogie if they have to, niio
Just how are the gangs and mobs going to get to the rural areas. Very few vehicles would be working. Being lazy in nature by not preparing themselves what has happened of all of a sudden the energy to travel many miles becasue rural areas are not close to the cities.
Unlike TV you are someplace and the next second your 40 miles away. Foot or bicycles modes of transportation – skate boards wouldn’t work.
Another point people who live in rural areas know people all around them for many a mile. These people have had knowledge of what was happening in the cities and would be prepared for the few who would be adventurous.
People in the rural areas also know which end of the gun works best – they hunt and kill their own food and every house hold has a gun unlike the city folks which the gang is use to..
A question,what will an emp strike do to pacemakers. Few family members and close neighbors have them .
A solar storm won’t destroy a pacemaker. But if you are in an airplane – flying above 30000 ft – then you might be in trouble. Earth’s atmosphere does not provide significant shielding at this altitude. According to NASA, the effects at this altitude are ten times higher than on the ground.
On the other hand, a HEMP (nuclear EMP) generating over 30000 V/m can be a problem. Here is a very good answer from a specialist:
” I have been a medical scientist working with pacemakers for 36 years, and I think I can give a definitive answer! The hermetically sealed can will indeed be a pretty good Faraday cage so no direct damage from an EMP. A bipolar system with, say, 5mm electrode separation will, with a major high-altitude EMP generating ~25 kV/m in the northern US, deliver a voltage pulse to the circuitry of about 900V – this won’t damage a pacemaker, they are designed to cope with external defibrillator voltages. A UNIPOLAR system, where the electrodes may be 15cm apart, will generate a bigger voltage, maybe 4-5kV, to the generator, and this could be damaging.”
According to some manufacturers a powerful EMP may just turn the device off.
From the article: http://www.askaprepper.com/emp-myths-and-facts-whats-bs-and-whats-true/
If you happen to be in a plane when am EMP hits, your a goner. The plane will crash due to it’s computerized components fried. Chances are you will not be flying at the time but you do have a Pacemaker, still not good. There are many different models of Pacemakers, all use computers. Still, I doubt if you would drop dead immediately unless you have really severe heart problem are are awaiting a heart transplant. Roving gangs, starvation , wild dogs and disease will be a problem for all who survive. Most of our high ranking elected officials ill be quickly removed to underground bunkers to wait out whatever comes next.
Anne, when an EMP hits, if you are in any type of aircraft that cannot glide and have a chance to land without power then you will crash and probably die, pacemakers or not.
There’s a lot of debate about this. Pacemakers are vulnerable to electromagnetic interference (EMI) – this is why some security scanners have warning signs to warn pacemaker users to get a pat-down instead. Manufacturers try to harden pacemakers against EMI as much as they can, but there are limits – and modern, computerized pacemakers might be more vulnerable than older, simpler ones.
Claude: I posed this question to Dr. Arthur Bradley. Perhaps you are familiar with the name. I posted his answer to the question on line in another similar discussion. In short his answer was that pacemakers will not be affected. That doesn’t solve the problem of replacing batteries later on in time. Not to sound too casual about it, but if you have a pacemaker, you are going to live a shorter period than a person whose heart is in better shape. No medical procedure eliminates the inevitable.
even if they aren’t fried by the pulse which they like they will be there be no Replacements could be no insulin or other medications so that they are free
When I worked for PetSmart the id tags said the magnets can cause pacemaker interference. You’d have to research the model of the pacemaker. The other big issue in a EMP situation say they do survive it the device still uses a battery that needs replaced by skilled team with a clean room that requires electricity. So it could be a long good-bye if your family does survive sadly of the device battery dieing.
With all those warheads exploding in the air, surely some if not a lot of that radiation will fall to earth wont it?
That will poison the whole country.
Actually the radiation threat from an EMP attack is zero. Not low; zero. EMP weapons detonate two or three hundred miles up, well outside the atmosphere. The vaporized remains of the weapon will become a small cloud in space that’s soon swept off towards Mars by the solar wind. The gamma pulse emitted by the weapon itself loses intensity at the cube of the distance from the explosion, so by the time it reaches the surface it will be so weak it won’t even cause a detectable spike in the background radiation.
