Firearms for Emergency and SHTF Situations

Larry Hurth
By Larry Hurth May 28, 2019 08:19

Firearms for Emergency and SHTF Situations

Editor’s Note: This article was gladly contributed by one of our beloved readers, Larry. He is a Vietnam veteran, retired law enforcement, CPP (highest recognized level of security professional); was Director of Security for a Fortune 500 company; and served with several federal agencies (FEMA, FPS, ICE, CBP). Larry was involved in several shooting situations, from war to law enforcement to international terrorism. He is currently retired.

Having read a lot of opinions about firearms and having some experience with many types of situations, I’d like to ask you all to read the following and determine for yourselves which firearm best fits your situation. I do not hold myself out as an expert but only offer my own opinion on firearms for emergency and SHTF situations.

The best firearm is the one you have with you when you need one. It’s cliché but true. Training and practice before you need to use deadly force will account for a portion of what you’ll need in a life-or-death situation.

You will also need the will to defend yourself or loved one to shoot or kill another human being. Keep in mind that the mental anguish after a shooting can be compounded by legal proceedings, which can cost a lot to defend yourself even if it’s 100% justified.

Each state has different firearm laws and regulations, so choosing a firearm for your own use and your own foreseeable need should take priority over whatever optimum firearm any “expert” recommends.

Personally, I shy away from weapons that appear to be military or “tactical” even though I can see a need if there is a complete breakdown in society and a black plastic weapon is needed. Appearing to be a military fanatic does you no good in court. If I need one, I’ll pick one up from someone unable to use it.

There is no replacement for common sense and good judgement in an emergency. Your brain is your most formidable weapon, so learn to use it in both a defensive and offensive mind-set to survive and thrive.

Mental conditioning is the key to keeping you focused and in control. Avoiding panic and reacting almost automatically with good judgement and common sense to gunfire, explosions, gas attacks, fire, etc., are a result of good training and the optimum reactions to any emergency. If you have ever been in a car wreck or other emergency situation and everything appeared to be in slow motion, prepare your mind to experience that again.

Every situation will be different, but don’t expect a zombie apocalypse like in a video game. If it comes to large groups becoming a threat, they will learn to use military-type tactics to attack.

According to FBI statistics, most shootings involve between two and three shots to effectively end a self-defense situation, so most handguns or shotguns would be appropriate with proper ammunition. In a more intense SHTF situation, with lawlessness, roving gangs, or riot conditions, two or three shots may just be the beginning of the fight.

Now let’s address some common handgun misconceptions:

Firearms for Emergency and SHTF Situations#1. While not my first choice for every emergency, a single-action firearm is better than nothing. There are some true experts with single actions that are both quick and accurate. They are chambered in many useable calibers, from the lowly 22 rim fire up to the most powerful calibers, including some rifle calibers. If this is the only handgun available to you, learn to use it, and it will serve you quite well for many years.

Many old-style revolvers are not safe with all cylinders loaded, so these should be loaded with an empty chamber under the hammer.

Newer firearms have a transfer bar that is only put into position to fire when the trigger is pulled, and it is safe to load all chambers. They are slower to reload than double-action and semi-auto pistols. Older models may need some TLC as springs are subject to wear and tear and may even break.

Newer models, like Ruger makes, are very strong and, if kept clean, will serve several generations without fail. Some are available with two cylinders for optimal ammunition use. Easily changeable cylinders like 357 mag to 9mm, 45 ACP to 45 Colt, or 44 Special to 44-40 offer a wide field of ammunition to choose from.

They can be both powerful and reliable if kept clean and serviceable. If you have an older weapon that you aren’t sure about firing, have a competent gunsmith check it out. Many single actions are used for hunting and can take large game. Check with your state laws.

Related: What To Do When Gun Control Gets Really Bad

Firearms for Emergency and SHTF Situations#2. Double-action revolvers are also chambered in many calibers. They have served in both military and police roles for over a century. They offer reliability, and one trigger pull results in two actions (cock the hammer and fire).

They are easier to reload than single actions, especially with speed loaders. With a little practice, they can be reloaded in the dark simply by feel. Revolvers are also both powerful and reliable if kept clean and serviceable.

Firearms for Emergency and SHTF Situations#3. Semi-autos are quite popular. Some from quality gunmakers are quite reliable; others, like some cheap imported copies, are not quite so good. Normally, they are slower to get back into action if a malfunction occurs.

Practice with your firearm makes all the difference in learning to clear a jam and return the firearm to full function. Most “malfunctions” are not the gun’s fault but the user, who forgets to chamber a round or fails to effectively disengage a safety.

Related: DIY Gun Solvent

#4. A muzzle flash is a product of powder still burning as it leaves the muzzle of the firearm. In the dark, this destroy the eyes’ ability to quickly recover, but it does light up a potential target for an instant. Soldiers and police have been taught to shoot in the dark with this technique. It does have a drawback, however, in that it gives the shooter’s position away.

#5. The type and style of a firearm are important to know so that the user understands how to use it and feels comfortable using that make and model. The bottom line in any shooting is bullet placement (accuracy) and bullet performance.

I’d suggest buying cheaper ammunition so that there are more opportunities to practice with it and then more expensive “personal defense” ammunition to take into consideration bullet performance.

#6. Overpenetration (rounds going through multiple walls) with the unintended consequence of hurting someone in the next room or apartment or outside should always be a consideration. Intimate knowledge of the ammunition you are using is key to keeping innocent bystanders safe.

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Larry Hurth
By Larry Hurth May 28, 2019 08:19
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57 Comments

  1. miner May 28, 13:33

    If you plan on using whatever ammo you can find after SHTF for hunting, not personnel defense, you might consider the Thompson Contender. It has many different caliber barrels that can be switched, for multiple calibers.
    Just saying…

    Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper May 29, 02:41

      Miner,

      If you plan on using whatever ammo you can find after SHTF for hunting, not personnel defense, you might consider the Thompson Contender.