Most EMP attacks are done above the outer limit of the atmosphere. This is because the Earth’s magnetic field and the ionization of the atmosphere enhances the effects of the pulses. The blast wave, and other effects of the nuclear detonation has very little impact on the surface. Your fallout mostly occurs with air and ground bursts in the lower atmosphere where the ash and other irradiated debris can be sucked back into the central column of smoke and distributed by the Jet Stream and prevailing winds.
Israel? I doubt very much Israel would attack the U.S. Israel is America’s friend, or didn’t you know tha?
Israel is Israel’s friend. They have a lot of interests in common with the USA, but they also spy on us. Anyway, the article was talking about countries that COULD attack us in this way, which is why the UK – a country that really is our friend – is on the list. It isn’t suggesting that they WOULD attack us, just that the capability is there.
The UK is disgusting with trying to get us to ban our firearms because they have an authoritarian complex that we are free to have them. Wouldn’t trust them either side ce through the UN they ask us to help fund for everything that’s a joint venture. And we also spy on all of Europe and our other friends like Japan and China.
someone had better brush up on their history!!!
The UK is not trying to get us to ban our firearms. They haven’t even banned their own. Sure, they have restrictions on the kinds of guns you can own – most of them pretty dumb, and all of them ineffective – but there are plenty legally owned guns in the UK.
Yes, we spy on Europe. We do that through the Five Eyes intelligence community, which is the USA and its closest friends; Canada, Australia, New Zealand – and the UK.
Israel is Israel’s friend. No one else. They knew in advance if the bombing that brought down pan am 103 over Lockerbie. They didn’t warn us. The plo did though, sadly the CIA didn’t find their tip credible.
Ever heard of 9/11 and the Israeli Mossad? Israel is our friend. lol
For those of you afraid of nuclear power plants, here is some information. In the event of an EMP, the control rods will automatically drop to the bottom, this stops the fission process. The core of the reactor will be isolated by shutting the coolant loop isolation valves. This keeps the core covered in water. As long as the core remains covered and the control rods inserted, there is little chance of an accident.
It’s not quite that simple, Darryl. In fact there was a post on this site a couple of weeks ago on how safe nuclear plants will be in an EMP attack. The fact is, at least half of them are likely to fail pretty badly.
I have studied the issue at length, but I don’t consider myself to be an authority on this subject. I will simply point out an issue that someone with the proper credentials can address.
It is my understanding that due to logistical, and just as importantly, political issues, most nuclear power plants store spent fuel rods on site in what are the equivalent of large swimming pools inside containment buildings. The circulation of cool water in the pool is essential in keeping the rods at a low enough temperature to be harmless.
If fuel is not delivered to the power plant due to the effects of EMP on the production and delivery system, the water cannot be circulated. The water will then heat up and will then be boiled away. A fire will then break out, and the resulting effect will be that the containment building’s integrity will be compromised. Radiation will then spewed into the surrounding countryside à la Chernobyl.
Would someone, again, someone with the proper credentials, please tell me if this scenario is accurate?
If it is, doesn’t it make it somewhat academic if the reactor itself shuts down?
Perhaps there would be a dramatic difference in the level of radiation that is spewed into the atmosphere.
Yet, even if this is the case, it would still be an environmental disaster that would make large parts of the country unlivable.
The scenario is not accurate. By definition the rods are spent fuel which are in radioactive decay not in fission production. Spent rods are just very concentrated and lethal for thousands of years as they decay. No fire or explosion risk but they do have an exposure risk which is why bad people want them to make dirty bombs from. On site storage problems is more about political issues (far left environmentalist resistance) for transport and storage in Yucca mountain.
Seems the map has nothing to do with the article and the article doesnt really talk about safe zones! 🙁
“The low-level fallout from these reactor explosions will probably cover most of the country, but if you’re more than a few miles from the reactor itself you’re not in any serious danger. Stay out of a ten-mile circle around any nuclear power plant.”
Are you freakin’ kidding???? Probably all of these numerous plants across the USA, eventually going full-blown Fukushima, will drive cancer rates and birth defects sky-high, not to mention radiation poisoning in our air, food, and water. Very few places if any, even the remote ones out west where few of these abominations were built, will be free of nuclear poisoning on some level.