      I’ll second that!!!
      I’ve been using a T/C Contender for more than 2 decades and I love mine. With the .22 RF barrel you can practice on the cheap. The 7 mm TCU barrel works great for metallic silhouette although my old eyes don’t work so well for that anymore. The 5.56 14” bull barrel has eliminated more than a few groundhogs over the years, and is just plain fun to shoot. With a long eye relief scope mounted on the .357 magnum barrel I’ve taken a few deer over the years without having to pack a lot of heavy kit into the woods.
      In a pinch the 5.56 barrel can reach out and touch someone, with higher muzzle velocity and energy than most black rifles using that same cartridge, since it’s a sealed breech system with no wasted gas.

      Reply to this comment
      • left coast chuck May 29, 21:58

        In addition, one can put a shoulder stock on a 16.25″ Contender barrel and have a single shot rifle. However, putting a shoulder stock on a less than 16″ barrel will earn you a Go Directly To Jail, Do Not Collect $200 card.

        There is also the odd ruling that one can put a 16.25 barrel and shoulder stock on a Contender that was originally purchased as a handgun but one cannot put a pistol grip on a Contender that was purchased as a rifle even if it has a 21″ barrel.

        Nobody ever said the law has to be logical or make sense. Please do not take this post as legal advice. I am not a lawyer. Do not portray one in the entertainment business and personally that would not be my first choice for a career if I were starting out again.

        Most jurisdictions that are aghast at owning an “assault weapon” have made having a bayonet mount on your rifle one of the significant indications that you possess an instrument of the devil.

        I have a close relative who spent 25 years in the local Public Defender’s Office after several years in private practice defending clients with money and he has informed me that the PD Office in his 25 years there never defended a case where it was alleged that the defendant had a bayonet mounted on his rifle during a robbery. In fact, he has stated that to the best of his knowledge, while admitting that he hasn’t tracked every felony case in the office, the PD Office has never had a case where a bayonet was used in any fashion. Thousands of stabbing and cutting cases involving a wide variety of cutting instruments, but no bayonets. How our masters got hung up on bayonets is a mystery to many of us who are interested in firearms and accessories.

        Reply to this comment
        • The Ohio Prepper May 30, 19:06

          left coast chuck,

          In addition, one can put a shoulder stock on a 16.25″ Contender barrel and have a single shot rifle. However, putting a shoulder stock on a less than 16″ barrel will earn you a Go Directly To Jail, Do Not Collect $200 card.

          Yep. That is the famous one that made it clear up to SCOTUS: United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Company in 1992.
          BATFE, contacted Thompson Center Arms informing them that the kit of the Contender Pistol that included a stock and a 16-inch barrel constituted a short-barreled rifle under NFA.

          SCOTUS ruled in Thompson Center Arms’ favor, that the carbine conversion kit did not constitute a short-barreled rifle, because the kit contained both the stock and the 16-inch barrel. As part of the argument, Justice O’Connor asked a very pertinent and embarrassing question of the BATF.
          If I have both a shotgun and a hacksaw in my home, does that violate NFA since I >strong>could make an SBR?
          I would have loved to see that tap dance. LOL

          There is also the odd ruling that one can put a 16.25 barrel and shoulder stock on a Contender that was originally purchased as a handgun but one cannot put a pistol grip on a Contender that was purchased as a rifle even if it has a 21″ barrel.

          That may be technically accurate; but, not as obvious as the converse and I suspect ignored all of the time, since seeing a long barreled handgun will not arouse any suspicions.

          Most jurisdictions that are aghast at owning an “assault weapon” have made having a bayonet mount on your rifle one of the significant indications that you possess an instrument of the devil.

          That and of course the evil >strong>pistol grip

          How our masters got hung up on bayonets is a mystery to many of us who are interested in firearms and accessories.

          It’s no mystery. It’s just the old divide & conquer. I have that neat semi-auto shotgun, that is not black, has no bayonet lug and is therefore, at least in my mind, not an assault weapon, so I don’t really pay attention to what’s going on with those other guys and their guns, at least until the laws are passed and I find out my little shotgun is now on the forbidden list.
          It’s the same obfuscation where no politician mentions ”Gun Control”, now only talking about ”Gun Safety”
          And they wonder why we oppose everything they try, as we perceive it as that camel’s nose under the tent, which it is.
          Eternal vigilance IS the cost of freedom.

          Reply to this comment
        • Raven tactical May 30, 19:11

          You can put a brace on almost anything these days. Hense pistol ar rules the world

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          • The Ohio Prepper May 30, 23:41

            Raven tactical,

            You can put a brace on almost anything these days. Hense pistol ar rules the world

            The AR pistol as well as others like the the SIG Sauer MPX pistol are nice guns; but, just don’t get caught placing the end of that brace on your shoulder. LOL

            Reply to this comment
          • Raven tactical May 30, 23:52

            To ohio fudd gun guy. Shouldering a brace is legal…… again glad fudd NRA instructor trainers are out spreading false information

            Reply to this comment
            • The Ohio Prepper May 31, 10:15

              Raven tactical,

              To ohio fudd gun guy. Shouldering a brace is legal…… again glad fudd NRA instructor trainers are out spreading false information

              You must be a fun guy to be around with no sense of humor or sense of irony, or perhaps the LOL on my statement didn’t serve the need to spread your own version of FUD (Fear Uncertainty & Doubt) and dislike of the NRA.
              I full well know the history of the pistol brace and it would serve you better to educate people than to simply denigrate those with whom you may not share an opinion
              In January 2015 the ATF released an open letter stating that the act of placing an AR-15 pistol on the shoulder constituted a redesign of the firearm, turning it into an unregistered SBR. You could fire a brace-equipped pistol from your hip, your chest, etc; but, fire it from the shoulder, and you’re committing a felony.
              That was later corrected; but, still has an odd restriction, only the government could envision as logical, where modification of the brace, including simple removal of the wrist strap, renders it into s statutory SBR.

              If someone needs training and all they have is a revolver, or a single shot rifle, or even a muzzle loading firearm (used to hunt deer in Ohio) I am quite capable and willing to train them.

              BTW, if you don’t like the NRA, then don’t support them; but, like its other 5,000,000+ members, I will continue to do so.
              I consider this matter closed.

              Reply to this comment
          • Claude Davis June 15, 04:06

            AR pistols are toys and no serious shooter would bother with one. If you want a pistol, get a gun that was DESIGNED as a pistol; it’ll do a much better job of it. If you want an AR, get one with a full-length barrel. Unless you’re in the military and looking at spending a lot of time doing room clearance there’s no sense in getting any less than a 20″ barrel. I’ll take that extra muzzle velocity every time.

            Reply to this comment
            • Raven tactical June 15, 04:13

              Dumbest comment with no factual backing goes to you.

              Pistol ar work well under 150 meters all the way down to cab. They run smooth work well and yeah a little loss in fps vs easy to move and operate in home/car/ yard works. I personally ran mine in carbine classes. I built several for women who now can run and gun. Where the big rifle didn’t work at all.

              Dude even the military m4 is 14.7 inches and some sf guys run 7 inch.

              Clearly you have no clue what your talking about.

              Reply to this comment
            • Raven tactical June 15, 04:32

              I guess here’s the second reply a pistol ar vs glock 17… are we seriously thinking that the glock will out perform the ar…

              I truly hope you understand it’s a way to avoid a sbr tax.

              Reply to this comment
        • Raven tactical May 31, 09:15

          Because more people fear a bayonet then the bullet. Civilians have no clue and very few military would understand it. Bayonet charges in wR were extremely rare

          Reply to this comment
          • scrooster June 1, 04:18

            3eyed Raven Tacticool is clearly a rump ranger assclown. STFU Raven Tacticool. You were given too much leash and you still managed to step over the line. You’ve managed to insult this website, the author, other members of this community, grammar teachers everywhere, the military, the NRA, Vets and your mother who by now has got to be ashamed that she ever brought your knowitall punk ass onto the face of this earth. So just stfu will you please before some of us old timer ex-contractor, former airborne military types have to come out of the woodwork and really shut you down publicly. And it’s not like we disagree with you about everything although revolvers are far more inherently reliable …. we’ve all run more immediate action drills and hand sweeps and Jack and pops with semis than you`ll ever dream of having to do under fire … so we get it. But we despise reading your incessant rantard holier than thow bravo Sierra crap day after day after day to the point where we are all thinking of unsubscribing to this forum. So just do us all a favor and stfu slick. Go play soldier or something lulz, just leave the rest of us alone..

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            • Raven tactical June 1, 11:08

              Do me a favor and go buy yourself a folded flag and go suck start your 1911.

              I insulted the military….yeah no

              I insulted the NRA well tough shit they are supporting gun control.

              Anyway congratulations on your accomplishments and nobody cares

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            • Lonnie Hopson June 6, 15:02

              Hey, scrotum, some of us aren’t blow hard braggarts, like YOU. Why don’t you practice what you preach…”just leave the rest of us alone..!”

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  2. scrooster May 28, 13:47

    Author nailed it. Short, sweet and to the point. Shoot what you’re good with, what you’re confident with and with what you can afford to practice practice practice with.

    Reply to this comment
  3. Will May 28, 14:31

    The Taurus Judge is My Personal Favorite. With ‘Chamber Adapters’, this double action revolver can handle a total of 9 different Caliber/Type Shells.
    410 Shot Shell
    45LC
    38SPL
    9mm
    380
    32 H&R Mag
    32 S&W Long or Short
    22 Hornet
    22 LR
    They are 2.5″ Smoothbore, thus not the greatest in accuracy but, Scavengers can’t be Choosers.

    Reply to this comment
  4. Ace May 28, 14:43

    Thanks

    Reply to this comment
  5. MommaMary May 28, 15:46

    Thank you for an informative, helpful article. I have read so many that tell you that you. ” must” have this or that weapon if you’re going to survive. They never suggest practice, taking you weapon to a gunsmith or buying cheaper ammo for practice while having higher quality ammo for the real deal. Thank you again for a down to earth, straightforward article.

    Reply to this comment
  6. left coast chuck May 28, 17:29

    Good common sense article. In addition to chamber adaptors for the Taurus Judge, there are chamber adaptors available for a variety of firearms. The first that comes to mind is a single shot shotgun. One can buy adaptors for a wide variety of calibers. These adaptors are rifled so that they act just like a long barreled pistol. I feel, although I have not personally verified it, that the sound of the shot may be somewhat attenuated using a chamber adaptor.

    The downside of using a chamber adapter for a pistol cartridge in a single barrel or double barrel shotgun is sighting. The bead sight on the front of most budget single shot shotguns is not conducive to minute of angle performance. One can perhaps figure out where one must aim in order to hit the target with practice. There are sights that slide onto the barrel that improve the brass bead sight. I have a dayglo green sight on my single barrel shotgun. It just slides right onto the barrel and there is a notch for the longer sight to fit on the bead sight so that you have it correctly aligned with the barrel. I’m certainly no gunsmith, but even I found it incredible easy to install.