Exactly I know the Chernobyl tours take you within 400 meters of the power plant. As long as it’s not a heavy wind day your safe from all directions. The worst issue comes from any animal the grabs an irratiated piece of scrap and runs into a populated area. The animal would die quickly but could make a lot of people sick in this rare scenario. Like a bird grabbing something shiny that’s coated in waste material and next thing we know handfuls of people get sick.
First: All nuclear power reactors in the US are hard-designed to “FAIL SAFE”, i.e., to self-shutdown in the event of a cooling failure, critical loss of power to controls, etc. so the threat of total failure (melt-down) of the reactor core is very very low. The containment dome is there to contain (duh) any fission by-product gases if, following an UNLIKELY melt-down, an even MORE UNLIKELY rupture of the reactor case or system piping occurs. Any fission by-product solids exposed by the event are just gonna sit there.
Second: Virtually all operating power reactors on our planet use U-238 which is NON-FISSILE meaning it is NOT bomb material. IN SHORT, THE REACTOR CORE AIN’T GONNA “EXPLODE”. PERIOD.
Third: As a country, we’ve over 70 years experience building and operating these machines safely. The weakest link in the nuclear safety regime is neither mechanical nor electrical nor EMP. The weakest link is the human operator and the degree of professional training he has been provided.
Fourth: Since the cost of reactor safety measures is insignificant in the scheme of things, not even the stupidest investor would even THINK about skimping on safety measures when buying a reactor. Moreover, the two companies who actually design, build, and sell reactors in the US (GE & Westinghouse) ain’t too terribly stupid either.
Fifth: Did I mention the hysteria generated deliberately by anti-nuclear power NIMBY idiots?
What you do is too important to be lazy about fact-checking before publishing. Just sayin’
Fukushima was designed to fail safe, too, and that’s exactly what it did. Then it exploded anyway, because the tsunami took out the backup generators needed to keep the coolant flowing. EMP is also capable of taking out either the control systems that tell the backups to kick in, or even the generators themselves. And when that happens it’s only a matter of time before boiling coolant blows the containment vessel apart.
Here in Orlando we have responded to hurricanes and lightning strikes and tornados. We have had a little practice coordinating multiple organizations to a response to a disaster. Power has gone out for me as long as two weeks. I was stuck drinking warm beer with the dogs. Our churches are encourged to develop a disaster plan, and many churches take that seriously. In fact, there is an annual Faith-Based Breakfast in Orlando August 15, at Second Harvest Food banks. Orange County Citizen Corp sponsors this event, and attempts to encourage the community to prepare for an EMP, and other disasters. Even our amusement parks are like independent communities, and are partially prepared. Most everyone I know is partially organized and grows a little ‘Victory Garden’. I actually believe God is in control, and evil by others will be used by God for good (somehow).
“The containment dome is there to contain (duh) any fission by-product gases if, following an UNLIKELY melt-down, an even MORE UNLIKELY rupture of the reactor case or system piping occurs.”
Yeah, the containment buildings at Fukushima worked so well. I’ll sleep better tonight knowing this.
“Second: Virtually all operating power reactors on our planet use U-238 which is NON-FISSILE meaning it is NOT bomb material. IN SHORT, THE REACTOR CORE AIN’T GONNA “EXPLODE”. PERIOD.”
That’s another comfort. I believe the explosions at Fukushima were hydrogen gas or steam, not nuclear explosions in the sense of a nuclear bomb. Glad that all turned out so well.
“Third: As a country, we’ve over 70 years experience building and operating these machines safely.”
I guess that’s why we have so much tritium and other radioactive materials showing up in soil and groundwater around our aging plants. No doubt, this is a comfort to those living near these plants.
“Fourth: Since the cost of reactor safety measures is insignificant in the scheme of things, not even the stupidest investor would even THINK about skimping on safety measures when buying a reactor. Moreover, the two companies who actually design, build, and sell reactors in the US (GE & Westinghouse) ain’t too terribly stupid either.”
Hmmm, seems like Fukushima used GE designed reactors. No skimping on quality or safety except the stuff you really believe/hope won’t come back to bite you on the butt. But what happens when it DOES? For all the safeguards and safety measures, these “smart” people overlooked something very important that they should have caught. Japan has always been prone to significant earthquakes. How did these smart people miss the possibility of water damaging backup cooling generators???? Or was this an “unlikely” event that greed dictated cutting corners on, so more money could go into certain peoples’pockets? Don’t try and pretend it doesn’t happen, because it does. This time, it has cost the people of Japan dearly and the rest of the world.