    One can also buy chamber adaptors for rifles. For instance a .32 acp adaptor for a .30-06. Why in the world would one want to change a .30-06 to a .32 acp? Well, the report of a .32 acp round from a .30-06 rifle is considerably less than the report of even a reduced charge .30-06. There are some circumstances where that would be desirable. In addition, there is less meat damage in shooting small game with a .32 acp than with even a light bullet, reduced charge .30-06.

    It just depends on individual circumstances. I only mention these alternatives in case the reader is not familiar with their existence. If you want to do further research, put in “chamber adaptors” in Google search.

    The big advantage of chamber adaptors is that they are considerably cheaper than purchasing another firearm.

    Reply to this comment
    • Claude Davis June 15, 07:15

      A chamber adapter that I don’t think has been mentioned yet is a .22LR conversion kit for an AR15. In my opinion this is a great idea. It lets you use .22LR for plinking and practice, or use the rifle for small game where .223 is overkill. Because the AR15 is essentially a .22 anyway you don’t need a barrel liner and can take advantage of the full length of the barrel. All the controls and drills are the same as you’re used to. And since .22LR is about the most plentiful round in the USA, you shouldn’t run short of ammo for a while.

      Reply to this comment
      • Raven tactical June 15, 11:32

        Why not just buy a dedicated 22 upper. The conversion kit is neat but excessive use fowls the gas tube and lead lines the throat.

        Reply to this comment
        • Yosemite August 17, 02:47

          Cost?
          The USAF uses those adapters for training OR DID saving the cost of 5.56×45 NATO.

          The price of a complete upper vs the cost of a conversion kit in the AR is onl replace the bolt and a different magazine.
          For a dedicated .22LR I suggest the Ruger 10/22 and for a little more spend the extra $$$$ and get the Take Down version and some 25-30 round magazines. .There are higher capacity magazines bur that is your decision..I have some old Ram Line mags that I really like. They are double stack and more compact.They snap together ( I recommend adding a wrap around of duct tape to secure them) The ones I have, have the red follower/ feeder and no issues with them and that adds up to 60 rounds in a light compact carry.
          These are only suggestions and recommendations and my preferences and what works for me.
          You (anyone) have your own likes/wants and needs to decide what works for you.

          Reply to this comment
      • Yosemite August 17, 01:18

        One buy .22LR conversion kits for the Ruger Mini-14 chambered in .223 and there are .22LR kits for the 1911 for training purposes……also makes your 1911 a good weapon for small game and can quickly be converted back to .45 ACP.

        Reply to this comment
      • The Ohio Prepper August 18, 01:41

        Claude,

        A chamber adapter that I don’t think has been mentioned yet is a .22LR conversion kit for an AR15. In my opinion this is a great idea. It lets you use .22LR for plinking and practice, or use the rifle for small game

        I sold my AR-15’s a while back; but, I had the CMMG conversion. It consists of a replacement bolt & spring assembly and special magazines.
        The bolt has a rim fire firing pin and the weaker springs allow the lower recoil to operate the rifle quite reliably.
        It actually works rather well with subsonic ammunition.

        Reply to this comment
    • Yosemite August 17, 02:15

      The .32 ACP has diameter of .312 there abouts.
      The 30.06 has a diameter of roughly.308. A smaller diameter barrel so how does one squeeze a larger bullet down the smaller bore?? I know Sabot rounds were made to fire a .223 bullet in the 30.06 and other caliber rifles.

      Reply to this comment
  7. Cedar Savage May 29, 02:32

    i’m a 12 gauge with double ought buckshot kinda fellow.

    Reply to this comment
  8. The Ohio Prepper May 29, 03:24

    I’ll admit that when I first saw the title, I had that, “Here we go again” thought; but, I was then pleasantly surprised.
    I’ve been shooting for nearly 60 years, and have been an NRA trainer for nearly 30 years, and have to say that this article really hits the mark.

    You will also need the will to defend yourself or loved one to shoot or kill another human being. Keep in mind that the mental anguish after a shooting can be compounded by legal proceedings, which can cost a lot to defend yourself even if it’s 100% justified.

    The mental attitude does take some thought; but, one thing that helped me were the ”Bulletproof Your Mind” seminars presented by Dave Grossman. I’ve seen him live 2 times; but, you can find those same seminars on YouTube. Personally I found the live seminars a bit better, since you are surrounded by fellow Sheepdogs in training and Grossman’s presentation has a real effect on you.
    For an introduction to the concept, read this short excerpt from Grossman’s book: “on Combat”
    On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

    https://www.killology.com/sheep-wolves-and-sheepdogs

    For the aftermath, I would recommend insurance like that offered by NRA Carry Guard or USCCA (United States Concealed Carry Association)
    When you pull that trigger, you stop one threat, and then probably enter into another, so having a legal team and financial backing can quite literally, save your hide.

    Newer models, like Ruger makes, are very strong and, if kept clean, will serve several generations without fail. Some are available with two cylinders for optimal ammunition use. Easily changeable cylinders like 357 mag to 9mm, 45 ACP to 45 Colt, or 44 Special to 44-40 offer a wide field of ammunition to choose from.

    I purchased my Ruger Blackhawk in .357 more than 20 years ago, and the 9 mm cylinder was no longer available even then; but, my first handgun, a Single Six has both the .22 RF & .22 WMR cylinders and is still in production today. It’s a fun gun to shoot.

    Double-action revolvers are also chambered in many calibers. They have served in both military and police roles for over a century. They offer reliability, and one trigger pull results in two actions (cock the hammer and fire).