“Fifth: Did I mention the hysteria generated deliberately by anti-nuclear power NIMBY idiots?”
Oh, do you mean the idiots who are smart enough to see nuclear power for the scam and the very real danger it poses to the planet, including ever-growing piles of nuclear waste which will be deadly for hundreds of thousands of years, yet is disposed of in ways that doesn’t keep it isolated completely for more than a few decades?
As you said the explosions at Fukushima were not nuclear, an EMP would take out the electronics, which would kill the cooling pumps, even if the core was shut down, the residual heat would build up to a point where there water will all boil off, If the containment vesicle can not hold the pressure, and it won’t then the explosion will cause much damage and release lots of radioactive gasses, so best be at least 30 miles away, 50 would be better.
Only the uninformed or environmental terrorists this k like you do. Fast actinide burners are incapable of melting down, and produce waste that’s no more radioactive than uranium ore mined from the ground after only 200 years. They run on ‘waste’ from conventional nuclear reactors and their waste us > 25% by weight industrial metals like silver, palladium and rhenium.
According to a report I just recently read on Yucca Flats, the life of the rods is only 60,000 years, not hundreds of thousands of years.
Like so many other problems facing the country, the politicians in Washington keep kicking the problem of nuclear waste storage/disposal down the road hoping nothing will go wrong before the next election.
Waste storage/disposal is a serious problem and the older the plant, the more significant the problem is. It doesn’t even matter that the plant has been shuttered. The spent, highly radioactive (well, only for 60,000 years) fuel rods are all stored on site in, as someone else pointed out, pools of water that keep the rods cooled down so they don’t self-ignite
Fukushima Dai Ichi was a fairly recent plant as far as nuclear generation goes, built by GE using the latest technology. Nobody does training like the Japanese. Their attention to detail is beyond normal (for us anyway). They actually spend far more on employee training than any U.S. company even contemplates.
Interestingly enough, I just read an article which suggested that some of the Henny Pennys of global warming are now thinking that nuclear energy is going to save the earth from CO2 emissions. Of course, first they have to solve the problem of what to do with the spent nuclear fuel.
I don’t know about anybody else, but for me, spent highly radioactive fuel rods (for 60,000 years) are a significantly worse problem than 2°C global warming. It was about that warm during the Medieval Warming Period which lasted from about 800 to 1100 AD which was followed by the Little Ice Age. Those medieval peasants driving around in their SUV ox carts, using two oxen instead of the ordinary one were the whole cause of it all.
I actually disagree slightly with LCC here. Yes the Japanese do spend money on training. BUT almost all of our reactor operators come from the US Navy. The USN does have a pretty good program and an excellent track record. A lot of money is spent trading these guys.
Where I agree 100% with LCC is global warming from 8-1100 and England had a thriving wine grape industry, until the mini ice age. Yep those 2 oxen carts did it….
Agree with LCC about the 60K years. would love to see actual science no bought and paid for by either side about the real dangers.
Hard to believe that National Geographic says nuclear power is the savior of the planet from global warming.
The same people who brought us The China Syndrome!!!
LCC: LOL! Well said!
All of you, if you haven’t already, need to read the book “One Second After” by William Forstchen. It does a great job of painting a post-EMP America. Not good.
I read the whole series of 3 books. It makes you stop and think about possibilities. I highly recommend these books. We live close to Black Mountain NC. We have gone there twice to check out details from the book.
Another unknowable EMP danger is the location of Naval Nuclear vessels.
I don’t know where you got the information on the extent of an EMP burst, but from my information, one burst at 200 plus miles up over the center of the USA will cover the entire area with enough power to kill all electronics that is not EMP protected, and the only thing that is are what the Military has, forget anything else, and most of the ideas for a Faraday cage are bad. A treated plastic bag will not do the trick, When it was first discovered, it was because the insulation was melted on the wires of the sensors. so much for your bag. A metal ammo can with aluminum tape sealing or a metal trash can again sealed with aluminum tape, at least two layers, three to be sure overlapping, is the only expedient thing I know of that will protect.
I have good news. There are, in fact, places which are likely to be actually safe from a nuclear weapon based EMP attack. The radiation travels in straight lines. It does not “turn corners”. It will go through walls.