    While semi-autos are the go to gun for many shooters who carry, those who only carry a revolver have much less training and practice to be effective. When a semi auto goes click instead of bang, there are many reasons it could have happened, all of which take lots of practice to effectively clear and get back into the fight. On the revolver you cimply pull the trigger again. Too many people think they ”need” all those extra rounds; but, as you stated, generally only a few will do. I’ve often told students who “need” to cary several large magazines with them, that if they ever needed all that ammunition, they are probably in over their heads.

    Semi-autos are quite popular. Some from quality gunmakers are quite reliable; others, like some cheap imported copies, are not quite so good. Normally, they are slower to get back into action if a malfunction occurs.

    At a minimum, when carrying one of these, you should practice with the ball & dummy technique. Have someone else load your magazine with live ammunition and sprinkle in one or more “dummy” cartridges. When you run your practice session, all of a sudden that dummy will be in the breach and the gun will go “click”. That’s your clue to clear the jam and get back into the fight. With practice you can do this, barely missing a beat; but, in real life with no solid practice, you may just stand there as a target, scratching your head in the “Oh Crap” moment.

    Overpenetration (rounds going through multiple walls) with the unintended consequence of hurting someone in the next room or apartment or outside should always be a consideration. Intimate knowledge of the ammunition you are using is key to keeping innocent bystanders safe.

    Another key thing here is Situational Awareness.
    Gun safety rule #4 is “Know your target & beyond”, and once that bullet leaves the muzzle, it becomes your responsibility.

    Reply to this comment
    • left coast chuck May 29, 22:10

      Ohio: Except for the .22/.22WMR, all of those multi-cylinder Rugers were a special run commissioned by Lipsey’s, a major wholesaler for Ruger. To the best of my knowledge they were: .357/9mm; 45acp/.45 Colt; .41 mag/10mm; .32 H&R mag./.32-20. There may be other combinations that I am not aware of. Lipsey’s has been well known for commissioning special runs where they contract to purchase the whole run from Ruger. I don’t know the minimum number of guns Ruger requires for a special run, but most gun manufacturers have in the past created special runs for big customers.

      Each of those variations to my knowledge are at least 20 years old and perhaps even older. I think there have been some more recent special runs for Lipsey’s. I know from what I have read that Lipsey’s has ordered a Ruger Bisley in .327 Federal. It is currently at your gunshop if they are a Lipsey dealer or can be ordered from Lipsey’s if you are interested. Nice feature of the .327 Federal is that it can fire .327 Federal, ..32 H&R magnum, .32 S&W Long and .32 S&W short. I don’t believe it can fire .32 Colt but I don’t know if one can even find .32 Colt in stock anywhere except some real old-timey gun store that has been in existence for about a hundred years — and the ammo may be nearly a hundred years old too.

      Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper August 18, 01:55

      Another long gun that has not been mentioned are the over under combinations. As a teen I cut my teeth on hunting with a Savage Over Under in .22 / .410 and now own two of the model 24’s in .22 / .410 & .22 WMR / 20 gauge.
      I’ve used them for hunting everything from rabbit & squirrel to white tail deer.
      The .410 is essentially a rifle caliber that can accurately reach out and touch something at distance.

      Reply to this comment
  9. MKS May 29, 10:27

    You know, I understand people love guns. I do too. But, the same old articles over, and over, again gets old. There are as many opinions are there are gun lovers. Naturally, my opinion is the only correct one ;-). Let have something new to read about. Or at least get into some depth.
    This is like EMP every one has an opinion. get more creative or informative.

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  10. MS May 29, 10:38

    What to do when gun control get really bad………..Nothing it’s too late. You need to have ‘official’ guns and ‘off the record’ guns. This way, you can continue to purchase ammo with relative immunity. When they come for your guns, they will check them against what ammo you have purchased and if they don’t agree, they will come down hard on you. If you do what I suggest, they will be happy with the ‘officially allocate guns’. Then you can keep your unlisted guns because they don’t know you have them somewhere else.

    Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper May 29, 16:09

      MS,

      You need to have ‘official’ guns and ‘off the record’ guns. This way, you can continue to purchase ammo with relative immunity.

      This is good advice, assuming you live in a jurisdiction where private sales and gifts are allowed, as mine does. Those private sales, often called ”the gun show loophole” by the prohibitionists are normal commerce that I have engaged in sinee receiving my first rifle for Christmas 56 years ago at age 12. I still have that rifle.

      When they come for your guns, they will check them against what ammo you have purchased and if they don’t agree, they will come down hard on you.

      Who are “they” and how do they know what ammunition I’ve purchased. When I purchase ammunition, except possibly by mail order, no one knows who I am or keeps track of what I bought.

      Reply to this comment
      • left coast chuck May 29, 21:43

        Ohio: Starting the first of June, 2019, in the PDRK in order to purchase ammunition, one will need a permission card from our masters. Each purchase will have to be approved by our masters’ lap dogs in Sacramento. So that is how “they” will know.

        If the fecal-brained politicians in Sacramento can think of a stupid idea, don’t kid yourself, like-minded politicians will soon glom onto that idea for their serfs. Look for Oregon, Washington, New York, Connecticut, Mass., New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware and perhaps some other pinko states to jump on the PDRK bandwagon and require permission slips to buy ammunition. The PDRK has already outlawed private party sales. That happened for guns more than twenty years ago.

        Of course that has cut down on criminals possessing guns. Now a days, cops almost never find felons in possession of firearms yuk yuk yuk. One of our pinko masters in Sacramento has introduced a bill to change felon in possession of a firearm from a felony to a low grade, non-violent misdemeanor. That means the felon the cops picked up with a 17 round Glock and two extra mags will get charged with a crime about equal to stealing a six-pack of beer from the Stop and Rob.

        The brain-dead voters of this state emasculated the three-strikes law in the last election in addition to voting in the ammunition goat rope. Now we get letters to the editor complaining about all the car burglaries and house burglaries in addition to, of course, the car jackings and home invasions. They wonder why.