However, it will not go through a hill or mountain. So a valley is actually safe from EMP which is not from a bomb which was overhead.
Put a different way: EMP travels to the horizon. Mountains create a closer horizon. The maps that show how much of the US would be impacted, based on the height of the explosion, are calculated based on the curvature of the Earth — the horizon.
Or, from the opposite perspective: you will be impacted if there is line-of-sight to the explosion, even if so far away that you see nothing. Behind a mountain, you will not have line-of-sight to the explosion.
The radiation travels in a straight line. The problem is it’s not the radiation you’re worrried about here; it’s the EMP. The initial pulse from the weapon affects a large area of the upper atmosphere, and the pulse effect then cascades down, spreading as it goes. If you’re within the effect area there aren’t going to be any terrain shadows to hide in.
Electromagnetic pulses are radio waves. The word “radiation” includes radio waves; apologies for the confusion. An EMP pulse is much more powerful than typical radio waves, and covers a broad spectrum, unlike radio transmissions. But like all radio waves, they travel in a straight line from the source. EMP does not “skip” off of the upper atmosphere like some Ham transmissions can do (possibly because EMP originates only from a denotation above the atmosphere). If it could reflect or bounce that way, it would travel around the world, which is not what has been observed.
Thus what I said about being in a valley stands. If you are in a local location where mountains block radio and TV stations, you are equally protected from EMP (unless it is overhead, of course).
The E1 pulse is basically a radio wave, but its a pulse, not a continuing oscillation. There are MANY frequencies.. I think we both agree on that..
But to address different frequencies and traveling around the world, first low frequency waves tend to travel along the ground.. I would expect there might be some issues with the immediate cone area under the blast .. but at a distance I expect this would be largely the case for your low frequencies. As you increase frequency (but still within the HF band) (up to 30 MHz) radio waves tend to bounce off the ionosphere and back down to earth. This is where it gets interesting.. Different times of the day/night effect the ionosphere differently.. from the SUN. This is where a ham radio can talk to distant places.. but choosing the best frequency for the conditions.. enabling an operator to make those distant connections. It doesn’t “JUST HAPPEN”. As you get above the 30 MHz point you start seeing more of your radio energy to THRU the ionosphere and into space.
Most of your smaller hand held (“HT”) radios use higher frequencies due to the shorter antenna requirements.. and with it, you get a line of sight restriction as well. Of course, in town you have a lot of reflection between buildings.. out away from the city you get some reflection off hills and mountains, helping you get around SOME things.. but you still are limited to line of sight.. + a little.
Every time the radio wave reflects.. it looses some part of it.. A metal surface can be anywhere from absorbing it to being a good reflector… depending on, mostly, resonance… If we had an EMP, I would expect SOME of it to bounce to far off places.. How many bounces it makes, who knows. Some areas you might get some of it.. and someone might be 5 miles away and not get it at all. if you were on another continent. As for being in the distant hills, I expect you will still get SOME of it in the valleys as well Probably much weaker, depending on how far away it was, how high, the condition of the ionosphere and the geomagnetic field around the planet.. and…(BTW, YES, ALL mentioned plus many, many variables).
I would NEVER say being in a valley would make you safe.. It will likely give you greater protection to the HIGHER frequencies of the EMP.. but I would STRONGLY encourage everyone to consider their stuff NOT safe just because they live in a valley.
If you live in a valley and you cant get very good TV reception… but you can get AM radio OK.. this would tell me you will get LESS higher frequencies .. but you are not shadowed from low frequencies. This is mentioned above.. and I would agree completely. But do NOT think living in a valley protects you.
I have many comments on EMP.. and Faraday boxes/cages.. suggest reading thru them.
BillH, you seem to have a good understanding of all this.. does this not resonate with you?
I certainly agree that different wave lengths function differently and bounce or not under different conditions. So I would not absolutely rule out the possibility of EMP bouncing.
However, it actually seems unlikely to be a significant effect in practice. Presumably only a narrow band of frequencies would bounce, so the power would be greatly reduced. But more important, as I stated above, you only get EMP from an atomic bomb which explodes above the atmosphere. And it is the upper surface of the atmosphere off of which normal radio signals bounce. So if there was bouncing, it would be most likely to send a little of the radiation into space which would otherwise have hit the earth rather than sending it another “skip” around the earth.
Finally, science is all about building theories from observed phenomena. Not the other way around. Saying that you know exactly how an incompletely known process works because you understand the theory is hubris. Actual high altitude atomic bomb tests did not result in EMP traveling around the world, which would have occurred had any significant bouncing of the waves had taken place. Which largely rules out bouncing to reach into valleys.
(There is a kinda exception, not related to this discussion. Centering at a point in the other hemisphere, due South (or North) at the same distance from the equator, there is a less powerful but similar EMP “echo” event. It is the bending of the Earth’s magnetic field (or more, the snapping back of the field) which is the root of much of the effects. Since the lines go from the magnetic North Pole to the magnetic South Pole, forcing a line East in the Northern Hemisphere forces the bottom half of the line West in the Southern. So an EMP attack on the US will have impacts in South America.)
Bottom line, I am unaware of any direct tests of my “valley theory”. So don’t bet you life on it. But it does seem consistent with collected data.
While its been quite a while since we discussed this, another comment brings me back here… and reading the history.. well, Im not sure if you understood what I was saying about bounce of HF frequencies found in EMP…
I am not suggesting an EMP would go around the world by bounce.. but like any HF bounce (or “skip”), it would likely bounce at least a time or even a few times… but eventually attenuate out. One example of EMP .. was Starfish Prime.. almost a thousand miles from Hawaii .. back in about 1958 or so. It knocked our some electrical systems in Hawaii.
As with the Geomagnetic field around the earth.. I would say “Spot on!” There are two different.. “types” of radio waves.. electrostatic and electromagnetic. The latter tends to be seen more with HF. And VHF/UHF tends to be more in the former. Mostly, this from observation. I think its very possible that radio waves don’t really “travel” as much as they make impressions on the geomagnetic sphere around us.. disturbing the geomagnetic field.. and in its recovery, the ripple effect is how our radio waves “travel”. Not unlike those string of steel balls on strings; The end ball strikes the series of balls and the other end instantly responds. This is how electricity “flows”. An actual electron may only travel in a copper conductor a few inches in a second.. but its ENERGY travels at close to the speed of light.
Now, this is just something Iv been tinkering with in trying to understand some of the physics of radio. Its only a theory!
But yes, I wouldn’t feel safe.. just because you live in a valley!
As for why I came to make a comment.. It was another commenting about some non-sense Iv read about bravado, some comments with folks one-up’ing who is better, city folk or country folk.
My previous comments were.. if this is where we are, we are already defeated. Protect your supplies, yes, but threatening one another..?? We need to HELP one another as much as we can. Not being stupid.. but like said may times.. Divided we fall..
All I know is this… EMP hits us…my grown children and I have a place to meet. I live in Ft Worth Texas and my daughter and family live in Wichita Falls Texas. As soon as we know for sure, I will walk two miles to my son’s house…..he and I will set off to Wichita falls so we all are able to know where each other are. It’s 19 hours to walk there. My son-in-law is a retired Major in the Air Force and did extensive survival for pilots. They have a pool for water …and all the guns and ammo you would need. Trying to buy a pre computer car, preferably a truck. But it’s something….
I have some acreage here with a small lake on my property. Some one before me had a serious security complex. I have a 6ft chain link fence with 3 rows of barbwire on top all the way around my property. You can jump the fence ( lol ) come uo the drive way or swim the lake. Either and all ways. I can see you coming and have lots of ammo. I live very close to a fed prison. I was told I need to join the meighborhood watcch incase there is a prison break. I told them , I am good . I am good for ab0ut the first 150 of them. After that it becomes a reloading issue. !!!
I read your link. It suggests that 50% of Americans will die from a single high altitude nuclear-created EMP event over a period of many years. It does not suggest that EMP is unproven, nor that there is nothing to prepare for. To the contrary, it suggests that a long-term survivalist solution is required — not just food and water stored away, but potentially years of minimal supplies would require local self-sufficiency in food and water. And that survival will be possible, but it will depend on your resources and resourcefulness, and those of your community.