        I may be forced to just say “to H with it” and move my wife out of state.

        Reply to this comment
        • Wannabe May 30, 16:04

          Dear God almighty please protect the good citizens of commiefornia. Yes left coast, they will beable to keep track of each bullet purchase because all the ammo you buy will have your name attached to it. And according to the ammo you buy they know what caliber gun you have. Not necessarily the model, but definitely the caliber. This is one more giant baby step to gun control in that state. I could not live there, I will not live there. Leave when you can.

          Reply to this comment
        • The Ohio Prepper August 19, 00:41

          left coast chuck,

          Ohio: Starting the first of June, 2019, in the PDRK in order to purchase ammunition, one will need a permission card from our masters.

          I heard that and the question in my answer alluded to that horrible law.
          Here in a free state we have no such regulations, and while concealed carry does require a license, the 8 hours training, nominal fee ($50.00 for 5 years) is no real burden to anyone that can afford a firearm, and enough ammunition to practice.
          As an instructor the 8 hours training was waved for my first license, and renewals only require you still hold a valid license.

          If the fecal-brained politicians in Sacramento can think of a stupid idea, don’t kid yourself, like-minded politicians will soon glom onto that idea for their serfs. Look for Oregon, Washington, New York, Connecticut, Mass., New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware and perhaps some other pinko states to jump on the PDRK bandwagon and require permission slips to buy ammunition.

          We have a large rural population and a legislature very in touch with our heritage and our ability to send them packing. Our CHL (Concealed Handgun License) has undergone numerous changes over the years, each making it a better law.

          The brain-dead voters of this state emasculated the three-strikes law in the last election in addition to voting in the ammunition goat rope. Now we get letters to the editor complaining about all the car burglaries and house burglaries in addition to, of course, the car jackings and home invasions. They wonder why.

          They say you get the government you ask for (or tolerate) and in you largest cities, I understand plague may be on the future menu.

          I may be forced to just say “to H with it” and move my wife out of state.

          Just your wife? LOL We may not have your perennially nice weather; but, our political climate is way better and we would welcome you.

          Reply to this comment
  11. Raven tactical May 29, 11:26

    Oh look the fudd response to the dreaded semi auto. The NRA fudd member with the why would you need more the. 4.5 rounds. Most gun fights are less then that. My response I’d rather 15 plus one 10mm and a spare mag then 6 shots from a antique revolver. Which their is a reason police and FBI and the military do not use them. Longer to reload and when they jam it’s really bad. 6 shots is pathetic when most people are panicking and miss. Secondly handguns suck and most people dont die right away. So a common thing is multiple threats attacking you. I dont want to play cowboy and Indian with a relic. I’ll use the 16 shots and get way more fire power.

    This fear of military and tactical weapons. Go get bent fudd. The pistol ar with a red dot makes one of the best home defense rifles for everyone and everysize

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    Reply to this comment
    • The Ohio Prepper May 29, 15:03

      Raven tactical,

      Oh look the fudd response to the dreaded semi auto. The NRA fudd member with the why would you need more the. 4.5 rounds. Most gun fights are less then that.

      I assume by your response that you are talking about my post and would ask that before you get on you high horse your at least read the post and understand it before adding words I didn’t put there.

      I never used the word dreaded and didn’t state that no one should eschew a semi-auto for a revolver; but, that would take someone with a clear head to actually read and understand the reply.
      All I said was that in nearly 30 years of training hundreds of new shooters, that mastering a semi auto in a stressful situation, especially with a malfunction, takes a lot of skill and practice, where a wheel gun is more forgiving in that same situation.
      I carry semi-autos myself; but, if it takes you 16 shots to call it firepower, then perhaps you’re one of those spray and pray folks who doesn’t practice seriously or often enough.

      This fear of military and tactical weapons. Go get bent fudd. The pistol ar with a red dot makes one of the best home defense rifles for everyone and everysize

      I have no fear of military and tactical firearms; but, I also don’t worship them as the be all & end all, substituting volume of fire for planning, training, and accuracy. In urban areas, where that little bullet can pass through numerous living spaces and do damage one didn’t intend you might need to rethink your selection, unless it’s what makes you feel important like many religious zealots, where believing takes the place of thinking.
      With that kind of attitude I suspect you would recommend that everyone should own an M1 Abrams for day to day travel

      Reply to this comment
      • Raven tactical May 29, 22:05

        Here we go the fudd response of if you need more then x rounds you need more training .

        Let’s face the reality we don’t use the 1911 and m1 garand because capacity is king. Handgun rounds are for the part terrible and people have unloaded a magazine into people and yet they still walk. So yes more bullet capacity allows for more time firing at the target. Now lets assume your also wrong when the typical invasion of the home involves multiple people. You recommend a six shooter which already blows against one target. Now that poor kid has to reload which also blows on a revolver and engage again. Vs a standard capacity 17 round is able yo put 3x the amount of lead down range before a reload. Of which is pretty quick and simple.

        The poor frail woman and man not able to master a semi auto is a joke. I have taken people who never shot anything and with in a few hours can work and shoot accurately and also clear a jam.

        You’re just one of those fuddly NRA lovers

        Reply to this comment
        • The Ohio Prepper May 30, 18:19

          Raven tactical,

          Here we go the fudd response of if you need more then x rounds you need more training .

          Do you not speak English? That is not at all what I said, so this time I will speak more slowly.
          For NEW inexperienced shooters, mastering a semi-auto under stressful conditions is a lot harder, requiring more training and experience to recover from a malfunction, that is also more likely than with a wheel gun.

          Let’s face the reality we don’t use the 1911 and m1 garand because capacity is king.