AMERICANS… That’s all of us. Why not seek to save as many of us as we could? Descending into provincial tribalism, and wanting to kill the ‘other’ from a city, not white, etc, betrays our ideals. Take those from the cities destroyed, use their skills and accept them into you communities. THAT will make you a patriot, a true American…
Feeding everyone that comes to your door will make you a dead patriot . If the roving mobs don’t kill you for your food you will soon starve.
Nobody’s talking about WANTING to kill “the other”, but we’ve all seen on the news how quickly law and order can break down in our cities, and how fast looting takes hold. In any event on this level, a lot of people from the cities are going to be trying to take what they can. If you have supplies, you better be ready to protect them or you won’t have them for long.
Well, the comments are better than the post this time around; there are as many opinions as there are people in this country.
If an EMP takes out our infrastructure, it’s gonna be UGLY for everyone. That’s my opinion.
Plan. Prepare. Pray.
I am new to this site and I have a question: We live in the downtown area of a city of about 1 million people in a very large and exposed home since it’s on a big public corner. My husband believes that we should buy a small rural home to escape to about an hour away in case of an EMP–he is afraid of looters, mob mentality when there is mass chaos, etc… and he thinks people will come straight to our neighborhood bc it’s the “wealthiest” and most desirable area for people who are desperate. He thinks we will all be dead and/or we’ll have 100 people squatting and living in our home. Do you all think buying a small, rural place that we could get to on a tank of gasoline is the thing to do? Or do we buy guns and just stay in our city home???
It is best to stay as far away from cities as possible. Once the inner city resources are gone, the hoards will move outward toward the suburbs until everything is gone. “Wealthy” neighborhoods will likely be first on the list of targets. A house can be replaced but a life cannot. Things are not worth dying for.
Whether you stay or go, you’ll need protection, so NOW is the time to invest in guns and ammo. You will also need to learn how to load, shoot, and care for them BEFORE it all goes south.
Your husband is right in wanting to get away but the trick is to know when to leave. If it is right after an EMP, will your vehicle even work? Most, if not all, modern engines will be fried. Even if it does work and you can leave, will the roads to your bugout location be blocked by vehicles that quit working as a result of the EMP? There will also be other things that could cause you to have to leave your home in the city other than an EMP. Just about any kind of societal collapse will be just as devastating. Expect the unexpected.
Whether you stay or go is entirely up to you. If I were you, I’d get out now. Sell the house and all the extra furniture and get that country location now while there is still time to get established. Have you ever planted a garden before? Usually a first-year garden fails. Do you know how to save seeds from one year to the next so you can plant another garden? Do you know how to preserve food? After a collapse of any kind, grocery stores will be virtually non-existent since most are in urban settings and more than likely, looted. Also, moving now will allow you to establish yourself with the “locals”. In rural settings, newcomers are met with a certain level of suspicion at first. When I moved to my current home in rural Appalachia, it took nearly ten years before I was no longer called “that person from Kentucky”.
Get out now while you can. We don’t know when the SHTF will happen and it definitely won’t be pretty when it does. No house is worth your life or those of your loved ones.
Your husband’s approach sounds solid as a response to EMP. As well as a response to a variety of other disasters. Obviously, not everyone has the money to buy a second home which will never be used. You might think about the possibility of choosing your second home so as to provide other value to you, such as a vacation home. You need an appropriate (to you) balance between your current life and your preparations for various possible emergencies.
Consider that you might have to walk (or bicycle) to your bug-out location; that your car might not work.
A relative or close friend about that far from the city could be an alternative solution. An RV could also have a role.
Bottom line, don’t give up your entire life in fear of things that might not occur. But don’t fail to make some plans for the unexpected either. And try to include multiple disasters in your planning, such as hurricanes and racial / political riots.
The article like so many contains fake doom. After the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster, all US nuke plants were required to develop systems that are off grid (usually steam powered by the reactor itself) to cool the plant preventing any meltdowns, etc.
So much of this info is no longer correct or never really was correct in the first place.
So you really need to do your own research and not rely on the info these articles.
It’s sad to see how divided human’kind’ is.
I’m not even American, but live here with my US husband. This country is beautiful and I hope our (human) ignorance doesn’t completely destroy it and the rest of the world. I hope people don’t despise each other just because some are un/lucky enough to live at a certain locality; after all, it’s no all by choice. E.g., I wish I lived in a rural area where I would feel even more at home, but it doesn’t seem to happen/be possible (yet). That’s why I try to do and act my best in the city I am now.