          That is correct, since the 5.56 and 9 mm are more than adequate cartridges for the battlefield, and weigh less, so the soldiers can carry more or be less fatigued.

          Handgun rounds are for the part terrible and people have unloaded a magazine into people and yet they still walk.

          This is mostly urban legend, since anything 9 mm or better scoring multiple impacts to center mass will stop all but the PCP hyped dope head, and those are unlikely attackers, at least where I live.

          So yes more bullet capacity allows for more time firing at the target.

          How much time do you need? The tueller drill proves that you only have 1.5 seconds to stop an attacker from a distance of 7 yards (21 feet), so unless you’re very skilled with any handgun, this is the limiting factor, regardless of capacity.

          Now lets assume your also wrong when the typical invasion of the home involves multiple people. You recommend a six shooter which already blows against one target.

          Good deflection!!! You change the subject from what to carry on the street to a home invasion.
          Also I never recommended a six shooter or even a wheel gun, just that mastering one is easier than a semi-auto for new shooters.
          For a home invasion, which never happen in my rural area, I would first be alerted by one of numerous perimeter alarm systems when someone came on the property. I always carry a semi-auto or have on close at hand, as I do as I’m typing this. I would then mostl likely grab a shotgun, with a Tactical semi-auto or pump, and start looking at the outside cameras.

          Now that poor kid has to reload which also blows on a revolver and engage again. Vs a standard capacity 17 round is able yo put 3x the amount of lead down range before a reload. Of which is pretty quick and simple.

          Pouring lead down range doesn’t mean much if you don’t hit your target. There is a thing on a gun called a ”New York Trigger” for a good reason, because all too often NYC LEO’s pour lead at a target, missing or barely wounding the intended and hitting buildings and innocent bystanders.
          If a 17 round magazine makes you feel secure, then by all means, use it. Personally I carry different firearms on different occasions, based on both the intended venue and the clothing I’m wearing. Normally I carry either a .380 auto (7+1 or 9+1) with two spare magazines or a 9 mm (16+1 or 18+1) with 1 or 2 spare magazines. Often I’ll also carry a wheel gun (5-shot) .38 special compact for additional backup.

          The poor frail woman and man not able to master a semi auto is a joke. I have taken people who never shot anything and with in a few hours can work and shoot accurately and also clear a jam.

          Who mentioned a poor frail person? Not me.
          Also, was that an intended jam and was it with or without stress?
          Try the ball & dummy technique so the shooter doesn’t know when or if the malfunction will occur, and then, when it does, stand next to them and scream in their ears, that they need to hurry or they are going to die, and see how well they still clear that jam and get the gun back into the fight. This is the type of realistic training everyone should have.

          You’re just one of those fuddly NRA lovers

          Not really; but, I am an NRA member, and as an instructor have trained a few thousand mostly new shooters over the past 25+ years.
          Also, as a training counselor, I have trained a few hundred new instructors over the past 20+ years.
          My opinions come from practical experience with hundreds of shooters.

          Is your ego so frail that if someone disagrees with you, you have to argue for your position?
          If you find something that works for you, then do it; but, please respect that others may do it just as well a different way. No harm. No Foul.

          Reply to this comment
          • Raven tactical May 30, 23:47

            So again I’ll say the 70s what their gun training back. The idea that training a new shooter on a semi auto is just bs. I and my business partner have trained plenty of new shooters on semi auto and under stress the handled it just fine. Much easier then relics like revolvers.

            Your entire premise of carrying a gun is for one type of situation….. that 1.5 second drill. Hey guess what you still refuse to accept that most attacks are in groups. So again capacity is king. And guess what you might and more then likey have engagements out side that situation.

            I laugh at the NRA and the members who back the gun grabbing sellout groups like the NRA. Just a true fudd organization

            Enjoy that narrow 70s mindset. I am sure when your busy backing gun bans it will seriously help out.

            Reply to this comment
      • Raven tactical May 30, 01:04

        I would recommend they drive whatever they want to . If you can afford the 2 to 4 gallons per mile then so be it drive a Abrams.

        Reply to this comment
        • Will May 30, 18:12

          Since this is an “SHTF” situation, why worry about what you can afford? “Drive it Like You STOLE It!!”. SHTF will equal Anarchy.

          Reply to this comment
          • The Ohio Prepper May 30, 23:35

            Will,

            Since this is an “SHTF” situation, why worry about what you can afford? “Drive it Like You STOLE It!!”. SHTF will equal Anarchy.

            Not necessarily. SHTF comes in many flavors. Last Monday night (Memorial Day 2019) severe weather worked its way through Ohio.
            We had a lot of wind and nearly 2 inches of rain; but, the power didn’t even flicker.
            The Dayton area, some 80+ miles southwest of me was hit by a cluster of at least 10 tornadoes, creating widespread damage and power outages.
            To us, it was a late night on the weather nets, listening to the NOAA weather radio and watching the radar; but, many in Dayton, saw it as a true EOTW, SHTF situation. Some lost roofs, some lost entire homes, and others are still without power.
            There was no anarchy, because there were regional assets that could help fill the void. Our county EMA, for which I volunteer, sent down a 500KW generator.
            SHTF depends on what, when, and where.

            Reply to this comment
            • left coast chuck June 2, 22:11

              Right on Ohio. I believe the wildfires that swept the PDRK in 2017 and 2018 certainly qualified as SHTF events for the folks who endured them. As well, the storms and floods that are occurring in the Midwest as I type this. If it is your mule that got killed, it certainly rates as a disaster for you even though the farmer in the next county isn’t even aware of it.