I hope people will be what we used to be, welcoming other humans (though cautiously until they know they’re safe), even when times ‘suck’.
I know some desperate people might bash my head in one day when life gets tough and food & water run out, but still hope there is a chance for survival and coexistance, at least until it the ‘SHTF’.
What we have lost is the understanding that we’re all in it together. Religions aren’t wrong about this. After all, we all share the same DNA (maternal DNA) – at least until it’s mutated by the nonsense we allow to happen (e.g., 5G frequencies).
Anyway. What a lively discussion. May peace with us. Bless you all.
The divide goes beyond the religious, sex orientation and other cultural hot button topics all over the news to the core belief many people on this forum think has been lost. That core belief is be a benefit to society as a whole versus a drag on society. I agree the rural areas will be able to support themselves best after any event. I also know anyone who comes to rural areas and asks for help will be given all that can be spared with smiles and friendship. Conversely anyone who comes to a rural area “demanding help” or tries to take items by force will be met with strong resistance. Basic rural life rules are; ask for knowledge and share knowledge, work to help yourself before asking for a handout, if you truly need help ask for it respectfully, and give help to those that truly need it.
Why in hell all the “I got more than you” bravado? Instead of all these little enclaves of rural militia-types, why can’t we band together. Or haven’t you heard ? United we stand, divided we fall. C.mon Americans, let’s save our country together.
Welcome to Indian Country. To the libs, that’s us. Like Dr. Sowell wrote in a hit piece on DNC pets, the African Americans and white neonazis, Rednecks of the South: Black and White. Safest place to be is where guns are common. the most deadly, where neolibs enacted gun control like their master Hitler, did to the Jews. niio
Trying to explain things like wave forms on this site is a challenge but going to try!
Look up a “square wave” folks on Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave.
For those who need the tech, its there. But for those who just need a basic understanding, there is some good stuff as well. Some very good graphics to picture what Iv been trying to say for some time.
Down in the lower section on right of this line page is one very good graphic I like. It shows a sine wave.. and as they add harmonics to it the sine wave begins to “square up”. A square wave is a combination of, actually, infinite harmonic frequencies. You might note the higher the harmonics go, the smaller they get. But not all variations are square wave.. and likewise you can look them up as well.. and you will find these waveforms are similar in what makes them up.
What identifies your voice from others? Your voice is itself a combination of different waveforms combined, different harmonics. ALL these pulses.. are made up of various frequencies combined to make that pulse. So, the pulse IS a combination of various frequencies all added into on waveform. Fortunately, these waveforms come from a non-oscillating event. This is what makes the pulse, but the waveform itself .. the pulse..is made in this way. If you run this as an electronic waveform, you can filter out frequencies.. attenuate to reduce the higher as they are going to be more reactive in an inductive network, as mentioned previously. When you look at 2pi F L.= 6.28 x FREQUENCY x inductance. The higher the frequency, the higher level of attenuation for those frequencies. This is how audio speakers separate the input sound for woofer and tweeter (using a capacitor along with the inductor to feed the squarer part of the waveform to send to the tweeter and the more rounder part of the wave to be reproduced by woofer. You can easily hear this by listing closely to speakers with a “cross over” network.
Now, once you understand that the pulse is a combination of frequencies, and at that, radio waves, understand.
As electrons travel, they create a magnetic wave at 90 degrees from the direction of travel. This is demonstrated with the “Left Hand rule” however, individuals can look into that on their own as well. Suffice that as an establishment of the magnetic (radio) wave. These radio waves act… well, just like radio waves because they ARE radio waves.
Look up Compton electrons as well. These are electrons that are utterly stripped off of atoms by the nuclear explosion. There are huge amounts.. and all these electrons traveling will create that huge wave (EMP). Being so high up in an HEMP, you start dealing with the geo-magnetic field. Personally, I believe there are many potential effects that can aid an EMP to cover wider areas. But Im getting out on a limb here on how it functions..
Higher frequencies will be absorbed far more easily then lower frequencies. What carries better from a sound system? Look how much better the higher frequencies are absorbed! But as they bounce, each time they leave some of their energy behind (absorbed).
Using the word “Skip”.. in radio isnt always the same as reflecting…
OK. Enough for now! Hope this helps folks…