              The fire that swept through my neck of the woods in December 2017 was merely inconvenient for me. For the guy who presently is living next door, it was a disaster. The only things he was able to save were his motor vehicles, his pets and some clothing. Everything else was destroyed in the fire that burned his house to the ground. He had several fairly valuable guns destroyed in his gun safes, including a custom Franchi shotgun.

              Reply to this comment
      • Lonnie Hopson June 6, 15:11

        “everyone should own an M1 Abrams for day to day travel” that is really not that bad of an idea…especially if you drive in southern Commiefornia…lol

        Reply to this comment
  12. KickStart June 6, 20:41

    I guess I tend to agree that there are uses for both types of handguns (revolver & semiauto). I’m an experienced trained shooter with semi’s, and my wife carries a revolver. We live in suburban New Orleans with street crime always nearby.
    I prefer the .45 ACP because I believe in stopping power in a limited amount of space and time, and also ease of acquiring that round. No, I don’t need any more rounds than a stock 1911 can hold, but for competition I’ll use extended mags. Now I carry an XD for practical reasons. I’ve been professionally trained for combat situations.
    My wife has only basic shooting skills and is also fairly weak. She’s more adept and comfortable with a revolver because it requires less thought of mechanics, allowing for target acquisition and simply pulling the trigger. Her most constant threat is carjacking, followed by mugging. Her modern .45 ACP 5-shot revolver has the trigger reworked for lighter touch. It’s a point and shoot deal.

    @ Raven Tactifool, I’m typically not one to reply with insults, but reading your diatribes one after another finally got to me. I know I’m opening myself to attacks by you and it will be justified by my name calling. You come off as pigheaded and narrow minded. I don’t live by your rules; only what’s practical for me. There’s some basic truth in your words, and they apparently work for you, but they’re not the only truth for everybody else as you so stubbornly claim. I believe you should stfu until you drop your self-righteous attitude. Any possible wisdom you have to share with us is obscured by it.

    Reply to this comment
    • Raven tactical June 6, 21:16

      Stopping power…. a fun term used by 45 guys. 45 isnt a one shot one kill. This isn’t the movies where they all die after the trigger is pulled. Again you base your situation off of a lone single attacker where your going miss and hit 50 percent of the magazine into the target. So 7 rounds is silly much like the 1911 is a terrible carry gun.

      You been combat trained by whom ? Your wife should try the shield at least it’s a better pistol and easy to use.

      If this offends your tiny heart then u suggest growing some balls. You might find then in your wifes purse

      Reply to this comment
      • KickStart June 9, 21:28

        @ Raven Tactical
        “45 isn’t one shot one kill. This isn’t the movies”.
        After my combat training, I started going on wild boar hunts armed only my 1911 and a knife. I haven’t been brave enough to use a knife only like a few of the others. Since hunting men domestically is illegal (unless you’re LE), boar hunting is as close as it gets for me. They’re very aggressive and your life is on the line. No, they don’t shoot back, but they’re not intimidated by a gun. You cannot outrun them, though you can dodge ’em if you’re quick. Yes, one well placed shot will stop one. I’ve trained hard not to panic under fire and I tend to maintain my composure. Plate shooting competition works very well for just that. I can put 6 plates down @ 7 yards in less than 4 seconds, from a holster, while a man next to me is laying down fire of his own. It’s harder than you think. I tried IDPA, but find it unrealistic. Again, these are the best scenarios I can find outside of live fire training or being military.
        My training was through Master Chief Herschel Davis. He did firearms training & tactics for the Navy Seals @ Stennis Air Base. He put on a once-only handgun training there for a few of us civilians in the gun club. It doesn’t matter as I’m sure you’ll find fault with that and everything else I said somehow. Just know that my comments aren’t merely conjecture, but real life situations I’ve put myself through. I believe I’m qualified enough to hold my opinion.
        As far as your comments on my anatomy, I don’t understand. Maybe you’re just bent like that, and I won’t judge you for it.
        Idk what “the shield” is, but I’ll look it up. If it makes more sense, I’ll pursue it.
        My problem with you isn’t your opinions, it’s your bettter-than-thou attitude. It’s too hard to get through that to find the nuggets of good advice you may have. Your words are useless if nobody listens.

        Reply to this comment
        • Raven tactical June 9, 21:42

          I find faults with a article the written and thus people find me to be the asshole. I say carry what you want but I feel their is plenty of better options. The 1911 is a excellent range gun but why would I want a relic when plenty of other options are out their. To include w glock 40 or 20 10mm. 10mm trumps the 45 acp and truly is the one the better pistol calibers. It’s your life whe I dont care if you get yourself killed. I am just sick of the bad information that revolvers dont jam… they just need to clicked and run dry. That your only scenario with a carry gun is some 21 feet rule. That someone is going rob you alone . That racking shotguns put the fear of God in anyone….. that the ar15 makes a terrible self defense rifle.

          Reply to this comment
  13. headhunter June 9, 17:43

    Thank you for a most excellent article. Noted writer, Skeeter Skelton, liked the single action revolver and used what he described as the “load one bean, skip one, load four beans, cock the hammer and lower it” and you will be putting the firing pin in alignment with the empty chamber for old single action revolvers- those with no hammer block or transfer bar system. Light weight semi-autos need a firm grip (no “limp writing” ) because they rely on inertia (mass) to allow their slides to recoil and return to battery. There maybe hordes of evil-doers in a city, however if you’re rural- how many dogs will be turned loose because their owners can’t feed them. Spending my time in MN north and south and WI north central, thanks to the tree huggers grey wolves have exceeded their desired numbers, a mountain lion was spotted this week by the sheriff’s department 50 miles south of the Twin Cities, and northward the game cams pick up black bears and coyotes almost weekly. A 10mm autoloader or my choice a .357 or .44 magnum seems reasonable.

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